The Vertical Plane by Ken Webster - Is this proof of Time manipulation and travel or just a story?

a reply to: CromCruachh

Fantastic. I'm very glad to see your post this morning. I just recently got my book back exactly 1 year after I loaned it to my Uncle and have been thinking about TVP since. I didn't have anything interesting to add to the thread and was hoping for someone to have a breakthrough.

Crom I cant argue with anything you have stated, they are things I know to be true as well. The way you communicate instantly reminds me of the specific experience I had last year in Denver. I cant tell if its exactly the same as its hard to put into words but it sounds like it is. Ive had a dozen since then but none as breath taking and awe inspiring as the first.

For me personally, knowing this is one thing, acting on it day in and day out is something all together different. Hopefully that's just my stubborn self.

As far as wether or not you are supposed to tell, I wish I could give advice but I cant. The only solace I can give is, if 99% of people you could tell wont believe you, there isnt a lot of danger to mess up. Whether or not that breaks trust I am not sure. In my experience they understand how big of a paradigm shift this is and forgive an inability to keep secret for a while. There are little transgressions and big ones. You can do a tiny bit of damage sharing information or a lot of damage sharing information is specifically how it was explained, luckily I only did a small amount of damage. Key is, I DID do some damage. Still not a good thing.

Thanks for posting today!

**edit** As for the purpose of being 1 consciousness, I personally think game is an apt description for the reason but I am not sure it entirely fits. I think the purpose is in the experience itself, and cannot be separated from it. I think the entire purpose IS the experience. There could very well be a grand purpose, but I am completely unaware if there is. I hope this edit makes sense and doesnt look like esoteric garbage.

a reply to: CromCruachh

Past,present,future. My understanding is that delineation of those 3 states is for reference. Stating that there is only the present is a way of saying that those 3 states are happening simultaneously rather than being finite states that no longer exist afterwards or prior to happening.

In other words the past still exists as much as this present moment, the same way the future already exists even though we cant access it. Those states are still pre or post this exact moment so referencing pre or post makes sense to us obviously and is necessary for our linear minds.

In other words I dont think there is a contradiction.

a reply to: CromCruachh

1 last post today in reply, because what you have said specifically excites me.

There were a few catalysts that got me to change the way I think, act, and feel in this world since 2015. One of the first and possibly most important was a realization one night while laying in bed that you and I (the inclusive) may share the same "I", the I that we refer to when we refer to ourselves. I am not sure where it came from or why it came at all, but it did and it was profound and I laid there for hours staring at the light on my smoke detector contemplating it.

The second point I wanted to make was about the danger of sharing ideas. There was a book I read earlier this year called "The Art of Resurection" which I am sure I spoke about in this thread. It was the history of these ideas and why there have always been kept "secret" and held only by elite groups of seekers. The reason for this wasn't to exclude others, but to protect the minds of people that couldn't cope with the ideas. These concepts can be dangerous for peoples mental, physical, and spiritual well being. I have seen this first hand with someone I was talking to on Reddit. There is danger of hurting people that are not ready or willing to consider these things.

I still highly suggest you check out that book, it is fascinating and will give insight into many of the things you are thinking about right now.

a reply to: sputniksteve
Now this post might be a bit incoherrent since I'm hell tired, so apologies if it is.

The 3 states happening simultaneously makes sense. It's only our own minds which stop us from being in the future and past isn't it? What was it that was written on meadow cottages floor? "The grey retarding mass is your prison"
Beings without linear minds like ours must see us and the world so differently as to how we see it.

Regarding the Art of Resurrection, when you mentioned it before i bought it and read it-glad i did coz it's a good one! When he said that some people cannot handle the teachings, it reminded me of something john keel said about investigating deep into the ufo phenomenon, he said that the ufo phenomenon is dangerous to study, and most people who investigate deep into it either develop paranoid schizophrenia, become cultist like/true believers, commit suicide or become possessed. Only those who have some latent psychic ability can study deep into the ufo phenomenon and look into the abyss without deteriorating and losing their minds.
Now i think certain things are connected, and I think the whole UFO phenomenon is connected with our consciousness.

The thing i found most interesting in Silva's book was his theory on ancient megalithic sites being like machines which interact with our biological body and let us travel into the other world. I'm actually going travelling next month and i'm going to go to a bunch of different megalithic sites to test this out. (theres no megalithic sites in my country). one thing i wanna try out is sleeping at one of these sites and see what sort of dreams I have. (Sounds nuts i know lol)

If we are all of the same consciousness and it's a game, i'm playing against myself. There was another thread recently where this poster claimed to have a dream about jews, and a few other people commented too and said they had dreamed about jews. I had aswell. I had had a vivid dream about jews on the same night as these people...do you reckon that's odd? or just a coincidinkle...
Oh I just remembered something, remember that light you saw? that fat star in the sky that slowly dropped? Coz i'm pretty sure you saw that at the same time I did.
Anyway my rambles over, There was more i wanted to bring up but i gotta go to sleep now.
Night.

Hi SputnikSteve
I hope that you are still active on this thread as I have just finished reading the book and, like you, am utterly fascinated by the whole thing.

Especially as I had a vivid dream based on the future around the year 2102, and I then on the basis of that wrote a novel using famous poets from the year 1798 - so there are many parallels to my experience - hence the interest.

However, 2109 does not say an awful lot if any substance - so I was a little disappointed, also by KWs lack of interest in them.

I am about to go through the whole thread - but has anyone speculated that 2109 may represent silicon having developed a form of intelligence by this time?

Hope you are still around, and looking forward to reading up on the thread.

a reply to: Drachenfel

Hi Drach,

Sorry that you are just finding this thread after its hay day. I am still very interested in the book and think about it a lot but the discussion just sort of fizzled out as you see. I am confident that all it needs is another spark though. A couple posters sounded like they had good leads but never shared them. I reckon we all just kind of drifted and continued searching.

It is frustrating that Ken and Deb weren't so interested in 2109, personally thats all I cared about really. While its fun to read about Tomas living in 1585 I dont really learn that much, but its entirely possible I/we are overlooking something I suppose.

In any case welcome and I look forward to another discussion hopefully.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Hi Steve

Well, having read the thread over my observation is that it was the Lukas communications that were important, and the 2109 persona, as well as saying nothing substantial that didn't sound like some sort of Aviary type psy-op, was an unwelcome intrusion.

I note that 2109 gave clues that they were contemporary with 1985 -

They referred to the USSR

They had the telephone number of the world's greatest Ufologist - who doesn't seem in the meantime to have justified his star status in the 22nd century

They use pseudo-cryptic code-speak to communicate with other operatives which happily finds its way onto the screens of both Lukas and the 1985 guys - the contrived format of which wouldn't have looked out of place in a Bennewitz style MJ12 forgery.

And they were asked to prove that they were from the future by predicting the next supernovae - and they answered by saying that such and such *could* be the next one at some date or other.

Well, they can see the past - it will be or it won't be, which is it?

And one more note - there was an attempt to introduce pseudo-Egyptian occult symbolism into the narrative - see Picknett & Prince "The Stargate Conspiracy" for why this is insidious and somewhat sinister - entirely in terms of 21st century social engineering, that is.

The bizarre thing is the communications between Lukas and 1985 read entirely legit, and the sincerity of the main participants cannot be doubted - and it is the emotional and psychological impact on Ken/Deb etc that is what of real importance.

Interesting how the 2109 thing deflected attention so effectively from this.

What the other crowd were about, and how might intelligence operatives, or some such, have hacked a modemless primitive computer, I wouldn't like to speculate.

All above, IMHO of course.

But if you feel inclined to take 2109 seriously, then you could do no worse than to take the pussy cat quote as clue to the location of Lukas's book - you are looking for a grave in a churchyard in London - the faith quote will be an inscription in the church itself.

Good luck!

Drachs,

Perhaps it is just my own shortcoming that I am missing the importance of the relationship. Frankly I think my expectations are too high in thinking there will be some golden ticket to understanding everything once the thread starts unraveling. Obviously I am the only one that can manage those expectations but I am not quite ready to give in.

In any case I am far more optimistic about 2109 and Gary Rowes participation, for obvious reasons. I don't expect others to see from the same perspective though. You have given me reason to pause and reconsider however. While the event happened 30+ years ago everyone involved is still pretty young considering and there is a lot of time left before the "in your lifetime" clause proves incorrect.

originally posted by: Drachenfel
a reply to: sputniksteve

But if you feel inclined to take 2109 seriously, then you could do no worse than to take the pussy cat quote as clue to the location of Lukas's book - you are looking for a grave in a churchyard in London - the faith quote will be an inscription in the church itself.

Considering this insight, is this just your interpretation or did I miss something obvious? Not that it matters as I am no where near the UK but I still expect the book to be found eventually and highly anticipate the day.

As I've only just found this thread and noticed its been resurrected just want to say what a fascinating read. Its taken me a few hours but I've ploughed through the entire thread and it was well worth it, and deserves to be resurrected

Here's a link to the mysterious book which happily is available on amazon
www.amazon.co.uk...=od_aui_bia_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Cheers buddy.

Good morning everybody. I just realized something I had not before. I just realized that me using the present as the actual present as a point of reference may be really screwing me up. Principles of the vertical plane dictate that our present is already the past.

I'm driving on the highway and using voice text so I don't want to do anything else for now but I wanted to get it down so I don't forget. Define expound this evening.

2109 says that Tomas is existing but that his reality is not what he thinks it is. They suggest that they freeze time for him so I think a month passes for Ken and Deb while no time passes for Tomas.

We would be fools to think that we werent existing in the same way. I always felt 2109 was playing coy to talking too specifically, even though they outright state a man would lose his soul to hear the truth.
I think we must also be living in the past, there is just no way around it.

Its one thing to try and imagine the past existing while "we" are still the tip of the spear but the full realization that we are not is really doing me in right now.

I feel so silly for not seeing this experiment for what it was for so long. I think this gives a framework for a great many anomolies and paranormal events to be understood.

I have about a million things I want to say but I want to think on this a bit more.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Cool thread and the book much cheaper now, I will leave a marker and get the book next week..
Cheers

a reply to: sputniksteve

We aren’t really living in the past and neither is Thomas. I think of Time as our consciousnesses way of processing information. It doesn’t exist as a seperate dimension as such. It’s only exists in our mind. As for past present and future, think of Zenos paradoxes. When an arrow is fired, it travels through the air (motion) and eventually hits the target, but it’s only at one place in the air during its flight at a place it’s own size. The arrow is always in rest in its flight, but it has the appearance of motion.
Time for us could be an endless series of moments with endless possibilities which exist simultaneously. But a creature with a different consciousness and without our restricting brain could look at the moments themselves without them appearing to be in motion (2109)
In my current opinion, the same is the case for space. It doesn’t exist as an objective space outside our minds. All space is our consciousness processing information. It doesn’t really look the way our senses make it appear.
I know you’ve come across these ideas before

a reply to: DrWolfgang

Wow! I love your explanation of how time works.....thank you for your thoughts! I am SO happy this thread has started up again. I have the book, but haven’t read it yet. I will start it today.
For all those that are still searching for this elusive book, I purchased mine on a used book site called Alibris. I just checked and it is still for sale for $ 11.64
I had to wait quite awhile for it, as it was shipped from the UK
Sputnik Steve, glad to hear you’re still following this mystery! ATS has missed you and your entertaining writing style.

B

a reply to: DrWolfgang

While you are of course right, as we have discussed before time and space dont actually exist yet here we are talking on the internet so we common reference. For the sake of considering this narrative and what can be learned from it, it is important to understand our place in the grand scheme, and it is not where I assumed it was. Forest for the trees man, I am afraid you are making the same mistake.

a reply to: sputniksteve
I don’t understand?
What do you mean by understanding where we are in the grand scheme? Do you mean That time is being manipulated by certain forces to head in a certain direction and we should be careful not to disrupt it?

a reply to: DrWolfgang

No, I do not mean that at all. I mean when we consider The Vertical Plane, its easy to imagine we are on top or at the leading point but in fact we are somewhere in the middle.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Of time? My point was the there is no leading point, no middle point.just a long, almost endless series of still moments which exist all simultaneously. That’s my take on it so far anyway.
Later on today I want to post a few other ITK transcripts on here. There was on comm where a being similar to 2109 claimed that after people die, they exist in a low consciousness state in the beyond, and they exist for there for ever and can communicate with us. But because they are in an inferior state they are unaware of certain things. This makes me think of Thomas? maybe thats his situation? Nevertheless I’ll post it later with a few others

a reply to: DrWolfgang

OK I understand, and I agree. I wasnt doing a good job of explaining myself. I was trying to emphasize the idea that what we are doing, has been done, and to a degree what we will do has been done.