Misandrists and misogynists, I'm getting confused what they mean now

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: InceyWincey

I bet, being French, even their extreme feminists are hot though.

I agree, I'm not sure there are any French women who aren't hot, maybe it's the sexy accent that blinds me.
...we're getting on dodgy ground now though, blatant objectification and national steretypes, we must be misogynistic cavemen. I should expect a knock on the door by some skinhead woman in a denim jacket now!

originally posted by: InceyWincey

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: InceyWincey

I bet, being French, even their extreme feminists are hot though.

I agree, I'm not sure there are any French women who aren't hot, maybe it's the sexy accent that blinds me.
...we're getting on dodgy ground now though, blatant objectification and national steretypes, we must be misogynistic cavemen. I should expect a knock on the door by some skinhead woman in a denim jacket now!

You could be right about the accent...Though they don't half dress up well too. I better stop this train of thought before Juliette Binoche and Audrey Fleurot start that thing in my head again

Meh, my wife's a feminist, but she gets the hump if I play it all modern and metrosexual.
If I don't give her rear an appreciative little slap when I walk past she thinks something's up.
Maybe if there were more carry on films on the telly....

And if the skinhead woman looks anything like Tank Girl you can send her round mine!

Maybe there is just a disconnect between us all now? There are people who have been genuinely hurt by some form of Mis-thing that they can't get past it and this infects every aspect of their further relationship with the opposite sex?

originally posted by: SprocketUK
Maybe there is just a disconnect between us all now? There are people who have been genuinely hurt by some form of Mis-thing that they can't get past it and this infects every aspect of their further relationship with the opposite sex?

I think you're right there, certainly on the internet, not so much in my real life, but there are deeply polarised views out there. I also wonder about experiences influencing such thoughts but I think there's a fair bit of indoctrination going on at college campuses, and again, online.

As an aside, I refused to give a female friend my jacket when we were walking home late from a party. She pulled the I'm a bloke line so I should be cold, so I replied we're all equal now so tough luck you wore stupid clothes lol.
I teased her for a few hundred yards then gave her my jacket. Every girl in my social group expects the bloke to give up his jacket or blanket or whatever at outdoor parties if they are cold, they all expect us to carry the wood for the fire, and set the decks up etc.
All the while they are sitting gossiping together drinking rose wine or whatever crap it is they drink.

Nope, in my world I don't know any true feminists, girls here like many of the old established gender roles and won't give up on them any day soon lol

Another added thought, sometimes gender role complaints have nothing at all to do with gender, just circumstances.
I was with a girl for years, she lived in my house and I paid all the bills and she worked part time for her own 'spends' money. I came home from work and every evening cooked dinner was waiting for me, the house was immaculate and it was a fantastic arrangement.

On the other side of the coin, a male mate of mine moved into my place for 6 months after losing his job and being sanctioned by the DWP so no benefits. I didn't mind, I let him live rent free, bought the food etc, shared my beer, and the deal was he'd do the housework, cook food for us both after I came home from work, and I didn't have to do the dishes.
Again, a fantastic arrangement. Nothing to do with gender at all.

Guess it comes down to people having the guts to do what makes them happy, rather than what society (or some section of it) Tells them should make them happy.

I always offer my coat...But I am a dinosaur lol.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
Guess it comes down to people having the guts to do what makes them happy, rather than what society (or some section of it) Tells them should make them happy.

Very true, I think so long as both parties are happy then whatever works for them.
I have an intimate female friend who I share moments with, she is from Czech and very much into traditional gender roles. She has tempted me in to be fair, fantastic home cooking, all I'd have to do is the 'mans' work as she calls it and I'd have an amazing relationship.
Tempted yes, but I've had my own home, on my own for years now and I don't think I could give up my sanctuary again. Even with such a tempting offer lol

I always offer my coat...But I am a dinosaur lol.

I always give up my coat/blanket or whatever, but only after teasing them first about equality!

You know the heavy rain a couple of days ago, I was walking through town behind a smartly dressed woman desperately trying to keep her dry under her briefcase, presumably so her straightened hair didn't go all frizzy.
I caught her up and asked if she wanted my umbrella because my skinhead hair doesn't matter getting wet, she replied 'oh no I couldn't', I laughed it's a brolly from poundland and you need it more than me. She smiled and thanked me warmly and took the umbrella looking pleased as punch.

That was nothing to do with gender, that was someone who had more 'hair' issues with the rain than I did, and I was in my scruffy work clothes not a smart business suit probably going to a meeting somewhere.

I'm warm to my fellow humans in my local day to day life anyway. Couple of times this summer I've wanted an ice lolly, but Iceland only sell them in boxes of 8 for £1.00, so I've bought a box, opened it in the crowd outside and shouted does anyone want a lolly or these 7 will be going in the bin. I've made 14 people smile so far doing that lol

originally posted by: InceyWincey

originally posted by: SprocketUK
Guess it comes down to people having the guts to do what makes them happy, rather than what society (or some section of it) Tells them should make them happy.

Very true, I think so long as both parties are happy then whatever works for them.
I have an intimate female friend who I share moments with, she is from Czech and very much into traditional gender roles. She has tempted me in to be fair, fantastic home cooking, all I'd have to do is the 'mans' work as she calls it and I'd have an amazing relationship.
Tempted yes, but I've had my own home, on my own for years now and I don't think I could give up my sanctuary again. Even with such a tempting offer lol

I always offer my coat...But I am a dinosaur lol.

I always give up my coat/blanket or whatever, but only after teasing them first about equality!

You know the heavy rain a couple of days ago, I was walking through town behind a smartly dressed woman desperately trying to keep her dry under her briefcase, presumably so her straightened hair didn't go all frizzy.
I caught her up and asked if she wanted my umbrella because my skinhead hair doesn't matter getting wet, she replied 'oh no I couldn't', I laughed it's a brolly from poundland and you need it more than me. She smiled and thanked me warmly and took the umbrella looking pleased as punch.

That was nothing to do with gender, that was someone who had more 'hair' issues with the rain than I did, and I was in my scruffy work clothes not a smart business suit probably going to a meeting somewhere.

I'm warm to my fellow humans in my local day to day life anyway. Couple of times this summer I've wanted an ice lolly, but Iceland only sell them in boxes of 8 for £1.00, so I've bought a box, opened it in the crowd outside and shouted does anyone want a lolly or these 7 will be going in the bin. I've made 14 people smile so far doing that lol

I'm back for more

And yes, I agree wholeheartedly with your statements above. In the end, people are going to want what works best for them, and either a person is with someone in which such an arrangement will work and everything is fine, or if it doesn't,they'll move on accordingly.

Honestly, I think people naturally find roles to fit into. And like your example above, it has NOTHING to do with gender. It used to be in the 1950s, the man worked and brought in the income and the wife stayed home (with or w/o children) and took care of the house. When the man walked in the door, the wife rewarded his hard day's work with a hot meal. From there, the man would offer his wife the funds necessary to maintain life (be it grocery shopping or purchasing other odds and ends). When you look at this scenario, I don't see why there's anything wrong with it. Just so long as we don't randomly cite a random circumstance of perhaps the man beating his wife if the steak isn't cooked correctly or he having an affair with his secretary, or she robs him blind by spending all his money on makeup and clothing. (I'm sure this happened, but again, people make the mistake of turning this into the stereotype).

I know it's ranty, but the point I guess I'm trying to make is that people in relationships (be it romantic or platonic) find roles without even meaning to. It allows for peace and synergy, just so long as both parties uphold their role. Like your example with your friend who helped out around the house while you assisted him with shelter and finances. I was in a relationship for a long time where the man I was with did not have a job, I was the only one employed. But it worked. Because I would work throughout the week, he'd take care of the house and would make sure things were done. He paid the bills with my paycheck (which honestly put me at ease because I didn't really have to worry about it), and he was awesome and helped with dinner. He, luckily, also was very handy and knew how to fix pretty much anything.

It worked for us. We were happy because while I punched a clock, he took care of the things I couldn't do because I wasn't at home. And come time for the weekend,we could spend every second together having fun.

Anecdotal, I know, but I just really agree with your points above. Roles in a relationship (again, both platonic or romantic) are important and are inherent because that is what makes a relationship a relationship. What one person does for another and how they RELATE to each other. How two people work together to find harmony and cohesiveness. It has nothing to do with gender.

Sorry, I'm done, haha.

a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

Thanks again for an interesting well presented reply, I like your rants, they are well reasoned so even if you disagree with me I assume I'll enjoy trying to counter your arguments!

In the end, people are going to want what works best for them, and either a person is with someone in which such an arrangement will work and everything is fine, or if it doesn't,they'll move on accordingly.

Totally agreed. If two people are happy with their mutually agreed roles then whatever 'society' says about it is irrelevant.

You mention platonic relationships as well, and many years ago I shared a rented house with a female friend and we adopted our own roles naturally. We both worked full time so we had to find a balance with chores. Bills were of course 50/50 but chores became a funny mix. She hated cooking and was crap at it to be honest so that became my role.
She loved cleaning whereas I hated it so she'd do the bathroom, bins and recycling was my responsibily as well as yard work, pressure washing/leaves etc. She loved laundry and ironing (strangely) so the deal was so long as I put my crap in the laundry basket it would arrive back in my room all clean and ironed a couple of days later.

Even silly jobs like investigating a noise she'd heard at night, of course me and my maglite became security lol
As an aside though, I've never had a truly 'platonic' relationship with any female friend if I find them attractive, I just pretend and keep it quiet in my mind. Me and my friend did share a few moments sharing that house though, you don't get drunk together at home and expect never to find electricity sometimes...neither of us wanted a relationship with anyone, but a safe secret option at home which nobody else knew about was fantastic, although everyone in our social circles suspected.


*She's married to one of my close mates these days, but even now when we meet at parties or whatever we still have 'that secret look' in each others eyes lol...that's another off-topic story though!


*Just remembered another of my 'jobs' if some creep guy was bothering her at a nightclub or whatever I had to pretend to be her man so they'd get the message and walk on.


*Just had another thought with that male/female 'platonic' thing, when we shared that house we went out together as part of the same big social party circles. Everyone suspected with us but nobody knew our intimacy, and we both brought different people back to our house 'for the night' so to speak. She knew she was safe with me in the house, duty security.

Mad thing to me is that although we didn't want a relationship, there was a safe intimacy with us that I would struggle to categorize under any relationship label. Deeper than friends with benefits, more pseudo husband and wife with a picket fence and apple pie, deep love and mutual attraction, but wish to remain the freebird you feel inside.

Sorry, I'm ranting now, ah memories, male female roles and relationships are not binary in my life though, everything is fluid.

a reply to: InceyWincey

You're welcome! And I'm sure we have more things in common and things not in common, but like you said, I also would enjoy discussing such things with you either way, as you seem very respectable, which seems rare these days. This is the first thread I've posted in so far that is normally a very heated topic where everyone thus far has been respectful of each other's opinions.

I don't recall any yet, but I was expecting this thread to be filled with random nonsensical hatred from either side haha.

And I really enjoy you sharing your experiences, not only does it give me a glimpse (as someone who is discussing this topic with you) into your background and experiences which have helped shaped your outlook but it also exhibits you seem like a legitimately good dude!

Makes me wish more threads could be this way. Because, like I said, I'm sure there are things we have differing opinions on, but what is happening in this thread is proof that common ground can always be found and it's never out of style to respect one another! Especially considering you're a man, I'm a woman and this entire thread spells 'battle of the sexes', lol.

originally posted by: ReyaPhemhurth
Makes me wish more threads could be this way. Because, like I said, I'm sure there are things we have differing opinions on, but what is happening in this thread is proof that common ground can always be found and it's never out of style to respect one another! Especially considering you're a man, I'm a woman and this entire thread spells 'battle of the sexes', lol.

Thank you, there is always common ground just some folk struggle to see it sometimes, always extremes in any situation.
You have been a brilliant contribution to this thread as well, being female but also recognising my clumsily phrased points in the OP, while using reasoned argument, how ATS should be compared to FB.

As you said earlier it is about basic respect. I don't believe there are many people who genuinely hate people because of their gender, male, female, or whatever the alphabet soup is these days. I live in a place where gay/trans/whatever acronym, is pretty much accepted. People can walk down the streets, hold hands, and nobody bats an eyelid. Our gay clubs closed down years ago when they became redundant as mainstream people stopped being bigoted.

Trans women get in free at nightclubs here as well, and I could jump the queue if I put a dress and sparkly make up on such is the tolerance here. I wouldn't though, I'd make the crappest looking attempt of a female even with Hollywood fashion/make up teams working on me lol.

Clicked wrong button lol

a reply to: SprocketUK

Juliette Binoche and Audrey Fleurot start that thing in my head again

heck yeah, but you forgot Mélanie Laurentm Sophie Marceau, Marion Cotillard.