Hello fellow ATSers from abroad (not the United States)

originally posted by: ker2010
Y'all deserve everything you get for being so damn stupid and PC to the very obvious threats of mass Islamic immigration. You'd rather be killed than called a racist. Pathetic.

and you're right. and i'm european.
However, as i'm from romania, i can tell you almost nobody here cares about being called a racist, because we are racist: we strongly discriminate against gypsies - there are few efforts made to help them integrate into society, but for most part it is easier for them to continue acting the way they have for hundreds of years. they resist and deny the help given.
The EU adopted the 'freedom, equality, and fraternity" slogan used by the French, and therefore they feel they must act that way towards the mass islamic immigration. Romanians always tried to keep them at bay from Europe [check the romanian history records] and we refuse to take them in. well i think they wouldnt want to come here anyways because we're a very poor country [all thanks to the corrupt leaders we deserve for being a little bit stupid and ignorant]... but western Europe sure deserves it [they discriminate against us from eastern europe as well, all thanks to the communist regime we've been sold to at the end of WW2]

there is a lot of grudge here in europe, and many try to wipe it under the carpet, but it won't last for long.

a reply to: Kryscent

The roots of racism lie deep in man's nature, wounded and bruised by original sin.

Sargent Shriver

a reply to: Kryscent

Thank you for your opinion

Dont worry, honesty does not insult, positive criticism is great!

It may only insult the alt-right drumpf supporters and you will hear from them probably soon. They are a small minority but unfortunately the loudest.

People who were forced to vote for trump (i say that bc Hilary was not a shining option) do not neccessarily support trump. See, we only have 2 options in the United States, Democrat or Republican.

I really do not like what the DNC did to Bernie Sanders (suppressed his coverage in the US so Hillary would be the nominee) but I know that Hillary would have been a much better leader than trump. The die-hard trumpsters of course disagree and think he is a glowing god and that Hillary is a murderer (they always bring up Benghazi), which is NOT in any way blood on Hillary's hands...but they like to think it is bc it fits their agenda.


Your post was very insightful. It was also very interesting to get a glimpse into your country through you, thanks again

originally posted by: Kryscent

originally posted by: ker2010
Y'all deserve everything you get for being so damn stupid and PC to the very obvious threats of mass Islamic immigration. You'd rather be killed than called a racist. Pathetic.

and you're right. and i'm european.
However, as i'm from romania, i can tell you almost nobody here cares about being called a racist, because we are racist: we strongly discriminate against gypsies - there are few efforts made to help them integrate into society, but for most part it is easier for them to continue acting the way they have for hundreds of years. they resist and deny the help given.

The EU adopted the 'freedom, equality, and fraternity" slogan used by the French, and therefore they feel they must act that way towards the mass islamic immigration. Romanians always tried to keep them at bay from Europe [check the romanian history records] and we refuse to take them in. well i think they wouldnt want to come here anyways because we're a very poor country [all thanks to the corrupt leaders we deserve for being a little bit

 

stupid and ignorant]... but western Europe sure deserves it [they discriminate against us from eastern europe as well, all thanks to the communist regime we've been sold to at the end of WW2]

there is a lot of grudge here in europe, and many try to wipe it under the carpet, but it won't last for long.

Gypsies? integrate them into your system?

Like the US did with the Indians?

are you going to steal their babies and adopt them to what you think are much better parents for the integration process?

a reply to: ErrorErrorError

Quoting this post just to allow other ATS members to see just how disgusting human beings can be sometimes. Even on ATS. It baffles me how you're still not banned from this forum

Typical response from a cetnik . Evil NATO durpy durpy durp. They should have nuked Serbia, that would have probably be the only right thing NATO ever did. Germany was never involved in any ME wars

originally posted by: ErrorErrorError

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: ErrorErrorError

Oh, shut up please, as if the UK, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Belgium and other's didn't participate in those same actions for which you accuse the United States of.

The truth is, the whole NATO is responsible.

Typical response from a cetnik . Evil NATO durpy durpy durp. They should have nuked Serbia, that would have probably be the only right thing NATO ever did. Germany was never involved in any ME wars

Germany sends 1200 troops to the ME

Germany will deploy up to 1,200 troops to the Middle East as part of a multi-million euro mission to support the fight against Isis after the plans were approved by MPs. The Bundestag voted on the move this morning, supporting Angela Merkel’s proposal to send six Tornado reconnaissance jets and refuelling aircraft, a frigate to protect a French aircraft carrier and the supporting soldiers .

They may not be planning to shoot but they are there to support and protect the people that are, also Nuke Serbia... seriously I disagreed with pretty much everything they did during the civil war, still do not think they deserved to be nuked.

originally posted by: veracity
Gypsies? integrate them into your system?

Like the US did with the Indians?

are you going to steal their babies and adopt them to what you think are much better parents for the integration process?

please excuse my ignorance, but i'm not aware what US did to the Indians' babies. i remember seeing a movie once, about a woman of Native American roots [her mother was from some tribe, but i'm not sure about her dad, and she was trying to find her family, and she did it, but it was hard for her to integrate into her mother's community. can't remember the details, it's been a long time]... and other than that movie i am not educated enough on the topic..

by integration, i mean this:
-the law says employers are not to discriminate against candidates based on religion, skin color, gender, sexual orientation, gender, race... so this means that if a qualified gypsy woman wants the job, the employer must hire her, if there is nobody else better qualified. [of course there are people who will say someone else is better than this gypsy woman].. if she's smart and courageous enough she could cause these bosses lots of problems, but his rarely happens.
- all children of schooling age, regardless of race, gender and religion must attend school. gypsy children coming from very poor families rarely make it to high school. these kids have the right to go to any school they desire, and the school's administration cannot place these kids in a separate classroom [to segregate them].

i dont think romanians want to adopt babies/children in general. i dont think they see themselves as better parents than the birth parents of any abandoned baby/child. if they adopt, it's because they couldnt have their own baby.

i sure hope nobody wants to steal babies for the reason you mentioned. but babies, children, and adults have been kidnapped in the past by gypsies for human trafficking purposes, so, i dont know what to reply there more than this... [i believe last year or 2 years ago they discovered gypsy slave owners in some village where gypsies lived..]

a reply to: Kryscent

Ive never had bad connotations to gypsies and envied their freedom in a way. Im sure they have their bad apples, just like every group has them.

The Indian Child Welfare Act of 1978 (not that long ago and they were Native Americans not Indians) gave the right of removal of children from their Native American families to be adopted by non-native american families to aid in integration. They thought the children of Native Americans were better off integrated into the system.

As you can imagine, this was horrifying. Im not sure if it can be compared to your gypsies, but the Native Americans have been treated horribly since Christopher Columbus came over and started slaughtering them. Then Andrew Jackson would take their land, give them new land, then take that land...over and over again until he had to order the execution of them to get them out of the way.

Then the govt took their babies away.

Native Americans were peaceful and did not bother anyone. It make me very sad to talk about it and think about what the country would be like if they were not slaughtered.

originally posted by: veracity
Native Americans were peaceful and did not bother anyone. It make me very sad to talk about it and think about what the country would be like if they were not slaughtered.

Can we please at least be honest enough to drop the "Noble Savage" romanticized BS from the modern dialogue? The Indians warred, raped, and enslaved the hell out of each other long before Columbus sailed to the Americas. This idea that they did not is a pure Hollywood invention, attempting initially to paint them as some sort of curious mystical group that lived in complete harmony with nature in an absence of a Christian God, granting them a sort of supernatural interest from a sheltered American protestant society. Later the same studios massaged the narrative a bit to push an agenda of making modern Americans feel guilt for doing what every culture has always done through history: asserting dominance and claiming properties the previous claimants were unable to defend.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: veracity
Native Americans were peaceful and did not bother anyone. It make me very sad to talk about it and think about what the country would be like if they were not slaughtered.

Can we please at least be honest enough to drop the "Noble Savage" romanticized BS from the modern dialogue? The Indians warred, raped, and enslaved the hell out of each other long before Columbus sailed to the Americas. This idea that they did not is a pure Hollywood invention, attempting initially to paint them as some sort of curious mystical group that lived in complete harmony with nature in an absence of a Christian God, granting them a sort of supernatural interest from a sheltered American protestant society. Later the same studios massaged the narrative a bit to push an agenda of making modern Americans feel guilt for doing what every culture has always done through history: asserting dominance and claiming properties the previous claimants were unable to defend.

Thank you for an honest post !!! Truth is truth !

a reply to: burdman30ott6

im pretty sure your vision is mostly hollywood invention, and as any group, im sure they had their bad apples.

Their spirituality and visions were peaceful.

I dont think modern Americans should feel guilty, the people who should fee guilty are already dead.

So you think that anyone with an absence of a Christian god cannot live peacefully? sorry, translation may get lost in texts but thats what I believe i am reading.

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: veracity
Native Americans were peaceful and did not bother anyone. It make me very sad to talk about it and think about what the country would be like if they were not slaughtered.

Can we please at least be honest enough to drop the "Noble Savage" romanticized BS from the modern dialogue? The Indians warred, raped, and enslaved the hell out of each other long before Columbus sailed to the Americas. This idea that they did not is a pure Hollywood invention, attempting initially to paint them as some sort of curious mystical group that lived in complete harmony with nature in an absence of a Christian God, granting them a sort of supernatural interest from a sheltered American protestant society. Later the same studios massaged the narrative a bit to push an agenda of making modern Americans feel guilt for doing what every culture has always done through history: asserting dominance and claiming properties the previous claimants were unable to defend.

Thank you for an honest post !!! Truth is truth !

what you think is truth is usually bs

a reply to: veracity

Now how is it you know that is the opinion of "most" Americans? By your own admission you don't travel, or not much, so how is it you have such a learned opinion on what "most" Americans think?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
... an agenda of making modern Americans feel guilt for doing what every culture has always done through history: asserting dominance and claiming properties the previous claimants were unable to defend.

You make it sound as though every side that loses a battle deserved it and every conquered nation had it coming.

a reply to: veracity

No, you misread. What I was saying is that the mythos of Indian "spirituality" was largely a Hollywood construct that put butts in seats. Those butts were fascinated by portrayal of mystical spirituality in absence of a Christian God.

I've got history (both personal and family) in Indian country... while not all of it is BS, a lot of this "at peace, one with nature" business is total smoke and vapor. They were survivalists, not spiritualists. And warring between the tribes wasn't "a few bad apples" it was their way of life. The Comanche, Apaches, Sioux, Cherokee, the Ojibwe... all would have sooner cut another warrior's head off than have a sit down talk of peace and nature with them. The Anasazi chopped down every tree in Chaco Canyon to build their communities... these trees never came back. Lookup a potlatch sometime... the tribes who celebrated it tended to turn them into parties of oppulence and wanton waste... and this was long before the "white man" came to America to teach them of such foreign concepts. Most of the virtues attributed to the tribes in relation to their "in harmony with nature" claims can also be directly attributed to ANY settler who pushed a wagon west into the pioneer lands. Those settlers used all the parts of the animals they killed too, they also used seasonal clues to tell them when to plant and when to harvest, they did what was needed to survive.

I'm not throwing hate on the Indians here. I'm simply saying that society has romanticized the Indians of old to mythical status when, in reality, they were just other humans who's crap stunk just like everyone else's did.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
... an agenda of making modern Americans feel guilt for doing what every culture has always done through history: asserting dominance and claiming properties the previous claimants were unable to defend.

You make it sound as though every side that loses a battle deserved it and every conquered nation had it coming.

Well... "deserved" and "had it coming" aren't the words I'd use. Every side that loses a battle loses a battle and to the victors go the spoils. I'm simply not applying modern morality to a history in which it truly was survival of the fittest. The strong survive, the weak die, the wheel in the sky keeps turning.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
I'm not throwing hate on the Indians here. I'm simply saying that society has romanticized the Indians of old to mythical status when, in reality, they were just other humans who's crap stunk just like everyone else's did.

But what's interesting is how at the same time that you are criticising other's portrayal of the lifeways of your First Nations, you are also summing them up through your own particular set of filters. You really would have a lot to gain by sitting down with a respected Elder and having this conversation. Not a new-age phony, but if you have any Indigenous pals, maybe they can fix you up.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
I'm not throwing hate on the Indians here. I'm simply saying that society has romanticized the Indians of old to mythical status when, in reality, they were just other humans who's crap stunk just like everyone else's did.

But what's interesting is how at the same time that you are criticising other's portrayal of the lifeways of your First Nations, you are also summing them up through your own particular set of filters. You really would have a lot to gain by sitting down with a respected Elder and having this conversation. Not a new-age phony, but if you have any Indigenous pals, maybe they can fix you up.

LOL, in case you didn't notice, my set of filters was formed by having experiences, both family and personal, within various Indian communities. It continues here in Alaska, where I interact with them daily.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
I'm not throwing hate on the Indians here. I'm simply saying that society has romanticized the Indians of old to mythical status when, in reality, they were just other humans who's crap stunk just like everyone else's did.

But what's interesting is how at the same time that you are criticising other's portrayal of the lifeways of your First Nations, you are also summing them up through your own particular set of filters. You really would have a lot to gain by sitting down with a respected Elder and having this conversation. Not a new-age phony, but if you have any Indigenous pals, maybe they can fix you up.

LOL, in case you didn't notice, my set of filters was formed by having experiences, both family and personal, within various Indian communities. It continues here in Alaska, where I interact with them daily.

I agree with much of what you said about the romanticism. Still, I did notice that I could take issue with a lot of what you said about the FN experience. Like I said, if you care, then you'll ask within the community and hope you're taken seriously enough to get an earnest discussion going. If you don't care, ain't nothing that I can say is going to change anything.

a reply to: Kryscent

The history of the treatment of Native Americans in the US aren't what most folks would call pleasant reading. Forced relocation to harsh locals, native american children being forcibly removed from their parents to be "taught" how to be white. Many other wrong-doings were committed over the years.

Identical, in many respects, to the treatment given out over the centuries by any colonial, or invading, power. Not right, by any measure used today, but hardly historically unique, unfortunately.