The Vertical Plane by Ken Webster - Is this proof of Time manipulation and travel or just a story?

originally posted by: sputniksteve
a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

It is refreshing and nostalgic to be discussing the topic again. You guys know me well enough to not be too concerned when I suddenly maniacally start making grandiose claims. In hind sight, sure I would probably word things differently. From my perspective though, it's not about me being right it is about this journey that I am on personally unrelated to TVP, and the journey we are all taking together and individually with TVP. I am well past looking or feeling foolish, coming off as a lunatic, etc. I am way past any point where I can make excuses for the thoughts happening in my mind or play it off as casual mental health disorder. I have 1 speed only, I am on or I am off. It is all or nothing in everything I do in life, and always has been. I am certain I have shaken a few things loose inside the computer that shouldn't have been shaken, but I think there were some wires crossed to begin with that shouldn't have been crossed. I mean I don't suspect I know, its genetic and unavoidable. It all just is what it is in the good and the bad.

I also don't feel like it has been under my control most of the time, and definitely not yesterday. Ideas come through my fingers onto this page but that doesn't mean that they are all due to my hard work or insight, a lot of the hard stuff just seems to come and when I pay attention I can pick out parts that seem to fit. Now I feel like I am talking my way backwards so enough with disclaimers, y'all know the score.

I am going to take the responsible route of seriously contemplating how I move forward from here, because it is deeply personal and affects far more than just myself. It would be putting information on the web that isn't mine to put, and could do irreparable damage to people I love the most which would obviously be counter intuitive to a love story, and my life at least has always tried to be a love story. The good news is I do for the first time have a very specific idea where to look for the book, and it is a flat our right or wrong thing. If it is not there, I am wrong. If it is, we go from there. I will be very clear though that it is just a suspicion, but one built on a solid enough foundation for me to flip my lid after 2 years.

I don't think there is any harm in declaring that the book is no longer in my house, and there was an almost immediate affect from removing it from next to my bed where it has sat for the last 2 years. Even if it is placebo, it's powerful placebo. I did get some rest this morning actually which was pretty surprising. So far this is my homes best day ever, in a long time. We desperately needed the relief I can assure you that.

I also think that if we did an real deal roll call, we would find we are eternally short 1 response. That part I am afraid, is a tragedy.

Being a part of this discussion, has been great. I feel fortunate to be able to explore the mystery surrounding the book. I have had other experiences with material that drew my aspirations. The power of belief and how we grow that way, are awe-inspiring.

Romantically, reminds me of finding one's Muse.

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

Whatever it is, I am just along for the ride and too dumb to keep my mouth shut.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Reminds me of a saying, 'Speech is silver but silence is golden". There's no harm in silently looking for input. Unusual experiences are challenging to talk about. Often life itself will fill in the blanks, to sincere interests.

The way I look at it, there is no harm in exploring possibilities with pure intent and caution. I feel that's a big part of learning more about that side of life. A stubborn nature like that, and the curiosity to match fuels that drive for me.

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

In that case I will never be a Golden Boy. I assume that is where the phrase "Silver Tongued" comes from?

I really like the idea of propagating ideas.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Idk, about silver tongued, I get the impression it's a reference to those with the gift of the gab.

Lol, I had something a little more naughty in mind,

""How silver-sweet sound lovers' tongues by night, Like softest music to attending ears!"

Turns my crank!

Seriously though, I think science without a soul is rather cold. Science at its worst attempts to put mother nature on a rack, use vain machinations, and make her scream. All the while, she whispers her secrets quietly in our ears, guiding those with the patience to hear.

I get kinda hot, thinking about what Muse mean to me

lol, back to earth, I love exploring possibilities and ideas.

I've thought about this, it's been marinating in the background while I go about things.

I thought about maybe talking a little about placebo, I open to looking at this from all angles.

The thread makes me wonder if others perceive things the way I do.

The fractal perspective I was trying to describe, strikes me as a way to reference the energy of a situation.

It's just putting it out there, in a way that makes sense. These kinds of topics can get away from us.

Thinking about the power of belief, and placebo reminds me of some books.

One was a sort of grimoire that was thought to be fabricated. I found it interesting, and having lent it out, didn't get it back. I also am a fan of the Don Juan books, I got a lot out of them. Carlos story I questioned much harder, further down the line. I feel that investigating, and exploring ideas and concepts make us more familiar with the energy they represent. People draw inspiration from various places.

I think ideas propagate often as a function of their use.

My wife likes to say I have a "sweet mouth", which I think is similar to "silver tongued". I certainly have the gift for gab, sometimes not so much a gift. I can talk a good game, really good game, but especially in the past my actions didn't always align which was a serious problem. I am sure that particular deficit of character still rears it's ugly head every once in a while unintentionally but it is something I try to be cognizant of. That doesn't mean that I have stopped "talking sweet" but I make sure my actions align. I try to be more thoughtful of what I say, even if this thread doesn't go very far towards showing that change. I kind of consider this as neutral ground though where I am free to really be myself, and express myself in ways I would not be capable of otherwise.

I have been thinking a lot of about everything that I am doing or have done revolving around this particular story. It's sometimes hard for me to believe the change I have seen in my own thoughts and behavior in such a short time. Not that they are all positive or that im so awesome, but rather just such an abrupt departure from what and who used to be in such a relatively short period of time. There have been times where I was happy with what currently was, and stated that I didn't need to know all the answers anymore or even ask the questions. Maybe for that period of time it was true but I think my desire for both is now healthier than it was when it was brand new.

That was all rambling and I am preoccupied by something I can't put my finger on. I had some strange dreams last night that I think I am still subconsciously processing. I intended to try and start a conversation about the digital time capsule concept and speaking directly to a future generation through electronic media. It has been on my mind a lot the last week but I am feeling insufficiently motivated at the very moment. I am frustrated that the few people I try and explain it to IRL lack the interest in the concept that I hold. It is essentially writing an autobiography, just over a long period of time and accessible to anyone at any time, any where. It's probably just not as significant as I am making it out to be. Or maybe I am the only person that isn't the same person all the time and everyone else has nothing to explain. I don't know. Lol that probably should have occurred to me before right this second.

originally posted by: sputniksteve
My wife likes to say I have a "sweet mouth", which I think is similar to "silver tongued". I certainly have the gift for gab, sometimes not so much a gift. I can talk a good game, really good game, but especially in the past my actions didn't always align which was a serious problem. I am sure that particular deficit of character still rears it's ugly head every once in a while unintentionally but it is something I try to be cognizant of. That doesn't mean that I have stopped "talking sweet" but I make sure my actions align. I try to be more thoughtful of what I say, even if this thread doesn't go very far towards showing that change. I kind of consider this as neutral ground though where I am free to really be myself, and express myself in ways I would not be capable of otherwise.

It's all just practice. I have felt much the same before. What you mention about attempting to make your actions align, is a valuable insight. I believe the better we align the various aspects of ourselves, the easier it is to reach our goals.

Should be organic though, like something to develop in a natural fashion.

originally posted by: sputniksteve
I have been thinking a lot of about everything that I am doing or have done revolving around this particular story. It's sometimes hard for me to believe the change I have seen in my own thoughts and behavior in such a short time. Not that they are all positive or that im so awesome, but rather just such an abrupt departure from what and who used to be in such a relatively short period of time. There have been times where I was happy with what currently was, and stated that I didn't need to know all the answers anymore or even ask the questions. Maybe for that period of time it was true but I think my desire for both is now healthier than it was when it was brand new.

All part of the journey. Confronting the unknown gives us a chance to grow spiritually. For what it's worth, sometimes I feel like I'm walking around a different planet. It's amazing how perspectives can change. A zest for learning, keeps things fresh.

One of my favourite quotes comes to mind:

“We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
Through the unknown, remembered gate
When the last of earth left to discover
Is that which was the beginning;
At the source of the longest river
The voice of the hidden waterfall
And the children in the apple-tree
Not known, because not looked for
But heard, half-heard, in the stillness
Between two waves of the sea.”

T.S. Eliot

originally posted by: sputniksteve
That was all rambling and I am preoccupied by something I can't put my finger on. I had some strange dreams last night that I think I am still subconsciously processing. I intended to try and start a conversation about the digital time capsule concept and speaking directly to a future generation through electronic media. It has been on my mind a lot the last week but I am feeling insufficiently motivated at the very moment. I am frustrated that the few people I try and explain it to IRL lack the interest in the concept that I hold. It is essentially writing an autobiography, just over a long period of time and accessible to anyone at any time, any where. It's probably just not as significant as I am making it out to be. Or maybe I am the only person that isn't the same person all the time and everyone else has nothing to explain. I don't know. Lol that probably should have occurred to me before right this second.

That's a cool idea. I wouldn't worry about getting it out there too quick. I like the book side to it, I use waybackmachine sort of like that, it's great seeing my old posts.I don't take a lot pictures.

Writing a book is on my bucket list, it's fascinating the way relationships can mesh. In a creative fashion, I think that it's a good way to get ideas out there.

It has always been on mine too. I currently have some really good ideas that I would like to immortalize but I am either too lazy or too busy. This thread is my main writing outlet in life and I probably abuse that fact to some degree. My son asked me on Friday night what the story of our family was. I made up a bunch of sh*t on the spot that had us both smiling big. It's terribly historically inaccurate at the moment but I only have a rough outline written. I think most of my writing is pretty niche. If you don't have a reason to care about it, it's easy to not care about it. That's been good for me to this point I think. I don't really show anything I write to most people I know so most people ignore it and I don't have to deal with criticisms which may destroy me. I like to imagine all my creations only being found after I am gone and cannot hear the words.

Just a hunch; I would suggest you hold the answer in your hand.

Books are like that.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Idk, maybe I'm procrastinating with my book idea.I tend to picture writing it further down the road.I like the idea of writing more formally as a hobby in retirement. Who know's when that will be? For now I take notes and hope I get around to it sooner rather then later.

In the meantime, our community here gives me a chance to express myself.

I like reading your perspective here and in other threads. I wouldn't go too hard on yourself, ATS is very eclectic. Don't underestimate what you bring to a place.

Idk, your second to last sentence is unclear to me. Not sure if you have your writing in general in mind, online, offline or both. I'll bring up topics/ideas offline with others depending on the context of what's going on at the moment or who it is.

Sharing my online writing offline, poems, journals not so much, it really depends on who, I find that more personal. I am a bit reserved like that, having had some large misunderstandings. Really depends on how comfortable I am being myself around them. The more esoteric stuff I keep to myself unless they have a background in that sort of thing.

a reply to: sputniksteve

I don't know how I've missed the additional posting in this thread, I guess I haven't been as diligent about coming to ATS as I once was. And I guess I haven't been as involved as I once was in this thread because I never saw the google doc you posted. Oh well, still interested and reading fwiw, just not much to contribute.

One thing I've been wondering though, have you noticed any strange things happening at your house over the last couple years? Just wondering...

Something to think about there Nobody. Let me digest it.

DFRNT: I am mostly talking about people IRL and my writing. Frankly outside of ATS but online I don't expect many people at all to read what I write, and don't put any effort into getting them to. It's just whatever, but in a positive way I guess. My ATS stuff is usually weird enough that most people leave it alone unless it really interests them. I come from a family of authors and serious readers, so to introduce a story to them you need to really come correct or they won't be impressed. Most of my shyness is just an inability to take criticism though. I am working on that.

Engineer: You aren't alone, and this all just popped up over last weekend so you aren't too far behind. Yes, things at my house since I brought that book home were not what I think they should have been. Not really poltergeist stuff, and definitely not as weird as TVP, but some "seeing things that aren't supposed to be there" by myself and sometimes my son. Wife hasn't reported anything, but she is a different topic all together.

Suffice to say, I swear to god and everything I hold dear, once I put the book outside of my house it was like a switch flipping. I can't explain it, truly. It sounds ridiculous and I did it off a hunch based on a post Nobody made in a different thread while speaking to someone else. It's a bit of a magic thread though as many of us know though so I am not surprised it all happened. For that matter, the last couple pages are paramount to this story in my opinion. The 2 cannot or at least should not be separated at this point.

I have a feeling you have something to say on this particular topic Eng, and I am dying to hear it.

Nobody: Did you understand the implications for this thread by sharing what you have been sharing? I most certainly did, immediately. All of this came together when it came together because of that thread. I was completely stuck with nowhere to go until those pages. It hit me like a brick wall.

I am happy to point it out for anyone not able to follow along, but where would be the fun in that? www.abovetopsecret.com...

Of course maybe there is just coincidence going on and I am still off base, but I have to start somewhere. If it's placebo, it's powerful placebo and it's taking me somewhere, and I want to find out where.

Many pages and probably a couple years ago I know I made at least one post discussing the possibility of one to write them self into TVP story, since it was currently on going and wide open for discovery and intrigue. I think that was an egotistical statement but I am not sure it was inaccurate. I didn't mean it necessarily in the way I portrayed it but rather in the grand scheme of things. Or maybe I did mean it how I portrayed it, I don't remember anymore honestly. In either case it got me thinking in a sort of fashion about the future and how we communicate with it in our posts and digital presence. This is not unique as people have obviously been writing books for thousands of years that accomplish the same thing but I do think the advent of the digital age puts this on a whole new level.

I don't think my idea is unique or special, but I do think it is poignant and relevant to the present in a way that most people are not picking up or considering. I simply mean the all inclusive people, the planet over. I feel compelled to work on this in a way I have not ever felt compelled to do anything else in my life. I have NEVER done anything with the future in mind, unless it was preserving enough grass for tomorrow. Sadly. So that in itself is unique for me, but it is the compulsion and pull from my normal lane that makes me so interested in the idea I guess. Or it's the reason I keep up with it in the face of rejection and misunderstanding in a way I am not capable of doing with the "more important" parts of being a grown up and acting like one. As a side note, for the first time I am extending that to my financial security and home life for once and it feels good.

In any case this compulsion is parallel to my and our investigation of TVP. Maybe TVP is the catalyst or the other way around, I don't know. It at least made me recognize that this idea is possible on a much grander scale than I had previously considered. I am starting to take it very seriously, posting more updates to my sub and doing live streams. It is all just for preservation of information for way down the line. That doesn't mean it is in isolation until it is "recognized" or "needed" (if that will ever be the case I don't know) but it isn't about the "present" use of any of the information. The stream isn't for being watched live, it's for my son or daughter to watch in 20 years. The online posts aren't even necessarily for my kids in 20 years but my grand kids in 60 years.

It's also not all selfless. There is a two-fold objective in mind for me. One is just the propagation of ideas I think are important, and that my children aren't old enough to comprehend currently. I don't want them to be lost to time though, or be forgotten. If the future brings a reality in which I am not in it, or not in it for as long as I intend I want to solidify these ideas in a way that they can be retrieved and read with the proper frame of mind and background in life experiences I think is necessary to utilize them. The second fold is to try and explain myself, and show the side of me that my family and often times friends don't get to see or aren't aware exists. In many ways the people reading this thread know me better than anyone alive or dead. I have made many poor choices in my life and hurt people in ways that are hard to understand for me and them both. I selfishly want to go on record as someone better than that, and make amends in a way. I don't know if it will matter or not, but I think it is worth the effort. I really believe in the relationships and people that I have and love and think they are important enough to try anyway.

When I was 14 or 15 years old I embarrassingly made a completely offhand comment to a cousin of mine. It was late at night and he was dropping me off at my grandmas house after a night of hanging out and catching a buzz. As I was getting out of the car I simply said "I am going to have an event in my 30's that is like Jesus". That was it, I didn't explain anything else and my cousin looked at me very strangely without commenting. I brought this up 20+ years later and he didn't remember it thank God, but I certainly did and was still embarrassed by it. I didn't mean that I was the chosen son of God or anything like that, but rather that my life would be disrupted in a way that was comparable to Jesus starting the whole Jesus Son of God epic. While I chose a rather poor example, it was absolutely true. My life changed so dramatically and drastically that I never in a million years could have predicted things would happen the way they happened. We are talking scale here in this comparison, nothing else. I want to make sure that is very clear. I have no illusions about who or what I am. That's not true probably but you get it.

In my early 20's I used to tell my room mates in college that I would marry a Mexican woman who would treat me like sh_t. That wasn't my goal or fetish or anything, I had zero history dating anyone of Mexican descent nor the ethnicity that my wife actually is. The point being, I was mostly right. Again not completely right but so damn close it makes me wonder. Having said that, it's a really unfair thing to say about my wife and I don't mean that she really treats me like sh_t. It is complicated as marriages normally are. The times she has treated me that way I deserved it so I am not saying this to bag on her, at all.

Neither of those examples are extraordinary or indicative of my ability to tell the future. They could have easily just influenced my actions subconsciously and I acted my way toward making those predictions correct. I have no idea and don't worry too much about it. I only bring it up because this compulsion I have to document parts of my life for my ancestors feels to me the same as those predictions I made. I knew at the time I made them I was right, I just didn't think about it afterwards because it was foregone in my mind. I know this project will pay off, I just don't know exactly how. I don't know if it is all related to TVP, but it certainly was an important part of me fleshing the idea out and taking action on it.

In my heart of hearts, my absolute bottom truth, is that I will not achieve anything spectacular or extraordinary in my life. I won't be celebrated. I do believe whole heartedly however that I am setting the stage for someone else to really make an impact, and a big one, and that what I am doing by recording these ideas and concepts is creating the base. I believe this with everything I am and am willing to bet everything I have on it. That's a lot of pressure to put on someone else, but what can I do about it?

a reply to: sputniksteve

Hey, thanks for the reply. I had a feeling you probably have had stuff going on. I have in the past. Have you read Jeff Ritzmann's thread "Me and "Them"- Alien Experiences"? I don't know, you might have posted in it. I read it back when I first joined and then I just re-read it when Jeff passed away recently. His experiences are with UFOs but it's relevant I think.
The more attention we pay to them the more they pay to us...
I can definitely confirm that this has been true in my life. At a young age it was the poltergeist stuff and later in life I saw a couple UFOs. I think all this strange stuff is a part of the same otherworldly thing if you will.

Anyway, that's a really interesting thread. If you haven't read it you should.

a reply to: wtbengineer

I did read it at least when it happened, but I haven't read it in quite a while. Jeffs experience was pretty eye opening for me, and attracted some interesting characters to discuss the phenomenon. That was really my introduction to the concept and Vallee's work as well. I will go back over it again with some hindsight

a reply to: sputniksteve

I figured you had probably read it. It was eye opening for me too. I didn't think about the fact that I probably read Jeff's thread before I had really read a lot of Vallee, and when I re-read it recently I was surprised that I had forgotten about it. If that makes sense.

Anyway, about TVP, if it weren't for the poltergeist stuff that happened along with it I might not have lumped it in to this bucket. But that alone makes me think there's more to it than people talking across time. There are so many tales of strangeness that I've read about that have the same feeling for me. Like it's all part of something bigger, something behind a veil that we're not getting a good look at. Kind of like the Wizard of Oz...

Good morning sputniksteve, please check your u2u's when you have a few minutes.

Hi, wtbengineer, good to see you posting.

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

Hey thanks, good to be back here. Hopefully this thread stays alive for a while...

a reply to: wtbengineer

Thinking over the TVP, covers alot of ground. It's challenging trying to narrow down facets to discuss. Lots of ideas have come up in this discussion.

I tried figuring out what happened in Canada in 1986. I was looking through online copies of National Geographic from then, but nothing stood out. I got the impression that it would have been something to do with science or an unusual phenomena of some kind.