The Vertical Plane by Ken Webster - Is this proof of Time manipulation and travel or just a story?

originally posted by: sputniksteve
a reply to: studio500

I'm kind of beating around the bush here, because the conversation I want to have is pretty heavy and I am not sure this medium is the way to do it.

In any case, I can't help wonder if its possible that people communicating online may be doing it from different perspectives or "sub-realities" unbeknownst to either party? I think I may be misunderstanding your use of that term, but it is a very intruiging one.

I know exactly what you mean Steve,
I'll send you a PM in the morning. I've just got home after a few late nights away and just checked in to see how the thread is going.
It's just about to turn 3am here at the moment, so please excuse me for not adding anything else just yet.

My eyes feel like they are about to cement themselves shut.

Regards
Marc

I had been looking forward to having a chance to read the book.In particular, I was curious to see if my perspective on the events would change afterwards.

I don't believe my thoughts have changed, based on my recall of what I had shared earlier on in the thread.

Looking over the last several pages of the thread, I remain skeptical of 2109.Idk, One's comments about them lecturing physics and whatnot come to mind.Also their statements about feeding on a kind of energy.I feel that may be a part of what may keep individuals somewhat reserved when it comes to discussing them.For me, it wasn't the highlight of the experiences shared by KDP.

Idk what 2109 are as beings per se, though I am leaning more towards them serving a role similar to the way Archons are described in some of the Gnostic Faiths.The riddles and speculation as to them serving as gatekeepers as some kind remind me of this.I believe some gnostics place Archons as intelligence of various spheres that must be confronted as someone moves forward in their spiritual journey.In my opinion, it would help to describe the synthetic or more mechanical kind of vibe I get thinking about 2109.

Thinking about the book, a part of me feels sad wondering about what happened to Katherine.I feel she had a positive influence on Lucas and once she was elsewhere the situation became more challenging.May she rest in peace.

As to the mechanics of how events like this could take place, I still feel it has to do mostly with ley lines, the energies of the individuals involved, and possible space weather or our planets particular location in time and space.These variables influence varying in real time as the events occured.

Idk if One initiated the experiment, I get the impression that 2109's role could be tied into our growing interest in nuclear energy and the developement of alternate forms of power.Perhaps as a warning of sorts to think long and hard about the man's exploration into those departments.(Ie. Chernobyl and Fukashima)

Looking back, I think headaches can be a symptom of pushing ones imagination and powers of visualization to the max.I don't experience them very often anymore, though it was more common when I was trying to figure out the models I used to percieve stuff like the way the universe looks to me.It felt like strong pressure in the third eye area of the forehead.Hopefully, this is just a stage others grow through.

I doubt there are certain things that must never be discussed with humans, rather that it's important to practice being responsible with one another as a matter of principle.Those practicing responsibility in minor things tend to be more responsible in in greater things.

Studio500 mentioned a diety on the envelope.I'm guessing probably an incarnation of Thoth.In my paradigm, much of this account is right up his alley.The stacking of objects seems to suggest that too.There's those who had a custom of piling stones up at crossroads to pay their respects to him.I like to think the stones served as a reminder that individuals don't need to feel alone in the journeys, and others have shared a similar journey.As a Heirophant, his influence is a blessing.Thanks be to God.

I believe communications of this sort have been ongoing.The medium/tools changing with the the era or individuals involved.

I am grateful that copies have become more readily available, and wish all the best to Ken, Debbie, Peter, Gary and everyone else who worked towards the books re-release.Thank-you very much and hopefully the renewed discussion around the events helps build some peace of mind around what happened.

I really enjoyed the book, and imagine most will make a quick read of it.It strikes me as the kind of book that can be visited periodically to try and garner more insights or as a tool to explore in meditation for example.

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

Hi dff...
This is what I love about ATS, listening to the views of others. Sharing knowledge, concepts, thoughts and alternative viewpoints.
You shared some interesting observations too as well as opening further lines of research, the Archons is just one example.

I have frequently questioned why 2109 would choose riddles as a form of communication. Riddles are open to interpretation by nature and as such they do not deliver data in a clear and accurate manner. I guess AI could communicate in this way as it may lack the overall concept of concise delivery without bias through interpretation, that makes sense.

I am particularly drawn to your reference of Thoth and the links with stacked stones etc. Thoth could certainly be a contender as the deity drawn upon the envelope.
It may be worth contacting Gary Rowe to seek confirmation of this but there are portion of his account that he refuses to discuss which appertain more toward his private communications with 2109.

As for the Ley Lines link, this is an area that we haven't covered much in this thread. In my part because I know little about them.
I do know that this is an area of research that Gary Rowe enjoys (or enjoyed) and that Debbie Oake was shown in the previously posted video, apparently making a Ley Line connection with the cottage.

I am aware of alleged discussions with ITC spirits who state that geomagnetic lines play a huge part in communications between planes and that this is particularly so where geomagnetic lines cross which can sometimes produce a time portal.

In fact they even state that the UFO's that we sometimes seen on Earth are actually caused by time slips due to magnetic convergence of these lines and not by visiting Aliens.

Food for thought

I just had a kind of far out idea. What if you were able to communicate with your past and future self telepathically (for a lack of better word yet), which could be perceived by your past self as intuition, a subconscious connection, or even a 3rd party communication?

For instance, when I was about 17 or 18 I was laying in bed one night when my full first name was suddenly shouted in my mind or head, which caused me to sit bolt upright in shock and fear. Who is to say that if I don't attempt this by reaching a certain state of mind or being that I am not having success since I did experience it then? This wouldn't be provable obviously but I can think of a few more ways to test this at least.

One could try and concentrate on a string of numbers or digits so intensely and continuously that it may permeate the consciousness of their past and future self. In the past you may have seemed to always focus on these particular numbers or digits without grasping why they seemed to have significance until one day you decide to attempt it and it all suddenly makes sense.

Sound like a fun experiment to anyone else? Maybe we can get someone to win the lottery last year and take us all on a vacation.

Have a fantastic weekend gentlemen and ladies.

Hola. I just created an account after reading most of this thread in less than 24 hours. I apologize in advance, since I got a little impatient and just skimmed the last 3-4 pages so I may have missed something, [edit] and holy moly my post is long.

I lucked out and got a first edition copy of TVP last Christmas, read it all in one sitting and keep meaning to read it again but haven't yet. I'm not sure what compelled me to Google it again now (except a generic fascination with the basic concepts of time visitation whether real or a fantasized movie version) but I did and it led me here.

What caught my eye was the repeated mention of this passage:

An Example: 213,978,8]: Irrecoverable
State: Reason for your pretext
State: What ‘prerequisite’ you intend
State: Logical Explanation for intrusive behaviour upon 1985; This is not your concern
Request: com.link 62]lot.chan.[452.95]
Request: Answer immediate:fed. Awaiting reasons for delay

I see that through a "technician's eye" (I am a sys admin by trade), with the understanding that this is "One" talking to 2109.

Obviously the numerical values mean nothing to me specifically but overall this looks very much like a kind of technical communication one might see today. The next to the last line clearly refers to a communications link with a specified channel, protocols not that different than what is used today which to me is suggestive of the use of a physical technological infrastructure dependent on those protocols, rather than an intangible yet-to-be-understood communication method (though the book has no shortage of those, too). Perhaps "One" is capable of more but adheres to backward compatible protocols. That might lend itself to the idea that 2109 is actually in year 2109 (as prosaic as that may be), a time near enough to our own that the technological foundations we've laid today might still be distantly reflected in or translatable to the technologies of tomorrow.

With regard to who 2109 could be and what role they play, I saw one or two people mention that their communications seem quite juvenile in nature and I concur with that. The grandiose "meaning of life" riddles almost sound like a pre-teen drama queen stirring the pot just to amuse themselves with their own ability to do so, an idea that would seemingly be reinforced by the text speak and otherwise poor English, in comparison with "One" who projects themselves as more of a professional trying to accomplish a task. Perhaps 2109 with a very rudimentary understanding of the technology in use by "One" inadvertently broke into the experiment without knowing what they were really playing with, like the computer-nerd kids of the 80's movies, and decided to play around with it until "One" figured out who they were and put a stop to it. But that's probably a common hypothesis.

I haven't re-read it with the question in mind to see if anything in the book disproves it, but I wondered if the device Tomas used could have been a tablet or laptop? That may help explain how he could have used a modern device without a source of electricity (battery power, that could be refreshed by "One" as needed while he slept so he never saw it happen). It does tickle my funny bone a little bit, the idea of a 16th century man using Siri.

Speaking of movies, I actually hope TVP isn't made into a movie. It would likely be highly sensationalized and distorted into some horror flick that would make us all cringe (in a bad way). What I'd *want* to see is them working closely with Ken to reproduce the situations and unpublished messages as close to the real happenings as possible but that just wouldn't happen and anything but would be a disservice to the original.

Anyway I just felt like buzzing through and dropping my two cents on the way by from a slightly different perspective.

TTFN

Just a followup, 452.95 is verified as a VHF band. I found the below in "Railway Signaling and Communications Volume 51" on Google, published 1958:

"Railroads were allocated two two-frequency channels. One channel, 452.95/457.95 mc, is a pair of primary frequencies and is rather heavily occupied in some metropolitan areas by motor carrier stations."

That is more than likely entirely unrelated to our story and the reference above, but it does illustrate the similarities that could exist between the technologies in use from the early 20th century onward.

a reply to: Catastrophany

Hi Catastrophy welcome to the thread, look forward to any more insight you can offer.

Hi everyone hope you had a good week. I can't stop thinking about my last post and I think I figured out a better way to explain it.

In regards to how we view time in the book, and the concept of past, present, and future all happening simultaneously. We as individuals only have one consciousness it seems, so that same consciousness must be present in all those different states simultaneously as well. To some degree maybe we can be aware of those other states of consciousness in the form of intuition or instinct or just a "gut feeling". If someone dedicated themself to trying to influence those other states they may be able to achieve some success at it.

This is the base of a hypothesis I am currently toying with as the explanation for the events in Dodleston. I am not ready to fully lay it out yet but I suspect it will come to me soon. I have been suspecting for some time now that most of what is in the book is a bit of a red herring in that it takes the focus off of certain individuals and puts it on others. In other words maybe the entire event took place for one very specific reason that becomes over shadowed by the complexity and awesomeness of the entire event, which would most likely be deliberate.

What if someone figured out a way to communicate with "themself" from a different state of consciousness by passing messages that only they would recognize the significance of, due to the form or context of the message. They might devise an experiment that assures the chance to pass those messages while remaining under the radar by coming off as a mundane event happening inside of a much more elaborate and interesting scope.

2109 may have just been aware of what was actually taking place and followed along to make sure no permanent damage was done while trying not to intercede and shut down the entire experiment.

I'm guessing most will read between the lines here as I don't want to necessarily call out specific people under the assumption that they may have good reasons to remain under the radar that I am simply not aware of but would accept if I was aware.

Good morning everyone, I've been meaning to post some more here.Idk, it's all little daunting trying to organize the thoughts I'd like to express about this...

a reply to: sputniksteve

I have heard my name called too, at various times.I figure noticing this is a sign to pay attention.Typically, if/when it's safe (Depending on what I'm doing) I'll stop and look around to see if somebody is trying to get my attention.If that's not the case, I'll practice tracing my line of thought around the moment.I'll see if there is any connection there, and make a note regardless to myself.Sometimes events become more obvious further down the line.

I can relate to the idea of trying to communicate with your future self.At first, reading over your post I imagined me sending a future message to old me sitting on the porch drinking some Old E.

Imo our subconscious mind holds vast quantities of information, and our conscious mind and feelings(via the heart) serve to mediate the flow between the inner and outer worlds we experience as we journey through life.

I feel passionate about the nature of time, and spent much energy trying to develope a healthier relationship with the concept.I think this is a natural part of growing up, coming to terms with the Saturine energy one encounters.

I believe that the ancients often encoded numbers into the geometry and structures of their ancient works that had multiple correspondences between the heavens and the earth to help preserve their knowledge.I marvel at the Great Pyramid for example and find it hard not notice some of the math that was built into the structure.I feel that the relationships and lengths that went into it's construction were partly built in the hopes that future generations could connect the dots and remember some of the knowledge long forgotten.

On a more personal level, dreamwork is an excellent way to get to know yourself better.I think of it as a kind of night school, and I feel there time is less restricting.There's an art to it, and many great books with tips/tricks that sort of thing.Sincere yearning and intuition is all someone really needs though, to get started.

In a not necessarily mundane sense, communicating with my future self brings to mind some of the more enlightening conversations I've had with elders and veterans in my community.Often their sensitivity and insight has inspired me, consider tapping into their experience when available.I try to practice actively approaching the more philosophical conversations respectfully from the angle of ideas and principles, listening to what they have to share.

a reply to: Catastrophany

Hello, hi Catastrophany

In another unrelated note, Canada hosted Expo 86 in Vancouver and I read your post while riding the Skytrain back home.Celebrating Vancouver's centenial anniversery theme for the worlds fair that year was transportation and communications.

2109's syntax frustrates me.I don't like to admit, I feel a mild sense of aggresion towards them.They may want that, for all I know.I feel like criticising them but need to practice using my manners.I should probably just reach out to them more personally, though feel it's a distraction compared to focusing on the rest of my friends and family.

Excuse me, as I kiss the sky...

It's very tempting to dream of a world freed from the shackles of time, and all the hopes robohumanity may hold.A part of me is very disappointed when there is so much focus in the media about transferring consciousness to synthetic bodies and entering a more virtual landscape with our minds.

I'm all for helping those with disabilities and physical ailments to live a better quality lives.Where do we draw the line though?So much focus on uploading intelligence, and life extension.What about the heart?What about feelings?Can an AI have a subconscious?Ghost in the Shell anybody?/rant

I imagine that the power source for the device in a similar fashion.Brings to mind those nuclear batteries that come up from time to time.I'm thinking of the low voltage ones that may be making their way into consumer electronics down the line a bit.

I think the book would make a good movie the way it is too, if only to spark philosophical conversation on the ideas in our culture at large.

a reply to: studio500

The lay lines, and mechanics involved remind me of playing pool.I don't play pool very often, though have noticed my game tends to vary depending on who I play with.Imo it's a way to take notice of the interplay of the energies of those around me.I tend to play better when feeling better all around.Something to consider next time you around the table.

I wouldn't hold my breath looking for confirmation about what was on the envelope.Seekers in the occult tend to practice the Powers of the Sphinx.

lLlindberg3 I am not energy and I am not a light being. You are familiar with the picture of two children walking across a bridge, and behind them is a being who protects them. This is what I am to you, but without the wings. You can call me Technician, since that is my role in opening this communication bridge. I am assigned to Planet Earth. Like Living Supercomputers

Have you heard of the Third Man Factor?

The description reminds me of that.I think it's influence is tied by degrees in to issues of others asking for help, if they are in danger, or if someone else is at risk at injuring another.

Well, I hope everyone is having a great day.The Vertical Plane appears very wide, I think breaking it down into bite size pieces is a good way to explore it.I think I'll take a look over some of the older threads around to get more ideas to bring up as well.

Hi All, apologies for my lack of attendance of late but sadly I've been sat in Hospital for the last several days strapped up to a heart monitor, as my ticker has decided to miss beats quite randomly, causing me to drop to the floor faster than a sack of stones.

Odd, because I'm very fit otherwise but hey ho, I'm back out now... just waiting to be fitted with some 24/48 hr portable heart monitor, to really find out what's going on.

Other than that and the usual old injuries playing havoc in the Winter cold, I'm fine...I think lol. I'm certainly not ready for the next dimension yet, I've got too much to do here haha.

I'm just going to read back through some replies but I'm glad to see we still have traction here.

a reply to: studio500

Glad you're feeling better studio500. Hopefully, it's just a speed bump and the monitor is able to give you more info.


No sweat with the thread, there's lots of time & avenues for research to check out in the thread/book.I took a look through everything online related to the events in The Vertical Plane a few days ago.Gary's suggestion to try reading between the lines of the book jumped out again to me.So hopefully practicing taking some time off and returning to the book will help us all understand better what happened.

Reflecting on the book Thomas may have wrote, had me poking around online for some leads. I came across SOLO Oxford's Libraries Online search tool.It's a great resource and archives data on a wide range of Oxford's collections.

I'm not sure how well Thomas book would be recognized if anyone came across it. He had a clear passion for spiritual matters, though I get the impression that his book may be one of poetry or in another form.I'm not sure if they would archive something like that.

I remember Thomas mention of some of his friends, and looked up Mutianus Rufus.Perhaps his buddy helped him with the book?Some time went by since 1986, I found a possible reference to him as a Konrad Mutain in The Intellectual Origins of the European Reformation By Alister E McGrath.

Interesting, tons more just popped up right now under Mutianus Rufus Conradus.Hmm, I was feeling pretty tired on Sunday.

Looking into the info about Desiderius Erasmus, I was rather impressed to say the least.Reading about his life's work and legacy in western thought was rather inspiring.Thomas friends seemed to be very high minded and their contributions to spiritulity/theology and humanistic lines of thought lives on today.Old school & awesome!

I spent some time contempleting our numbered friends (lol) and the itc links that Studio500 shared.Ken mentioned they had recieved some childish and nonsensical messages in Doddleston.I figure 2109 were the likely authors.If i recall correctly, the communications with them became a little more clear and straight forward as the book progressed.

The ITC links from communications in Germany (After the events in Doddleston) seem even a little more so to me.I wonder if they had a better idea of how they could do their job and play their role with humans after their experiences with everyone else recorded in The Vertical Plane?Maybe One had been trying to get their (2109) attention the whole time to begin with?Like a Mexicans favourite game of basketball

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

You have exceeded the maximum window of 4 hours allowed to edit your post.

I thought Mutianus Rufus was mentioned as a friend though the reference in The Vertical Plane actually refers to Epistolae Obscurum Vivarum by Mutianus Rufus as a book had Lukas studied.Towards the end of Chapter 16, in the Kobo Edition of The Vertical Plane it's mentioned that the Librarian had tracked down a book by a Mutianus Giacomo.'Rufus' is a nickname meaning red hair, and this is an obscure reference.Makes me wonder if she found that actual book?I'm not getting hits for the book on Solo or Giacomo Mutainus at a glance.

Oh, they mentioned she had used some word association to help try and dig up some more info.Fair enough, it had been written the Mutianus I had in mind had not written any books but had a more subtle influence on the Humanist movement back then preferring to write epigrams and letters to his friends.

Tried translating "Epistolae Obscurum Vivarum" using Google's latin translator. Unclear letter Ponds!Lol, Lukas!

HI Everyone.

Studio- I am relieved to hear you are OK, I admit I was a little concerned seeing you disappear so suddenly after dropping all that knowledge on us. As hungry as I am for conversation and knowledge it certainly isn't worth risking anyones health so don't worry about taking care of yourself rather than spending time with us loons. After all we probably have all the time in the world.

Different- Fantastic work! It seems you have a much better grasp of all of that than I do by far so I am sorry I can't comment very much on it. I often wonder if Tomas's book is sitting on some library shelf just waiting to be found. Imagine what widespread propagation of this topic and these ideas could do for the search. I imagine it is possible there is someone somewhere that has never heard of 2109 or TVP that upon learning about it may know exactly what they possess and the importance of it. Nothing would make me happier than if someone from this thread were to end up finding it. After all you would win the grand prize of immortality! (Metaphorically at least). However while I am on the topic........

One more day of work for me and looking forward to hopefully having some more discussion this weekend. Take care y'all.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Thanks sputniksteve.

I imagine the book being uncovered much the same way.My interest in the book being found sometime lies primarily in getting a chance to read more about what happened from Thomas perspective.

Looking over the thread, and what you have shared here, much of your earlier impressions hold weight.I don't want you or anyone else to underestimate their contributions, we're all in this together.

Much love, have a great evening.

Hi all! I have been following along but have not had anything to add. BUT, I just purchased TVP on a site called Alibris for about $22 includes shipping. YAY, I will finally have a chance to read this mysterious book. I believe they may have at least one more in stock.....

Hi everyone, just checking in. You doing OK studio? Hope we haven't lost you.

I ran across an interesting article today that I thought you all might enjoy.

www.slate.com...

a reply to: sputniksteve
I first heard about this story when Carol Vorderman introduced it as one of a series of mysteries she was producing for the BBC. It has fascinated me ever since. But it is quite capable of a rational explanation that vindicates those involved from any deception.
Lukas claims he is living in the reign of Henry VIII, and that Ken Webster and Debbie are living in his cottage, it being then 1987. This can be explained by Lukas having died in the first half of the sixteenth-century, and having had an O.B.E. without realizing that this was a precursor to his death. In short, he died without realizing it, because his conscious mind survived his bodily death.
For instance, Lukas admits to knowing nothing of the monarchs that reigned after Henry VIII. Therefore, Lukas’s memory ceased at the time of his death. Why should it not cease, since he no longer had a body, and therefore no further part to play in the world? Lukas’s conscious mind had entered the timelessness of eternity. He had not earned heaven, but had avoided hell. Instead, he existed in death’s timeless realm. In this state, he was limited to past memories, and could only wander around his house, as he remembered it. But, with no new memories to add to those he died with, he existed in this situation for more than four centuries, believing all this time that he was still as much alive as he had been at the time before his death.
Then, along came nineteen-year-old Debbie, (young women seem to feature as the source of energy that allows poltergeist activity to commence). Suddenly, Lukas became aware of ghost-like figures inside his home, in the form of Ken, Debbie and their friends. Did he see them through the eyes of Debbie, or was it some form of telepathy? It is impossible to say. At the same time, he experienced the ability and the energy to interfere in their lives with poltergeist activity. This ability broadened when he discovered that by concentrating upon each letter on the computer keyboard, it appeared lit up on the screen above. Since Lukas was educated at Oxford University, he had no problem in spelling and writing in Tudor English. This ability was later checked against the Oxford English Dictionary by an expert at Ken’s school, and found to be an accurate use of words from that period of history. And so began the strange communication between the twentieth-century cottage dwellers and Lukas, who continued to believe he was living in the reign of Henry VIII, and that Ken and company were ‘demons’ from the future.
Basically, this lays the foundation for what happened. If it is true, and I have reason to believe it is true, since I once had an O.B.E. myself, but fortunately it was not terminal, then the moral of the story is: do not end your life as Lukas did.
Dalero

a reply to: dalero

Very interesting hypothesis. I can't necessarily argue agaisnt it but it doesn't address One or 2109 or any events that have taken place since 1986, many of which are just as profound.