Australian Justine Damond shot dead by US police in Minneapolis

a reply to: Xcathdra

They are not the accused, they are a police officer in the employ of the state. Just because I accuse - and millions more - doesn't remove that fundamental point. Surely debriefing at the very least is required in any case? Do they not explain why the use of their firearm, let alone why the lack of use of their non-lethal weapons?

I think you know where I believe these due process rights can be shoved and I don't mean to be offensive personally to you, but this is an outrage and I am white hot with rage over it. If you've noticed this sentiment in the media and from what you've seen anywhere, really, it would not be generous to assume you can add much, much more to that. This is going to go one way and one way only or there will truly be trouble.

I honestly do not give a good god damn about the law anymore, I'd take this guy out myself and show him how to really use a weapon if I has the chance. He's a filthy, rotten, dirty scumbag and a murderer and I'll accept one path for this to follow and to hell with his due process and him as well.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Expensive? Recording times? Why can I as a consumer purchase a product that will record continuously for up to 14 hours? That's a figure pulled from the GoPro settings and recording times page. As for recording media, solid state storage has been a viable option for a while now, so that excuse also doesn't hold up.

I would wager outfitting all officers and vehicles with such recording equipment, hardened against abuse of course, would cost less than a lot of these investigations into wrongful shootings and whatever settlements arise from them. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not an expert on this topic, however as a public consumer I know what's available to me, I would like to think that departments can afford the same type of tech. If such tech doesn't exist, who wants to make some cash selling it to the various departments around the country?

I also note that you said technology can fail, I addressed this as well, malfunctions do happen and that's just a part of dealing with technology. However the would be liable if a root cause analysis was performed and the malfunction was not caused by the device itself or defective hardware.

You staff a few members of a different division (not affiliated with the department) to handle the media at the end of shift, they keep a chain of custody on the media, and warehouse it on the off chance it's needed again. The figures I pulled were for a 64 GB card, I can pick up a 256 GB card for a reasonable price right now, so 56 hours of recording roughly per card. A few cards per officer with centralized data pulls being done to a redundant server for storage and later retrieval if needed, with a retention policy of 36 months. The up-front cost isn't inconsequential, however I've dealt with mom and pop businesses that can manage the same on what I assure you is a smaller budget than most police departments have available to them.

Sorry, there is no excuse and no sufficient explanation for any of this to happen with the technology available to us at this point in time.

The story seems to back up what I tried to convey, earlier in the thread.

This is an example, a bad example, of the Policing philosophies and the attitude of the public, of the two country's.

In Oz you can generally walk straight up to a Police person, and start a conversation, even if you have been pulled over or whatever.
It seems in the US, you cannot move unless the Police officers tell you to, or heaven forbid.....I am quite certain that this has been drummed into Law Enforcement officers for at least the past 50 years......it is endemic of your society....the racial problems, the gun culture etc etc.

This does not exist in Australia, and she did as I expect any Aussie would do....when the cops turned up, she walked straight up to them....straight to their drivers door to talk to them, thats what we do........Little did she realise.

The shooter is to blame, maybe his Somalian background of war and hatred, had something to do with it...who knows.

Maybe he should be deported back "Home".

Either way, his life is now over for his "American Dream".

a reply to: GusMcDangerthing

They are the accused under US law.

a reply to: Hypntick

and what you buy as a consumer doesnt have / meet evidentiary / physical requirements. Things law enforcement need / are required to have are more expensive than their civilian counterparts and police budgets are tight as it is.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: GusMcDangerthing

They are the accused under US law.

Yes, well, I should think so.

originally posted by: GusMcDangerthing

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: GusMcDangerthing

They are the accused under US law.

Yes, well, I should think so.

Then why did you say otherwise in your post?

Ironic you are pissed because this lady died while at the same time advocating an action you find offensive.

As I said.. wait for the investigation and keep in mind the info we have is after the fact and is more complete than what the officers had at the time.

20/20 hindsight cant be used.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Evidence requirements? I work in information security and have to provide evidence to agencies for a variety of reasons. Some of these may be local law enforcement, some may be other government agencies. Provided proper date and time stamping, chain of custody, and other benchmarks are kept, it fits the requirements for evidence.

Establish policy and procedure of: Tech from company A validates the storage medium and performs a check on the recording device and provides documented logs (automated or otherwise), Tech from company A inserts the media into the device and secures the media from tampering (locks, etc.), officer A signs off on chain of custody that the media and camera they have received has been validated to be in working order by the tech from company A. Now if something happens during that time frame it is on the officer to ensure that chain of custody is not broken, and that any data collected is not compromised due to intentional means or neglect on the part of the officer. At end of shift, tech from company A signs back in the media and the camera into their control.

It's not a difficult process, and requires only that the officer not lose control or possession of their equipment. Slap encryption on the data and safeguards against tampering, and you're done. I assure you that whatever is captured in the event that it's needed will meet the requirements for admission of evidence.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: GusMcDangerthing

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: GusMcDangerthing

They are the accused under US law.

Yes, well, I should think so.

Then why did you say otherwise in your post?

Ironic you are pissed because this lady died while at the same time advocating an action you find offensive.

As I said.. wait for the investigation and keep in mind the info we have is after the fact and is more complete than what the officers had at the time.

20/20 hindsight cant be used.

I did not say otherwise in my post and I invite you to read it again and if you still are under the mistaken impression otherwise, to quote me and I'll explain myself to you more specifically.

It is not ironic to advocate for the punishment of cold-blooded murderers, which this despicable filth of a 'man' clearly is - at least not to me. You should continue to feel free to be outraged about the things that you find outrageous and I'll do the same here.

I and many, many others certainly will wait for the investigation to be conducted and completed and I'm very interested in what sort of result they come out with. I imagine this department and especially the murderer are quietly shtting themselves and they ought to be.

originally posted by: MisterSpock

...and frankly I don't give a damn.

Given whats on the line and such a sensitive topic.

"It runs on batteries" isn't good enough.

A larger battery pack, replaceable pack or whatever is needed...

It's easy to not give a damn when you're also not the person who has to carry it around, along with all the other things that officers are ordered to carry by other people who also don't give a damn.

I bet you'd be first in line to complain when the officers can't chase down bad guys anymore because they're carrying their own bodyweight in equipment.

a reply to: GusMcDangerthing


Guess it's a good thing you're not a cop then, since you want to do away w due process and just kill the guy

We're a nation of laws and we do not abandon them because emotions are high

That being said this guy should be sent up the river and felt the harsher punishment available, that is once all the facts come out in trial

That being said, I do think our justice system needs a serious revamping and the corruption weeded out. Just like the gov

originally posted by: EvillerBob

originally posted by: MisterSpock

...and frankly I don't give a damn.

Given whats on the line and such a sensitive topic.

"It runs on batteries" isn't good enough.

A larger battery pack, replaceable pack or whatever is needed...

It's easy to not give a damn when you're also not the person who has to carry it around, along with all the other things that officers are ordered to carry by other people who also don't give a damn.

I bet you'd be first in line to complain when the officers can't chase down bad guys anymore because they're carrying their own bodyweight in equipment.

Many of us carried recording equipment when deployed over seas

It's not a huge deal nor a lot of added weight

Just seems like an excuse not to....

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: GusMcDangerthing


Guess it's a good thing you're not a cop then, since you want to do away w due process and just kill the guy

We're a nation of laws and we do not abandon them because emotions are high

That being said this guy should be sent up the river and felt the harsher punishment available, that is once all the facts come out in trial

That being said, I do think our justice system needs a serious revamping and the corruption weeded out. Just like the gov

Why on earth would I ever choose to be the scum of the earth? What use are laws if the law makers ignore them or create them with malicious agenda and the law enforcers flout them?

I'm honestly just wondering what the spark will be that eventually lights the tinderbox. For me it was a few years ago that I would have been prepared to go down guns blazing, when there are enough of the likes of me and the balance shifts, things won't go well for the cops or for anyone. I'm not kidding around when I try to impress on people that this is a serious thing, beyond a simple murder of a civilian - as though that wasn't enough of a serious issue in itself.

originally posted by: GusMcDangerthing
a reply to: Xcathdra

I think you know where I believe these due process rights can be shoved and I don't mean to be offensive personally to you, but this is an outrage and I am white hot with rage over it.

And this is what makes due process even more important. People "white hot with rage" deciding that their own anger is enough reason to justify whatever happens next.

You are actually the biggest reason why due process exists, and needs to exist.

a reply to: EvillerBob

You don't think they ought to be treated in the manner they treat us?

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
Many of us carried recording equipment when deployed over seas

It's not a huge deal nor a lot of added weight

Just seems like an excuse not to....

I am entirely in support for bodycams that run for the duration of the shift. If there's a bodycam with the storage space and battery life, fantastic. That is genuinely useful and relevant to their role.

My issue is with people openly saying that they don't give a damn about practicalities. The police are there to do a job, which doesn't include being a mule to carry the thousand-and-one gadgets that single-interest groups all declare to be the most vital thing ever. They tend to be the same people who think that all police officers should be psychiatrists, nurses, teachers, social workers, psychics, prophets, and taxi-drivers, all rolled up into one poor officer.

When you get to the stage where the police officers need to use load-bearing vests to support the weight of all the equipment they are mandated to carry on their foot patrol of a quiet city highstreet, there's a problem.

originally posted by: GusMcDangerthing
a reply to: EvillerBob

You don't think they ought to be treated in the manner they treat us?

No. I think they should be afforded due process. It's not even for their sake, It's for our sake as a civilisation. It becomes even more important in highly emotive cases, because those are the cases where we are most at risk of letting our inner barbarians take control.

The "brothers" have closed ranks.

I see "due process" being bandied about by the PD sympathisers.

How was this Lady afforded "due process" .. regardless of county or Country.

Tell us how this could possibly be jusified as an action a Policeman should take .

The shooters silence is doing damage ... more damage to United States Police forces. As such, the cops involved in this thread are not helping.

Ie: No sympathy for the vicims family along with an acceptance of silence.

originally posted by: EvillerBob

originally posted by: GusMcDangerthing
a reply to: EvillerBob

You don't think they ought to be treated in the manner they treat us?

No. I think they should be afforded due process. It's not even for their sake, It's for our sake as a civilisation. It becomes even more important in highly emotive cases, because those are the cases where we are most at risk of letting our inner barbarians take control.

Well, you may think that and all the while barbarians like me will consider taking control of what you apparently believe to be civilized behavior.

The horse has bolted and you are grasping on to something which no longer matters.

You need to start looking at the composition of the Minneapolis Police Department (starting with their boss ... the Mayor).

Elizabeth A. "Betsy" Hodges a member of the Minnesota Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party
Janee Harteau Minneapolis’ first openly gay police chief
Assistant Police Chief Medaria Arradondo

And ... oh oh ... "I heard a loud sound." Since when has that ever taken on justification for shooting someone to death? They're making s# up ... and people are buying into this effed-up narrative ... just like I said. They're trying to use time to kill this story.

What story? The MPD isn't representative of the Minneapolis population at large. This is what stinks in this story. Who put a gun into the hands of a Somalian Immigrant ... without the people having a chance to know who he was and what his family values were for a couple of generations??

These people are a bunch of whack jobs!!