vatican bans " gluten free communion wafers " - just why ?

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Yeah because it really turns into a persons body
I really hope you are not a representation of all Canadians

Best google Transubstantiation, because that is what the Church teaches. And sorry...all of us Canadians are just that clever!

So I can only assume you believe that because someone else does
Oh dear, Canada

You mean that you don't get that I am referring to the central thesis of the ritual and not it's actual veracity? Oh dear.

It's not the body of christ without his glutes.

originally posted by: Syphon
It's not the body of christ without his glutes.

Well, the real problem is that the symbolism of the "bread" is used to connect present day Christians to the Last Supper 2,000 years ago where Christ broke "bread" with his disciples.

Now if you remove any ingredient completely from modern bread, then that breaks the link that was established over 2000 years where Christians eat the same type of bread that Christ and his disciples ate.

In that case, you may as well eat anything, perhaps a bowl of cereal or oatmeal would do, or maybe even meat.

So, the Church is just trying to keep the ancient link of the symbolism intact.

The meaning of the word "bread" is changing, but how much can it change before it's not the same thing at all?

a reply to: pthena

As a physical reality, the gluten contains the tie that binds.

A nearly empirical truth! HAHA

a reply to: windword
The words religion and bind are so closely related that I decided to leave out any additional commentary.

I posted a thing over here
www.abovetopsecret.com...
It gets rather down to Earth too. No stars so far. sigh!

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Do you just search this stuff out to whine and bitch about it at every chance you get
It's mind numbingly arrogant and self righteous, you are an atheist fundamentalist, sooky la la -ing about so much that is totally irrelevant to you

Why, what's wrong with you

Says the guy that constantly whines in every single evolution thread or atheist thread with the same ol' tireless rhetoric and never brings anything new to the table. Yes, some of us enjoy pointing out things that don't make sense in religions.

Anyways for communion, it seems to be related to the way they can manipulate the bread, rather than maintaining the exact same ingredients from 2000 years ago. I really don't think god cares if somebody eats a slightly different piece of bread to represent the body of Jesus if they are allergic to gluten, but I guess the church doesn't care about them. They are all damned because of the way god made them. How ironic.

instead of acting all smug, arrogant and fundamental.

Do you even know what fundamental means? It sure doesn't seem like it. A fundamentalists is one who takes a holy book or scripture as absolute LITERAL truth. There is no possible way that can apply to an atheist, sorry.

double post.

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Do you just search this stuff out to whine and bitch about it at every chance you get
It's mind numbingly arrogant and self righteous, you are an atheist fundamentalist, sooky la la -ing about so much that is totally irrelevant to you

Why, what's wrong with you

Says the guy that constantly whines in every single evolution thread or atheist thread with the same ol' tireless rhetoric and never brings anything new to the table. Yes, some of us enjoy pointing out things that don't make sense in religions.

Anyways for communion, it seems to be related to the way they can manipulate the bread, rather than maintaining the exact same ingredients from 2000 years ago. I really don't think god cares if somebody eats a slightly different piece of bread to represent the body of Jesus if they are allergic to gluten, but I guess the church doesn't care about them. They are all damned because of the way god made them. How ironic.

instead of acting all smug, arrogant and fundamental.

Do you even know what fundamental means? It sure doesn't seem like it. A fundamentalists is one who takes a holy book or scripture as absolute LITERAL truth. There is no possible way that can apply to an atheist, sorry.

Another fundamentalist hero, fighting the good fight
Barcs, protector of the faith, the down trodden and weak

Yay Barcs

THE Vatican has outlawed the use of gluten-free bread during the Holy Communion ritual.

The new guidelines were made that includes banning gluten-free versions of the sacred bread because the bread can now be bought over the internet.
...

Although completely gluten-free bread was banned, genetically modified low-gluten alternatives are acceptable as long as there is enough protein in the wheat to make it without additives.

news.com.au - Vati can: Gluten-free bread bad, genetically modified bread good.

The internet has caused a quality issue? OK. But they state "Communion" usage not the end of service sharing.

The second half is very disturbing, "GM" low-gluten... "Sure! Why not! Have at it!" Seems to be a double standard there somewhere. If one part is "sanctity" and ensuring purity why would GM usage be allowed?

They make the rules for their Church so it doesn't surprise me much.

a reply to: Dr X

They believe in a giant invisible sky fairy, biology is well beneath them.

This statement says a lot more about you than it does about any catholic I've ever met.

a reply to: snowspirit

I'm not religious either, but what if someone is, and they're highly allergic to gluten?

What are the symptoms of being highly allergic to gluten? I suspect most people do not understand what a gluten 'allergy' is. I believe most people confuse it with non-celiac wheat sensitivity or conflate its potential digestive issues with other symptoms.

a reply to: AMPTAH

Now if you remove any ingredient completely from modern bread, then that breaks the link that was established over 2000 years where Christians eat the same type of bread that Christ and his disciples ate.

In that case, you may as well eat anything, perhaps a bowl of cereal or oatmeal would do, or maybe even meat.

So, the Church is just trying to keep the ancient link of the symbolism intact.

I was puzzled by why it was an issue. Your explanation makes a lot of sense.

Thanks AMPTAH

originally posted by: AntiDoppleganger
a reply to: snowspirit

I'm not religious either, but what if someone is, and they're highly allergic to gluten?

What are the symptoms of being highly allergic to gluten? I suspect most people do not understand what a gluten 'allergy' is. I believe most people confuse it with non-celiac wheat sensitivity or conflate its potential digestive issues with other symptoms.

I knew there was a name for it, I had forgotten it. Then I googled.

Celiac disease is caused by a reaction to gliadin - a gluten protein found in wheat, barley, rye, and sometimes oats. The inflammation and destruction of the inner lining of the small intestine in celiac disease is caused by an autoimmune reaction to gluten in the diet.Apr 7, 2016

If someone has Celiac disease, then I guess they don't get a wafer.....

Im under the baseless assumption that gluten-intolerance is codeword for MonseniorSantos GMO Roundup poisoned wheat product.

Maybe that's why vast portions of the population are suffering very similar dysfunctions. The "gluten" is soaking into their brains. A vatican-monsanto conspiracy. You know they got their hands in everything.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

So the bread must be unadulterated - (exclusiveness) ... but lets include the adulterers

Link from the same page

This is funny

www.theguardian.com...

Müller is one of several cardinals in the Vatican who have publicly sparred with the pope. In 2015, he was among 13 cardinals who signed a letter to the pope complaining that a meeting of bishops discussing family issues was stacked in favour of liberals. The letter was leaked, embarrassing the signatories. “Clearly, the pope and Cardinal Müller have not been on the same page for five years,” the priest said. Müller has criticised parts of a 2016 papal treatise called “Amoris Laetitia” (The Joy of Love), a cornerstone document of Francis’s attempt to make the 1.2 billion-member church more inclusive. In it, Francis called for a church that is less strict and more compassionate towards “imperfect” members, such as those who divorced and remarried, saying “no one can be condemned forever”. Conservatives have concentrated their criticism on the document’s opening to Catholics who divorce and remarry in civil ceremonies without getting church annulments.

a reply to: chr0naut

Care to point out where GMO bread was sanctioned in the New Testament?

www.theguardian.com...

The unleavened bread used to celebrate the holy communion during Catholic masses can be made with genetically modified organisms,the Vatican said Saturday, but they cannot be entirely gluten-free. Low-gluten bread is allowed but there must be enough protein in the wheat to make it without additives

I'm not so sure the wheat of old has the same amount of gluten as modern, I will look it up but I believe the modern strains have a much higher %..many people have digestive issues with gluten.

Gluten is actually not a single protein, it is a family of different proteins and only some of them are recognized by the immune system of celiac patients. One of the gluten proteins that seems to be problematic is called Glia-α9. One study found that the amount of this protein is significantly higher in modern wheat (13).

authoritynutrition.com...

a reply to: pthena

I thought that Jesus sharing at the last supper had nothing to do with the gluten and was more symbolic - I had it rammed into me years ago that cordial was acceptable in communion. I notice that "wafers" look nothing like bread.

You could be right about the "tie that binds". Maybe the Vatican invests in Monsanto. Read the link approving of GMOs

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: chr0naut

Care to point out where GMO bread was sanctioned in the New Testament?

www.theguardian.com...

The unleavened bread used to celebrate the holy communion during Catholic masses can be made with genetically modified organisms,the Vatican said Saturday, but they cannot be entirely gluten-free. Low-gluten bread is allowed but there must be enough protein in the wheat to make it without additives

I'm not the Roman Catholic church or a representative of it.

I believe that they (like all Christians) have been given dispensation to determine the standards by which they are governed as long as it does not directly contravene previously established law.

When God directed how lands were to be allocated to tribes and families through inheritance there was an almost immediate question of what happened when there was no male heir, only females. God agreed this was a fair question and told Moses how inheritance would work in this case. The husbands of the daughters of a family with no male heirs would be adopted as sons of the daughter's father (in a legal sense) and would therefore become the male heir. Allowing the daughters to retain their familial property.

Daughters of Zelophehad From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Right from the beginning of the law, God established a right to challenge and add to the law by an analysis of the intention behind established law.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: pthena

I thought that Jesus sharing at the last supper had nothing to do with the gluten and was more symbolic - I had it rammed into me years ago that cordial was acceptable in communion. I notice that "wafers" look nothing like bread.

You could be right about the "tie that binds". Maybe the Vatican invests in Monsanto. Read the link approving of GMOs

Symbolism is religion
Jesus was starting a plan to bring people in to relationships, sitting, talking, discussing, eating, enjoying each other's company
The Catholics turned communion into a thimble of juice and a cracker biscuit, a ritual
And the Protestants still follow their leed