Justice Department crackdown targets fraudulent opioid treatments

a reply to: tothetenthpower

I tore tendons in one of my hands a few years back, at the time I was an operations manager for a shipping company.

I took ibuprofen twice in the three months I had to go through therapy. My reasoning was I wanted to heal, I needed to know if I was doing something that was stressing my injury
I have a high pain tolerance so that helps, but ibuprofen genuinely helps me (probably because I take it maybe once a year).

I avoided surgery by going through the therapy I did, and my surgeon who I thankfully didn't have to use attributed it to me correctly handling the injury, and also using my hand still and not babying it. Using it helped fuse the tendons back, but since I didn't mask the pain I was able to tell the correct and incorrect ways to use it.

CriticalStinker

One of the problems with long term opiate use is it makes the nerves raw for lack of better terminology. If you get to the glorious day where you get to get off them, things like getting our of bed can be excruciating.


This is when I kneel on/at the altar of BigPHarma™ and get back on Ambien™ so I can forget that I am in pain...

a reply to: JimNasium

Have you tried melatonin? Many people love it. I'm not a fan though, it makes me have incredibly long vivid dreams that leave me waking more stressed than rested.

Everyone is different though, and you don't sound like a stranger to finding what works for you.

I have natural approaches to any ailments I face.

When sick my drink of choice is half gingerale, half club soda and a generous amount of sliced ginger.

Usually I don't get sick though, about once every four years. To prevent it when I can feel something coming on I take colloidal silver, vitamin c, zinc, capsaicin and a high fiber diet. It works like a charm.

Capsaicin also helps with pain and swelling both internally and topically.... (legal disclosure, side effects may include a hurt butt hole if taken internally

How about we do something about how it is legal for pharmaceutical companies to advertise directly to consumers in this country? NAAAAAH... That idea (implemented by every country in the world save two) sounds too radical.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm always dumbfounded by that. I can remember cigarette commercials on TV as a kid and those are now verboten but the legal dealers can push their wares durin prime time? Makes zero sense to me.

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm always dumbfounded by that. I can remember cigarette commercials on TV as a kid and those are now verboten but the legal dealers can push their wares durin prime time? Makes zero sense to me.

When I first heard about it my mouth dropped for a full five minutes. Especially since only the US and New Zealand are the only two countries that allow it. Something tells me that we aren't leading the way by bucking the majority though...

Can't stand him either. We will have to wait and see if it's real or not when the prosecution of the manufactures begins with the states. The feds should choose to get involved and the fda should be gutted. Scientific standards need to be re installed and oversights without conflicts of interest put in place.

400 is good but 10's of thousands caused this problem. Let's hope it goes more than symbolic.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

My wife who has an interesting perspective on those stuff from her work in the medical field as an RN (Works 2 full time jobs,1 for Hospice and the other for an insurance company dealing with patients on long term managed care) and then throw in the 3rd perspective from me being in pain management for many, many years now from wrecking myself in the Army, anyway we sit there and laugh at these commercials. Especially when they go through the list of side effects that seem far worse than the condition the medication is supposed to help with. My favorite is one of the newer commercials for a medication to be prescribed to people like me on long term opiates to deal with the constipation from the opiates. My pain management doc actually tried to push that one on me a few months ago and I said no thanks. I find that altering my diet and activity level works just fine and there's no need y add yet another prescription to my queue at the pharmacy. I already get treated like a savage as it is.

Nothing like a snooty pharmacist looking down her nose at me in judgement based on how she perceives me because of how I look (shaved head, beard, tattoos) and the scrips I get. Little does she know that if I wanted, I could be taking much higher doses of these medications but I personally limit what I let him write for me. I take what I need to to get through the day with a modicum of functionality and what I take, within context, isn't that high of a dose.

Sorry for the long winded and rambling rant born of frustration. The state I live in has some insane laws that make doctors very wary of prescribing these meds. Tons of paperwork for them, every scrip is trackable from time it's written to the time it's filled and when I pick it up and who picked it up via scanning of the persons license. I randomly get drug tested to make sure I'm not overusing any of the scrips and also to make sure I'm not taking any natural substances that could lesson my dependence on prescription meds.

The whole set up is insane and it all stems from a democratic assemblyman from Long Island who didn't take care of his unused meds and his teen age son got ahold of them and OD'd. I feel for him but it's not the doctors fault or the fault of any other patients properly using their medication. It's the fault of one parent who neglected basic due diligence of his own based on naïveté.

For me, it's a double edged sword. I totally get that there are people doctor shopping and gaming the system. In the end though, there are people who legitimately need the meds and who use them responsibly but too many of us are having a difficult time being treated or even taken seriously. And the vast majority of pain management doctors who are taking new psrosrent prescribing anything. Instead, they're pushing all of these fancy new injections and steroids. I've tried that route and received none of the positive effects yet all of the bad side effects. Giving steroids to someone with limited mobility just makes them put on weight. Took me 3 years to drop the weight I put on from the last round of steroids. The plus of that was I was able to avoid spinal surgery in my neck, so there's that I guess.

I got really lucky finding the pain management doctor I've been seeing the last year and a half. He got his PhD in neuroscience before deciding to get his MD so when I walked into my first appointment with Svante Paabo's book on Neanderthals detailing how they were able to recover viable genetic material he spent the next hour bull s# in with me about science and genetics and after going over my medical history and writing down my list of leds I didn't want to take and what the max dosages of other meds I would take were, he realized I wasn't some sketchy dope fiend lol. Not everyone is that lucky. My biggest hassle rt now is my insurance company who keeps upping the cost of my copays and refusing to pay for stuff. But that's a whole separate can of worms from the OP and topic of opiates

a reply to: peter vlar

The idiocracy around drugs is pretty infuriating. I have gone to some BJJ tournaments in Colorado where the athletes have fully accepted cbd oils and other forms of cannabis in various recovery and pain management tools. It makes me angry thinking about frankly.

The idiocracy will go from not picking up on major perscription numbers running through small town pharmacies l but instead make you fill out paper work and poop in a bag, if you can, otherwise try this.

Ps I also believe that cannabis should be better controlled, it may not be addictive but you should know what's in it and how it was made/grown. Huge mistakes were made in this area as well.

a reply to: luthier

I agree for the most part. I think your concerns with cannabis are certainly warranted but I know that in states that allow medical, depending on where you obtain it, there can be very strict controls and regulations in place. The other option is to grow your own in areas where it's permitted. Then you know exactly what you're growing, what you're feeding the babies and whether or not any harmful pesticides are being used. I don't know much about Colorado and Oregon but because I bought property in Maine and plan on building and moving there in 2 years, the dispensaries are pretty tightly regulated and subject to inspections and oversight. The same will be true of commercial growers supplying the recently passed recreational aspects. I don't want to get too specific and cross the thin line of T&C here

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Way to go Justice Department and Jeff Sessions!

Draining the swamp!

a reply to: peter vlar

Reminds me of that Jeff Foxworthy bit where he is talking about all the side effects for trying to treat "itchy watery eyes". Pretty funny.

As for your other point, I hear you. The abusers just make everything worse for those who really need it. That's why I support medical cannabis. The abusers and the ones who need it can co-exist equally since no one will die from it. The worst effect of pot is passing out with Doritos crumbs on your chest while sitting on the couch.

a reply to: luthier

Ps I also believe that cannabis should be better controlled, it may not be addictive but you should know what's in it and how it was made/grown. Huge mistakes were made in this area as well.

There are tight quality controls in place for most areas who have done legislation correctly. Colorado's system is pretty robust for quality control. California a little less, but it's due to lack of enforcement, not the law being junk.

Here in Canada we had already established very strict rules and regulations on production and manufacture once we passed the medical laws a little over 10 years ago.

And really, there's no trade secrets in growing Cannabis. It's pretty straight forward. Sure I can do some fancy things with light colours, grafting strains etc, but all that takes is experience.

~Tenth

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: luthier

Ps I also believe that cannabis should be better controlled, it may not be addictive but you should know what's in it and how it was made/grown. Huge mistakes were made in this area as well.

There are tight quality controls in place for most areas who have done legislation correctly. Colorado's system is pretty robust for quality control. California a little less, but it's due to lack of enforcement, not the law being junk.

Here in Canada we had already established very strict rules and regulations on production and manufacture once we passed the medical laws a little over 10 years ago.

And really, there's no trade secrets in growing Cannabis. It's pretty straight forward. Sure I can do some fancy things with light colours, grafting strains etc, but all that takes is experience.

~Tenth

This is where your wrong.

How can you know what kind of fertilizer was used say for edibles? Still some trace nasties in there? Are they miracle growing and cutting corners on concentrates since the buds are not seen directly?

Are the edibles tested? Can you eat them in a shop and then take home? Colorado has adapted well but they ran into issues with concentrates and edibles as well. Some tested and served were full of nasties. How about mold?

Maybe in Canada but I can assure you in the US (at least in my state VA) doctors will try everything BUT prescribe pain medications. Only doctors trained in pain management are even allowed to prescribe schedule 2 narcotics. I know his because I've been under pain management for 8 years due to an inflamed spinal cord. I have to drive 6 hours to see my doctor and it takes 3 months or more to even get an appointment with a pain specialist.

There is a batch of new legislation which neither my doctor or pharmacy can even tell me if they are in effect that will eliminate paper scripts, limit prescriptions to 14 days, mandatory pill counting when you see the dr, random drug testing and bunch of other crap. People can demonize pain meds all they want but I can assure you I wouldn't have any kind of life (or even be alive) without them.

I have a great doctor but he is so overwhelmed with government paperwork and afraid of the DEA that he has changed dramatically. He's a different person and seems completely distracted. With all these new laws it can only force more doctors out of treating pain and make it harder for patients to even get treatment.

This is all because of people overdosing on illegal opiates including heroin and chinese-manufactured fentanyl. The rise in overdoses follows the curve of heroin use directly. Presciption drugs are not the problem aside from those who sell them just to pay their bills instead of treating their pain. This includes a lot of veterans. There's another graph that year for year matches the rise in opiate use with the number of vets returning from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

a reply to: luthier

How can you know what kind of fertilizer was used say for edibles? Still some trace nasties in there? Are they miracle growing and cutting corners on concentrates since the buds are not seen directly?

Because they must keep detailed logs of everything used to grow their products?

It's pretty easy to fact check them. I work in this industry, I have for a very very long time, I know the ins and outs of quality control, not only imposed by the government, but imposed by business owners who want quality product.

re the edibles tested? Can you eat them in a shop and then take home?

Actually, all edibles have to be licensed through Health Canada here, there are even more strict quality control practices in place where edibles are concerned. Far more than just growing flower.

So no, I'm not wrong. I just happen to have all the proper information from doing research for the last 20+ years and working with these people. Yes, there are places that do bad, like OrganiGram for example in my home province, they were caught using pesticides and other chemicals that ended up making some people sick.

It was found quickly and rectified quickly.

~Tenth

a reply to: tothetenthpower
Once Monsanto patents the GMO seed then it will be prescribed as medicine.

It'll be a completely different beast mind you, and somehow magically become addictive. Monsanto won't know why, of course.

originally posted by: Flesh699
a reply to: tothetenthpower
Once Monsanto patents the GMO seed then it will be prescribed as medicine.

It'll be a completely different beast mind you, and somehow magically become addictive. Monsanto won't know why, of course.

People have the wrong idea bout all that. You can't patent MJ. You can't even patent strains you've made yourself. I've tried, it's not possible.

And as far as genetically modified crops are concerned, everything you eat is genetically modified. Organic foods use just as much pesticides and herbicides and insecticides as anybody else.

Besides, big companies won't be doing very high quality product. It will be volume vs quality. The average Joe isn't going to become a connoisseur. He's just gonna buy a pack of Camel Joints once a week.

~Tenth

I just read this scare piece from NPR titled 'Extreme' Opioid Use And Doctor Shopping Still Plague Medicare

Buried 2/3rds of the way down is this:

Moreover, last week's report from the CDC shows that painkiller use is ticking downward after years of explosive growth.

www.npr.org... _medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20170713

Despite declining use it's an "epidemic". Maybe in some places but I don't know anyone with that problem. Agencies like the DEA need problems to keep their current budgets or get increases. I realize there is a problem with people overdosing but the solutions they put forward tend to do nothing but create more problems - thus more need for government intervention. It's a cycle of problem-reaction-solution where government is usually the start of the problems.

Eta: if they wanted to solve the problem they would increase spending for treatment which many can't get access to.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

You just hit the nail on the head here. That's the largest issue, justification for increased funding for agencies involved in the failed war on some drugs. Every year, their ability to operate in many states declines as medical and now recreational, are being legalized. More money goes to the states that are able to tax cannabis and less money is going towards federal enforcement agencies like the DEA and down the line, less money is for gmto he funneled towards for profit prisons (which I find pretty vulgar and egregious when there are minimum occupancy quotas). So a crisis becomes manufactured and the public is easily assuaged by voting for politicians who promise to allot more funds for enforcement and jails when its a medical issue that can be solved with far fewer tax dollars when you put people into treatment instead of college for criminals. People are more worrried about job security and donors than they are with doing what's right for the citizenry.