New Study: Being Transgender Is Not A Mental Disorder

I think it would be interesting if we discussed that this thread title states a new study has found that transgerderism is not a mental disorder but that there is no such study. Everyone seems to be putting forward views of all sorts of things they approve or disapprove of, agree or disagree with - that is the risk taken when creating a thread like this and always has been - but few have commented on the actual OP.

a reply to: GusMcDangerthing

Or perhaps we could discuss that the Time Magazine article linked in the OP does in fact cite a peer reviewed paper published in the Lancet Journal of Psychology. The only actual error by the OP is that the study is from July 2016 and not this year. But that would have required reading the linked article and reading the paper cited and why do that when it's easier to dismiss it out of hand. Furthermore, the DSM V now distinguishes between being Transgendered and having Gender Dysphoria. So actually, yes, some of us have been discussing the OP and the information presented therein.

Here's a direct link to the paper in question-

Lancet Study

a reply to: peter vlar

There was no peer-reviewed article linked, merely a piece by an author for Time magazine which implies that which I mentioned in my first comment on this thread that apparently being mean ti people affects their mental health and I'm very surprised they needed to conduct a study to figure that out. What geniuses.

Thank you for the direct link to the study that I do not believe the OP properly addresses and that I also don't think they have actually looked at. That is why the attitude.

a reply to: AMPTAH

exactly you nailed it !

everything in the universe is natural

creative or destructive it is all a part of nature

life and death is natural

originally posted by: GusMcDangerthing
a reply to: peter vlar

There was no peer-reviewed article linked, merely a piece by an author for Time magazine which implies that which I mentioned in my first comment on this thread that apparently being mean ti people affects their mental health and I'm very surprised they needed to conduct a study to figure that out. What geniuses.

Thank you for the direct link to the study that I do not believe the OP properly addresses and that I also don't think they have actually looked at. That is why the attitude.

For what it's worth, I totally understand your frustration and I have the same response in most science based threads or with anyone refuting science. Show your citations or # up. So I totally see your point here. However, the paper itself was cited in the time article and at least when I went through it, there was a hyperlink in the article to the paper, that's how I found it. Either way, it's here now. But yes, it should have been directly linked 3 dozen pages ago. I got a little sidetracked with people ignoring legitimate science based on genetics and biology and had I been a little more clear minded, I would have picked up on the missing paper itself and posted it. So my apologies if my attitude clashed with yours when in the end it was a minor issue that could have been easily addressed 2 days ago. It's ironic that I was so focused on supporting this paper with other peer reviewed works that I never thought to list the paper cited in the OP for comparison so I'll take the responsibility for that slip up.

Though to address your specific comments, the point of talking about how people treating you as a subhuman and it's affects on ones mental well being is the basis for the DSM V differentiating between gender Dysphoria and simply
being Transgendered because many Transgendered individuals do just fine with a positive support system in place. It's the ones who are disowned, sexually assaulted, taunted, tormented and so on who become despondent, suicidal and suffer from depression and other mental health issues. Which as you say... no duh! Of course that's an obvious outcome!

But studies like this firmly refute pandered "studies" put forth by anti gay and anti Transgendered researchers like John Hopkins own Dr. McHugh who don't utilize the scientific method and instead focus on confirmation bias. If the outcome were different and the scientific method were followed, then I would be backing what the science actually indicates as I am with this paper and others that have reached the same conclusions.

It doesn't support the inane bigotry that seems to stem from people's conservative religious principles and not actual conservative political ideologies but that's a whole different conversation lol

Anyway, hope the link helps further the conversation in an appropriate fashion and I'm glad I could finally give it to
You to review for yourself instead of it being filtered through the lense of a Time Magazine reporter.

originally posted by: peter vlar

originally posted by: GusMcDangerthing
a reply to: peter vlar

There was no peer-reviewed article linked, merely a piece by an author for Time magazine which implies that which I mentioned in my first comment on this thread that apparently being mean ti people affects their mental health and I'm very surprised they needed to conduct a study to figure that out. What geniuses.

Thank you for the direct link to the study that I do not believe the OP properly addresses and that I also don't think they have actually looked at. That is why the attitude.

For what it's worth, I totally understand your frustration and I have the same response in most science based threads or with anyone refuting science. Show your citations or # up. So I totally see your point here. However, the paper itself was cited in the time article and at least when I went through it, there was a hyperlink in the article to the paper, that's how I found it. Either way, it's here now. But yes, it should have been directly linked 3 dozen pages ago. I got a little sidetracked with people ignoring legitimate science based on genetics and biology and had I been a little more clear minded, I would have picked up on the missing paper itself and posted it. So my apologies if my attitude clashed with yours when in the end it was a minor issue that could have been easily addressed 2 days ago. It's ironic that I was so focused on supporting this paper with other peer reviewed works that I never thought to list the paper cited in the OP for comparison so I'll take the responsibility for that slip up.

Though to address your specific comments, the point of talking about how people treating you as a subhuman and it's affects on ones mental well being is the basis for the DSM V differentiating between gender Dysphoria and simply
being Transgendered because many Transgendered individuals do just fine with a positive support system in place. It's the ones who are disowned, sexually assaulted, taunted, tormented and so on who become despondent, suicidal and suffer from depression and other mental health issues. Which as you say... no duh! Of course that's an obvious outcome!

But studies like this firmly refute pandered "studies" put forth by anti gay and anti Transgendered researchers like John Hopkins own Dr. McHugh who don't utilize the scientific method and instead focus on confirmation bias. If the outcome were different and the scientific method were followed, then I would be backing what the science actually indicates as I am with this paper and others that have reached the same conclusions.

It doesn't support the inane bigotry that seems to stem from people's conservative religious principles and not actual conservative political ideologies but that's a whole different conversation lol

Anyway, hope the link helps further the conversation in an appropriate fashion and I'm glad I could finally give it to
You to review for yourself instead of it being filtered through the lense of a Time Magazine reporter.

Fantastic post, Peter.

You are always a voice of intellect and reason in these threads. I completely agree with you, a lot of the problem with threads like these (or those based in refuting/being against these principles) will use an article alone as a means of proving they're right. When instead, it's important to make a final decision on 'evidence' and 'proof' based on the actual academic report itself, versus someone taking that final research of a study or scientific venture and writing an article about it. Sure, there will be some articles that may accurately summarize the findings within the scientific research, but there will also be those that write articles to push an agenda of, like you said, confirmation bias.

So, it's extremely important to double check the actual sources of the article. Unfortunately, I've seen a lot of articles posted on both ends of the 'belief spectrum' that do not cite the actual report in which they're writing about. Those article writers definitely should, but luckily we have the internet at our fingertips and for most, I'd say that if one digs a little, it wouldn't be too hard to find the actual report in question.

Again, fantastic post and thanks for linking the actual report!

your post shows you OBVIOUSLY did NOT read the original post...250 transgender in the study ...and let THIS sink in A separate 2012 study found that 57% of transgender youth who did not have supportive parents attempted to commit suicide in the past year, while just 4% of transgender youth with "very supportive" parents did.

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

I think the science is still out and is not completely understood to make any conclusions. These kind of studies can be swayed to hit an agenda.

How many people where in the study? Might have missed it

Making this a social issues and discrediting the possibility of this actually being a mental disorder doesn't help a community with a massive suicide rate.

excellent post!! I will say to those who keep freaking out and saying the children are SOOOOOO easily influnced to think that they are the wrong sex....logic says if that is true shouldn't it be JUST AS EASY to sway them back ??? the truth is THIS IS NOT THE CASE as stated in the post post below that I quoted...they persist FOR years, YEARS of therapy..YEARS of parents doing EVERYTING under the sun to get them to match their sex.

If it is just a "WHIM" and they are SO EASILY MANIPULATED...by logic it should not be a problem at all, it should be so easy to just get them back on track...and we know that IS NOT THE CASE

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: redhorse

Yes you are going in circles. Nobody is pushing this on children. What would the purpose be anyway? Nobody ever presented any evidence of them deliberately confusing the children.
You might need to study gender dysphoria a little more. It is about the persistence of gender identity. No matter how much the parents try to force them to be of their biological sex, children with gender dysphoria will persist. And the force upon them by the parents and society is what causes "distress". Yes that is a legitimate term. "Persistence" and "distress" are in DSM-5.

a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

You keep sweet talking me like that and I just might have to take you up on that offer to run away together!

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

You keep sweet talking me like that and I just might have to take you up on that offer to run away together!

Haha, you remembered!
Offer still stands, lol.

I'm truly amazed. So my question to everybody in this thread is:

What with awareness for people who think they're aliens or abducted by aliens? Where is their acceptance movement?
If transgender is no mental illness then surely the aliens are right also, not?
To me there is absolutely no difference. You say you're a woman in a mens body, but where is your evidence?

Delusion, hallucinations alienation, all of those live better if their environment, family, friends, believes them and accept them. That proves sh1t.

I just want to send some love to anyone reading this that is LBGT.

Not all people are close minded. Don't let people pull you down.

My niece married her wife last year and I'll tell you one thing I know for sure. Nobody would ever choose the harder path in life of being LBGT. Who would? Seriously.

Don't give up on yourselves.

And to all the homophobe/transgenderphobes. Get on with your own lives and let others live theirs.

a reply to: Peeple

The evidence has been presented multiple times in this thread alone. Your strawman analogy is ridiculous, but I'm pretty sure you already know that. There's no physical evidence of aliens living among us or hybridizing with humans. I can take a cheek swab or a blood sample and see if a person has any genetic issues underlying the individuals Transgendered status. There isn't anything of the sort to support your ludicrous analogy.

As to your closing statement, you obviously didn't read the linked article or the paper that it cites, let alone the multiple papers and links I and others have posted throughout the thread. Nobody chooses to be transgendered any more than someone chooses to be gay.

originally posted by: proloz
I just want to send some love to anyone reading this that is LBGT.

Not all people are close minded. Don't let people pull you down.

My niece married her wife last year and I'll tell you one thing I know for sure. Nobody would ever choose the harder path in life of being LBGT. Who would? Seriously.

Don't give up on yourselves.

And to all the homophobe/transgenderphobes. Get on with your own lives and let others live theirs.

Very touching!

Thank you for sharing that message of love.

We need far more of that around here.

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: Peeple

The evidence has been presented multiple times in this thread alone. Your strawman analogy is ridiculous, but I'm pretty sure you already know that. There's no physical evidence of aliens living among us or hybridizing with humans. I can take a cheek swab or a blood sample and see if a person has any genetic issues underlying the individuals Transgendered status. There isn't anything of the sort to support your ludicrous analogy.

As to your closing statement, you obviously didn't read the linked article or the paper that it cites, let alone the multiple papers and links I and others have posted throughout the thread. Nobody chooses to be transgendered any more than someone chooses to be gay.

Exactly. I was a bit taken aback by their post. I had to reread it a couple of times to realize they were legitimately trying to compare those that are trans with people who think they're aliens....Even as I typed that very sentence, I was shaking my head.

originally posted by: research100
your post shows you OBVIOUSLY did NOT read the original post...250 transgender in the study ...and let THIS sink in A separate 2012 study found that 57% of transgender youth who did not have supportive parents attempted to commit suicide in the past year, while just 4% of transgender youth with "very supportive" parents did.

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

I think the science is still out and is not completely understood to make any conclusions. These kind of studies can be swayed to hit an agenda.

How many people where in the study? Might have missed it

Making this a social issues and discrediting the possibility of this actually being a mental disorder doesn't help a community with a massive suicide rate.

I was asking how many people were in the study, thanks for the response. Also 250 people not a big study to make a conclusion so now revert back to my op.

So yes transgender people have a high suicide rate even after surgery so making time magazine assumptions isn't healthy or helpful to people who need help.

a reply to: JDmOKI

Transgender people make for under 1% of the population.

the question can only be analyzed by filtering out external factors, such as psychological abuse, forced feminization through medication, chemical castration, steroid abuse in the competitive body building industry, xenoestrogens in polymer binders used to line myriad household products, shifts in the phytoestrogen content of diets such as an increase in soya products, and of course, genetic and birth defects where there are physical symptoms such as XXY and XYY mutations.

Having isolated the subjects from these groups, we can ask, does the existence of a person boil down to their body, their mind, or their mind and body? If it is merely their body, then the transgender claims have no case. If however, our society only valued bodies, then human labor would be reduced to trained apes, elephants, and oxen. Beasts of burden, defined as valued for their raw biological capacities.

It is conclusive that human beings have a mental element that helps define them. An identity. When you think, you have a voice in your head that recites the words with intonation. When you dream, you have an avatar of yourself, as how you perceive yourself. When you look in the mirror, you have a belief of identifying your body as coherent and matching, or out of sorts.

There is also an element of envy. Gender envy is certainly as commonplace as Wealth or Status envy. Riches, or Fame have exemplars, like movie stars and billionaires. Royalty and Kings, Warlords and Tribal Leaders. Pack Alphas.

Certainly, a person who claims they are transsexual because of gender envy should not be classified as such, on the same basis that you do not simply hand someone a multinational corporation and mansion on the grounds that they envy the CEO of Apple or Tesla. Wanting to be, or be like something is not the same as identifying as that thing.

That's what the section about the mirror and avatar is about. Who you are in your dream, and when you wake, the consistency there, and how you think about yourself, and interact, that is identity. But There is a difference between a plastic surgeon correcting damage, or making someone relatively beautiful, and making someone rich.
A rich person is a person with an identity who also has material goods. A surgeon or therapist, given unlimited power to transform based on claim of identity, such as through advanced neurosurgery and nanotechnology scheduled to appear in the next 20 years, would under no circumstances have the power to make material wealth or status out of that claim of "identity = possessions".

If you thought you were someone else, a plastic surgeon could make you identical to that person, and a neurosurgeon 20-50 years from now could make you believe it, but the rules of body autonomy dictate that the identity you claim stops at your skin; meaning everyone else would still see the original as possessing those resources, talents, family relationships, friends, and networks. We could call this the "appeal to Elvis" clause. Hundreds of people dress, act, and even sing like Elvis. Many call themselves Elvis, many even look like Elvis. They are not Elvis.

Elvis is an identity that is outside the scope of transformation through medical technology like plastic surgery. It fits in the same box as wealth and fame, and is a unique identity, to which if you thought yourself as such, you would be thinking you were someone other than you, meaning your own identity were lost. That is a psychological illness, not an identity crisis that can be solved via therapy and medicine.

Because gender identity will at some point be a correctable condition where a single individual of appearance and sex A can, through medical intervention, become appearance and sex B, there is no issue, as their unique identity is still their own, and their resources, wealth, fame, etc., are not subject to envy. This becomes more questionable when the person attempts to look like a specific person. That is not to say using various existing people's appearance as a palette for the surgeon does not apply, such as person C's nose, person D's jawline, etc., however, if you go to the doctor and say you must come out looking like an identical twin or person C, such as a neighbor, actor, or person of interest, then you are abusing the gender identity crisis to fulfill a wish based on the envy of another person's identity, and that is morally ambiguous at best.