The Vertical Plane by Ken Webster - Is this proof of Time manipulation and travel or just a story?

Hi everyone, I just joined so I could post in this thread. I read the book last year, and I read the whole thread last summer. I find the story fascinating, and I am also very interested in some of the concepts that have been discussed in this thread such as the nature of consciousness. Something made me think of the story again, so I came back to it. I'm glad to see that there has been more discussion recently.

I just wanted to point out something that I noticed in the book. It's probably just a typo and not relevant at all, but on the off chance I thought I would mention it anyway. On page 144 it says that "On Saturday 27th May the sheriff wrote describing how Lukas behaved in court during the trial". That date stood out to me because the year is 1985, and I know that the 27th of May was a Monday.
I thought I would point it out just in case. I haven't checked any other dates, that one just stood out to me.

a reply to: LookingGlassMilk

Welcome to the conversation! That is an interesting point to make and I am not sure what to make of that.

Ok now I reread I think I understand. That statement is one being made from Tomas time rather than in 1985. It would be interesting to try and see a calender from 15xx and see if it would match up.

What if everthing that will ever happen has not only already happened, but already happened for an infinite amount of times. The entire birth and death of the universe over and over again for so long that it gives eternity anxiety. Every iteration and combination and creation of every event to exist. Over and over again like a heart beat, like moving through a strobe light. Each and every pulse an eternity in itself, until some crescendo of magnificence.

What a wild ride we are all on. It is getting so intense. I feel like we need to slow down. Maybe I need it to slow down.

I didn't read it as being from Tomas' time, it reads to me as being one of a sequence of dates from Ken's time. On page 136 he speaks of 2109 offering 'advice' on the 17th of May, p144 he get's a message from the sheriff on Sat 27th May, and then on page 145 it is the 28th May and Ken is driving on the M6.
It may be of no relevance at all, but then there are other seemingly deliberate errors such as the mislabeling of chapter 23 as Chapter 7.

I once read a modified version of the many worlds theory that stated that every possible outcome of every possible situation exists, but in a state of superposition. The many worlds theory proposes that new universes are created whenever multiple outcomes are possible - a new universe for each outcome, which could mean infinite numbers of universes. But the modified theory stated that all of these outcomes exist simultaneously, but in a state of superposition. Time doesn't exist so all the possible outcomes in every situation exist simultaneously and always have. The conscious mind navigates it's way through these possibilities, subconsciously choosing outcomes. Once the outcome has been observed then it ceases to be in a state of superposition and becomes our perceived reality. Time is merely a construct.

I really like that theory, and it makes me wonder how differently each individual experiences reality. Are the other people that I meet in my life experiencing the same outcomes that I observe them to experience in my perceived reality? Do we even exist as individuals or is the self an illusion? Are we all the same conciousness exploring reality repeatedly in different ways?

Is there anybody out there

a reply to: sputniksteve

a reply to: IcculusSuperFly

Howdy! I am most certainly still here. Hows it going?

All is well my friend. This thread sucked me in like a good book and my $14 copy of The Vertical Plane just came in today. I'm really excited to start reading it. I obviously have not read the book yet so please correct me if i get something wrong.

Im a big MU fan and was recently catching up on older episodes and heard TVP show. The story really grabbed me and i ended here where i spent 4 days catching up. Sorry my questions and thoughts are so shortly written. Im alittle pressed for time right now.

Being 30 plus years removed from the events i wonder how Gary Rowe feels about it all now. How it happened, why it happened. Things of that nature. Also, does he feel the book Thomas supposedly wrote is real and if so does he think it will be found in his lifetime? Having talked to him do you have any insight into this?

What happened with the library you contacted? At one point i wondered if 2109 might be a reference to a catalogue number or something similar. Without going into the story of why ive also wondered if John Dee may have had possession of Thomas' book at some point. He had a very large library and ive been doing some research into it.

Something I find important to note is that it all started with the remodling of the cottage. Im sure you know thats a pretty common thing with paranormal activity. I dont know what the connection is to the story but i do feel its important.

Theres a hundred more things i wanted to say, none of which i can remember right now so i think thats it for the time being. Great thread and great story. How come everyone just dropped off?

PS. Please excuse my fat fingers on a little phone








a reply to: sputniksteve

a reply to: IcculusSuperFly

Ive had a bunch of research tabs open on my phone. This morning i searched for thomas fowleshurst on i think the oxford library site and got this. Unfortunately we need to have an account to look at it. Ill try and see if there is a way around this. I was surprised to find this so im posting without before going as far as i can with it.

solo.bodleian.ox.ac.uk...,contains,Thomas%20fowleshurst&tab=local&search_scope=LSCOP_ALL&vid=SOLO&offset=0

a reply to: IcculusSuperFly

My first thought is what can his relatives tell us about him. Maybe one of them has his diary if he had one or know of a family story about the leems box. Where is gary in all this? Hes in a position to do things we cant being in england(if thats where he is) like go to these librarys or meet with potential leads. IDK. Just my thoughts. I cant figure how to out a pic in? Wanted to show the screen shot of the search results. Maybe its just my phone

Good evening good people. I too joined this site purely because this book has fired me up to such a degree and it's comforting to know that other people feel likewise about it. I had never heard of it until it was mentioned in a random text a year or so ago, from a friend I haven't seen for 30 years. Since all things paranormal are my greatest interest I bought a copy of the book last year and just could not put it down. I've recently found a blog on another site (Google Ghost in the Machine- Mercurius Politicus) that's been going on and on for years now. I love the fact that new people keep discovering this book and get sucked in by it, just like us. Anyhow, this blog I just mentioned has some pretty interesting contributors, including Gary Rowe who researched the events described in TVP. Suffice to say, I need to finish reading that whole blog, read all of the thread on this site, then read the book again (paying particular attention to chapter 7, as per Mr Rowe's advice), then get back on here and pick everyone's brains about it. So, the thread of TVP is far from dead!!! Can I just ask, are most of you lovely people not in the UK?

Hello everyone!

Hope some old faces will see this as well as the new. I have kept up reading replies, but feel I have so little to add lately that I just didnt, for that I apologize. My enthusiasm for the book itself had waned considerably due to other events representing other opportunities. I'm still just as unsure about so much as to feel the need to start over. Its hard to dedicated the required time lately but I have been rereading the book when I get the chance again too.

I had an idea a moment ago that struck me as worth mentioning. Perhaps the book we are in search of from our 16th century author isnt actually a physical book? Not that it narrows things down by any means, however if a "leems" can materialize for him, who's to say there wasnt some assistance down the road in helping to preserve the book he eventually wrote? I dont think we should rule put the possibility that the entire book was dictated by the leems. We know there is deception involved with details and information given through omission and deliberate.

Food for thought at least, maybe something will spark for someone. Hope all are well, Joseph I would very much like to speak to you again.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Glad you're still here... Thanks to you I've started reading the book over again myself.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Just wanted to note that it is impressive you are still watching this thread. Great "customer service"!

Cheers

a reply to: wtbengineer

Its refreshing after taking such a long break, I am no longer taking certain things for granted. Similar to my questioning the physicality of the book itself, I am questioning the physical aspect of One and of course the Leems itself.

If we take everything at face value, 2109 tells us physical matter wont time travel but that offers some contradictions. In my mind, One was some humanoid that popped out of the stereotypical 2d portal from the wall raving mad and handing over a computer that phases in and out of existence depending on Lukas presence, invisible to some but not others, etc. In that case if we assume One is a time traveler he must not be made of matter, like a hologram or projection maybe? But what of the Leems? Could it also be of the same? Or are we to wonder about an either/or argument for extradimensional explanation? The photo of the Sports Car was seen by Lukas and returned with singed edges. Did the photo itself time travel or dimension shift?

Maybe it doesn't really matter and it cant be rational or coherent. Maybe what matters is the point that information and data bypasses the time travel conundrum. Sending information to the future is relatively if not extremely easy. You write a book, a letter, paint a picture, keep a diary, graffiti a building, build a monument, create a symphony, etc.

Sending that information to specific recipients possibly generations down the line gets less certain and ones confidence in success will decline the further the date and the more complex the message. A family recipe for Biscuits and Gravy may be indecipherable to my ancestors interested who may perhaps stumble upon it. You never know how long it may take or how quickly someone may figure it out.

Keep getting stuck at the presenting it to the past part. Heading too bed take care all.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Interesting thoughts... I'm going to try to reread the book with a fresh perspective, though I confess that I have an opinion on the matter going in. I'm going to try to have an open mind and just look at all the information as much as possible with a neutral point of view, if that's at all possible. I don't have a ton of time to read these days, but I'll be back to discuss....

a reply to: wtbengineer

Whatever it is I am interested in hearing it. Its a mystery I cant help but think about always in the background. It becomes a distraction even when I dont feed it.

a reply to: sputniksteve

I know exactly what you mean...

a reply to: wtbengineer

Really weird night. Fell asleep thinking about data in space time and realized something that I was certain I would remember so could neglect writing it down.

Dreamt of catching a neighbor sneaking out of their window late at night, and I hollered at them. They got very aggrevated and I picked them up to carry them home and they were insistent that that "he" will be angry at us, really panicking about this. I didnt ask them to explain who "he" was but I knew and assured them everything was fine with a very fake smile on my face. I wasnt sure if I was lying or or not. I was terrified too but felt confident despite.

Couldnt get back to sleep after that. Its cold in the house and the dog is always pushing against me.

I just wish I knew if I was supposed to understand anything thats happened or happening. Specifically and just in general. All thats happened in the last 2 years since TVP whether imagined, orchestrated, or hallucinated including the book itself. All thats happened since 1995. All that happened since birth and anything beyond. I sometimes feel like all of life has been a procrastination to remember, figure out, or accept something I was unwilling.

I would like to know if I am doing the whole thing wrong, I cant tell if this lack of feedback is actually present both exisistentially and manifest in daily life or if I am just not accepting whats given or being obvlivous when it is.

Life itself is just so F'ing weird I feel foolish for thinking anyone can come close to figuring it out, at the same time feeling I am the one being left out.

Life itself is just so F'ing weird I feel foolish for thinking anyone can come close to figuring it out, at the same time feeling I am the one being left out.

a reply to: sputniksteve


Man, I wish I knew you in real life... I don't think a single person around me thinks these things... except me. The quoted part above, I can relate to completely! Left out. I feel that way every day. I know I am no closer to figuring things out. The one thing I've found out about life is that the longer you live and the more you see the more you have to come to realize you don't know anything...

That dream you had is really weird, I can relate to that too. All mine are. I started getting sick yesterday and didn't sleep very well last night, but when I did I had the strangest dreams too. I couldn't really tell you what they were about, just bits and pieces... but was coherent when I was dreaming it... I don't know that our dreams mean anything but they feel like they do.

a reply to: wtbengineer

Luckily there are plenty of options for us to eventually choose.

The point I have been considering about the timelessness of data and information is that I think its possible TVP was not the action of a future entity but a reaction instead. It was an experiment not instigated from the future, but the future giving a "message read, how do you copy?".

I think often that it was a specific message, hidden among the static of the incredible situation and events that is completely overshadowed by them. Whether on purpose or not, what took place became the distraction to the original intention.

It presents a feedback loop. What is now the past, recieved a reply from what is still the future, the past is stating "we didn't call you guys" and they are saying "not yet but you will".

Once TVP was written, reintroduced 30 years later, then demand is so great its digitized, then archived in a timeless state for anyone to come along and extract later, and the message is now sent. We dont have to wait for an answer.

This is my best and most honest interpretation I believe. At least its most plausible outside of pure fabrication, and may still involve fabrication just not purely.