Hello fellow ATSers from abroad (not the United States)

a reply to: Sheye

yes, they had "wars" against each other just as Whites had wars against each other to gain land.

So since they both "warred" or "fought"...lets wash it (im being facetious bc its history and we really should not wash out anything but lets just say)...

The Native American spiritualism was much more peaceful than the white mans religion.

And trying to claim that the Native Americans were a barbaric people and the white settlers were not is asinine.

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: Sheye

yes, they had "wars" against each other just as Whites had wars against each other to gain land.

So since they both "warred" or "fought"...lets wash it (im being facetious bc its history and we really should not wash out anything but lets just say)...

The Native American spiritualism was much more peaceful than the white mans religion.

And trying to claim that the Native Americans were a barbaric people and the white settlers were not is asinine.

If their spirituality was so peaceful , why did they war against each other before white man came along and why do they still hold such deep grudges between certain tribes ?

Doesn't sound so peaceful to me 😕

a reply to: Sheye

Im sorry you cannot wash out the wars in this scenario and just look at their spirituality (perhaps you know nothing of Native American spirituality and therefore should not be commenting) and christian religion.

Im also sorry that what you perceive as a "grudge" is not allowing you to get past the trees to look at the forest (that was a figure of speech).

You seem like you could be sweet IRL but your energy on this board is draining me and I do not wish to converse with you.

thanks and have a great day.

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: Sheye

Im sorry you cannot wash out the wars in this scenario and just look at their spirituality (perhaps you know nothing of Native American spirituality and therefore should not be commenting) and christian religion.

Im also sorry that what you perceive as a "grudge" is not allowing you to get past the trees to look at the forest (that was a figure of speech).

You seem like you could be sweet IRL but your energy on this board is draining me and I do not wish to converse with you.

thanks and have a great day.

I do know a bit about native spirituality , have been to pow wows , and my sister is heavily involved with their spirituality as well as the healing of residential abuse.

Their spirituality has flaws as much as Christianity does .. so please don't play the "native spirituality is so much better " card.

I've seen and heard of things that some natives do that would make your hair curl. The native gangs up here are brutal and in no way " spiritually peaceful" ... and because of certain laws passed concerning effects of residential abuse they literally get away with murder at times. Natives get a lot of breaks concerning breaking the laws around here.

a reply to: Sheye

the "Native Spirituality" that I speak of does not so much exist now...it was killed off by the whites.

That is my point in all this banter, sorry it was missed.

What the Native Americans forcibly mixed with white culture is now...I know nothing of.

The Natives I see today are drunks (just as Eskimos, Native Americans cannot hold their liquor...sad) and/or paraded around in full headdress and "indian" clothing to entertain for the whites. With that said, i dont see many.

What did the Native Americans need liquor for...their spirits were already high...the pioneers probably brought it to America.

They are not who they once were. There are still many traditions handed down but their souls...collectively are down.

this correspondence about Native Americans has opened my eyes about the political difference of the view of Native Americans. I honestly thought we were all on the same page about our Native American Ancestors...that they were treated unfairly and it was a mistake hopefully not to be made again.

I can see now that the extreme right citizens still demonize the Native Americans and hold onto any excuse to throw malice towards them while the left is sickened by how they were treated and what was lost with their extermination.

I know the political parties are conflicted with many issues, but this one I thought we could all agree on. Its a sad day for me to realize that is not the case.

I half way understand (although completely disagree) why dumbass president trump put the Andrew Jackson bust back up in the whitehouse.

www.alternet.org...

(i dont expect many extreme deplorables (like trump) to read this article for reading is a least favorite thing to do, but I place it here just in case)

originally posted by: veracity
this correspondence about Native Americans has opened my eyes about the political difference of the view of Native Americans. I honestly thought we were all on the same page about our Native American Ancestors...that they were treated unfairly and it was a mistake hopefully not to be made again.

I can see now that the extreme right citizens still demonize the Native Americans and hold onto any excuse to throw malice towards them while the left is sickened by how they were treated and what was lost with their extermination.

I know the political parties are conflicted with many issues, but this one I thought we could all agree on. Its a sad day for me to realize that is not the case.

I half way understand (although completely disagree) why dumbass president trump put the Andrew Jackson bust back up in the whitehouse.

www.alternet.org...

(i dont expect many extreme deplorables (like trump) to read this article for reading is a least favorite thing to do, but I place it here just in case)

Many types of people have been treated unfairly in histrory including ( shock) .. white folks.
Many of us " white folk " are tired of the rhetoric of native Canadians saying we stole their land. The chiefs traded it willingly for goods... and guess what ? .. when I talk to natives here about what is happening on reserves ... they all say the same thing. The chiefs and their families are the ones driving new trucks , while the reserves and it's people are struggling.

And to insinuate I hate natives is pretty low veracity. I would not have hung out with them, been generous to them had that been the case. It was natives who explained to me how much contention there has been with certain tribes dating from way back.

I have native friends that clearly see the shams perpetuated by their own even in their spirituality.
Pow wows were meant to be a way to thank and pray to your ancestors.. a beautiful prayer it is... but it has been reduced to ego and cash prizes for best dancer in certain categories.

There are many natives that agree with me on this . Are you going to call them names as well
Veracity.

I could go on, and I might unless you stop putting down honesty as some ridiculous right wing agenda.

a reply to: Sheye

whites have never been exterminated

sorry i used the word hate...did i use that word?

Perhaps you do not "hate" on them but you certainly not owning up to what the white man did to them in the past. Not that you should feel bad, it wasnt "YOU", but to say it never happened and to say whites were also treated unfairly and that the natives were very barbaric does not hold to much compassion for what really happened.

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: Sheye

whites have never been exterminated

sorry i used the word hate...did i use that word?

Perhaps you do not "hate" on them but you certainly not owning up to what the white man did to them in the past. Not that you should feel bad, it wasnt "YOU", but to say it never happened and to say whites were also treated unfairly and that the natives were very barbaric does not hold to much compassion for what really happened.

Were the natives exterminated ?

The ratio of natives in Canada seems to prove otherwise.

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: Sheye

whites have never been exterminated

sorry i used the word hate...did i use that word?

Perhaps you do not "hate" on them but you certainly not owning up to what the white man did to them in the past. Not that you should feel bad, it wasnt "YOU", but to say it never happened and to say whites were also treated unfairly and that the natives were very barbaric does not hold to much compassion for what really happened.

Were the natives exterminated ?

The ratio of natives in Canada seems to prove otherwise.

Im talking about Native Americans, not CAnadians or how sad and awful the whites had it.

We are on 2 different pages, but thanks for talking with m e

a reply to: veracity

Perhaps you do not "hate" on them but you certainly not owning up to what the white man did to them in the past.

Owning up to what? Conquering them and taking their land?
Or were countries set up in other ways I am not aware of?
Love your use of "the white man" as well; lets us know where you come from.

a reply to: veracity

whites have never been exterminated

Armenians would disagree with you.

a reply to: thesaneone

Those gassed during ww2 as well.

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: Sheye

whites have never been exterminated

sorry i used the word hate...did i use that word?

Perhaps you do not "hate" on them but you certainly not owning up to what the white man did to them in the past. Not that you should feel bad, it wasnt "YOU", but to say it never happened and to say whites were also treated unfairly and that the natives were very barbaric does not hold to much compassion for what really happened.

Were the natives exterminated ?

The ratio of natives in Canada seems to prove otherwise.

Im talking about Native Americans, not CAnadians or how sad and awful the whites had it.

We are on 2 different pages, but thanks for talking with m e

So you are saying native americans in US were exterminated ? How did so many make it up to Canada if that is the case.
How many Native Americans in the US today ? Do you know the populace of these exterminated souls?

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Native Americans were violent...yes. I do NOT disagree with that.

If your family and neighborhood were being attacked, raped, pillaged... wouldnt you be violent?

They fought back...for survival.

In 4th grade playground terms...the Whites killed first

What part of 'pre-state' and 'pre-colonial' did you misunderstand in the links I provided? THE WHITES HADN'T ARRIVED IN THE AMERICAS WHEN THE TRIBES WERE SLAUGHTERING EACH OTHER. The peaceful and one with nature myth is bullroar. They were just as self centered, violent, and assholish as any other collective of humanity has ever been.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

The collective indigenous people were slaughtered by the invaders though. That isn't even a question.
Their own individual warfare between themselves is irrelevant really when people not from that land invaded.
The Natives were used and screwed by the European invaders.

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: Sheye

whites have never been exterminated.

Neither were the indians. At least not by Europeans. Plenty of smaller tribes in the southwest were sure exterminated when the Mayans were grabbing any and all humans they could get their hands on to sacrifice to their various gods in hopes of the droughts and pandemics that were killing their society ending. There's that "one with nature, peaceful spirituality again... tell me this, when was the last time Judaism, Christianity, or hell even Islam practiced wide scale human sacrifice? Oh yeah, they never did that. But my goodness the false narrative of peace and oneness must be defended regardless of how blatantly imaginary it is, ya?
slaveryinjustice.wordpress.com...

originally posted by: InceyWincey
a reply to: burdman30ott6

The collective indigenous people were slaughtered by the invaders though. That isn't even a question.
Their own individual warfare between themselves is irrelevant really when people not from that land invaded.
The Natives were used and screwed by the European invaders.

Yes, and? That's what conquering societies do. It's also what built this country which I happen to live in, so I'm not about to sit here and shed crocodile tears over events that have happened throughout human history. The strong conquer the weak... it has always been so. Europeans had the numbers, Indians lost the battle, the globe continues to spin.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Theres a good movie I forget its name set in the 1500's-1600's where a tribe converts to Christianity loses its warrior ways then of course gets slaughtered by one of the more tough tribes still out there....it sort of resonates because western society is now weak and its manifest destiny will now probably be similar. No preacher wants to tell you Samson killed 1000 with a jawbone and sometimes you have to fight or you die,Jesus might be coming back but if you read it for yourself the formalities are pretty nasty.

originally posted by: khnum
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Theres a good movie I forget its name set in the 1500's-1600's where a tribe converts to Christianity loses its warrior ways then of course gets slaughtered by one of the more tough tribes still out there....it sort of resonates because western society is now weak and its manifest destiny will now probably be similar. No preacher wants to tell you Samson killed 1000 with a jawbone and sometimes you have to fight or you die,Jesus might be coming back but if you read it for yourself the formalities are pretty nasty.

So much for native spirituality being so much more peaceful than Christianity...🙄