American handling of won wars has failed every time

Gee OP. I thought that failure on these sort of things was part of the American way.

What's the matter, do they not teach history in school anymore?

We were attacked by Japan. We retaliated. We restored them and they grew into a great economic success even to the point where in the 1980's, Japan was buying up lots of America and taking over many industries.

Germany - yes, we were one among allies that took them down. But, I would say that without the USA, WW2 would have gone on a lot longer and lot more people would have died.

We didn't win the Korean war but we did at least manage to leave with South Korea intact. I'm sure if you ask your average South Korean citizen, they would prefer that part of the peninsula than the north. Had we not fought that one, you wouldn't have your Samsung fridge, washer, TV and phone.

And don't forget we fought against England to win our independence. To this day, we are more like Brits than Brits like Americans.

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

That's really good points..

No one really thinks about those undeniable successes..

Well as successful as any invasion and reconstruction ever has been.

a reply to: DerBeobachter

You really hate America don't you? It's easy you know.....just don't come here.

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

To be fair though the squeaky wheel gets the grease and atrocities make a way better story than "it all went better than expected!"

a reply to: Xeven

Because theres a big difference between taking ground and subjugating people. Winning hearts and minds is 'political' dogma for the folks back home.

Total assimilation is not the goal, resource extraction and control of territory is. Total assimilation is impossible, those that welcome the invaders or assist their efforts are collaborators.

Its easy see if you compare it with your reaction to invading armies killing your family and friends and destroying your homeland. How would you feel about that?

Are you a capitulator, or a resistor?

a reply to: intrptr

I think he is saying total assimilation should be the goal of playing the conquest game.

originally posted by: conspiracytheoristIAM

originally posted by: Xeven
American handling of won wars has failed every time. Every time we try to hand the won territories back over to indigenous population we end up their enemy again causing additional wars and millions more dead.

Noting short of total assimilation has worked through history. Time to stop going to war if not willing to force our will on the populace and assimilating them as a whole into our nation.

May seem harsh but no doing so is causing more death than doing so would.

I hope you're kidding...what about S.Korea, Japan and Germany ??

Those where not US only war. The UK and France had huge influence in all of them.

Really? How about WW II?

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: intrptr

I think he is saying total assimilation should be the goal of playing the conquest game.

Like I said, thats a pipe dream...

originally posted by: rickymouse
Gee OP. I thought that failure on these sort of things was part of the American way.

Oh no, no. Just look at the 'successes' in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria.

We "Democratized'" them.

originally posted by: schuyler
Really? How about WW II?

US was not the only country setting the terms after that war.

Responsibility for reconstruction was divided equally between the USA, UK, USSR and for some odd reason France.

It sure is hard being Great Satan.

How I hope the World sees us.

originally posted by: conspiracytheoristIAM

originally posted by: Xeven
American handling of won wars has failed every time. Every time we try to hand the won territories back over to indigenous population we end up their enemy again causing additional wars and millions more dead.

Noting short of total assimilation has worked through history. Time to stop going to war if not willing to force our will on the populace and assimilating them as a whole into our nation.

May seem harsh but no doing so is causing more death than doing so would.

I hope you're kidding...what about S.Korea, Japan and Germany ??

Was thinking the same thing...

Times change though now everything is reported,broadcast and dissected immediately by the media and public. Media was more responsible and ethical in the 40's and 50's. Now they are looking with anticipation for a screw up, and so is the public for that matter. War is hell, but now occupation after victory is a nightmare in hell at least in the middle east, you have pissed off citizens and every terrorist organization including state sponsored sends its recruits for combat experience in a never ending cycle.

Japan,Germany and South Korea could assimilate western ways, just the thought is an abomination in the middle east. Don't think thats going to change anytime soon, like the contractor in Iraq said on his video about Iraqi immigration to USA. and I paraphrase I asked my Iraqi friends here what would happen if I went out un escorted, just in to town to shop for instance. Their reply was you would be kidnapped and either held for ransom or tortured and killed. I said you mean by rebels or ISIS and they said no just regular townspeople. This a guy helping rebuild their infrastructure not even military.

Most would rather live in a dictatorship under Islamic law and restrictions, than a free western society. Its too much of a culture shock. Which means fighting never ends and all you can do is abandon it, or set up a damn good Islamic alternative that has the organization and power to handle any flare ups and revolt. After losing 10s of thousands of soldiers on your side and who knows how many civilian casualties, those are two lousy options.

a reply to: crazyewok

What war is fought without allies? please name some

if you wanna take complete credit for the western front and the Pacific please try your best to logically answer that.

a defeated French and a poorly armed, barely holding on Russian army loses without a two front war.

and without the US navy Japan would still be in control of everything in the pacific. How about North Africa and Italy? The UK soldiers were valiant and brave during the entire war but you lose without the US.

as for the OP Japan's reconstruction after the war is a great achievement. also, South Korea being the economic powerhouse they are today and looking at N Korea we can see that the cease fire of the Korean War was also at least a positive result.

I'm anti war but my grandfather being a vet of WWII and losing friends in Iraq this entire thread is completely disrespectful.

Fight your own wars since especially western Europe benefits from our military doing the majority of the work.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: rickymouse
Gee OP. I thought that failure on these sort of things was part of the American way.

Oh no, no. Just look at the 'successes' in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria.

We "Democratized'" them.

Did you mean "Demoncrazitized" them?

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: crazyewok

What war is fought without allies? please name some

if you wanna take complete credit for the western front and the Pacific please try your best to logically answer that.

a defeated French and a poorly armed, barely holding on Russian army loses without a two front war.

and without the US navy Japan would still be in control of everything in the pacific. How about North Africa and Italy? The UK soldiers were valiant and brave during the entire war but you lose without the US.

as for the OP Japan's reconstruction after the war is a great achievement. also, South Korea being the economic powerhouse they are today and looking at N Korea we can see that the cease fire of the Korean War was also at least a positive result.

I'm anti war but my grandfather being a vet of WWII and losing friends in Iraq this entire thread is completely disrespectful.

Fight your own wars since especially western Europe benefits from our military doing the majority of the work.

What you blabbering on about. My point was the US was not the only country in those wars and that after the war responsibility for reconstruction was split and not held by one country.



As for UK losing WW2 without the USA? UK sent the Germans running from the UK shores a year before the US entered the war in the battle of Britain when the German failed to gain air superiority. And even if they did the German would never have got through the Royal Navy that was the biggest navy in the world at the time! And Africa? Monty already had the Germans in retreat when the US arrived and when the US troops did arrive they where pretty much useless due to lack of any experience and so where not much help until the army reforms and Eisenhower gaining command.

originally posted by: JDmOKI


Fight your own wars since especially western Europe benefits from our military doing the majority of the work.

Majority of the work?

Pick up a history book. UK put in the same amount of men and equipment in the European front in WW2 and WW1? France and UK did the bulk of the fighting and it was the UK naval blockade that caused Germany economic collapse that lead to its capitulation!

a reply to: intrptr

It's not at all far fetched and has happened a bajillion times throughout history..

In fact that is the the historical norm..

This whole "conquer a country then pay to rebuild it and give it back" is the unproven experiment..

a reply to: DerBeobachter

I always argue the only war we have ever won was the Revolutionary war, and the "peasants" won that one, not the government.

a reply to: Xeven
Controlling the entire population is not necessary. The end goal is control of the markets, and keeping the industry heads of that nation under your thumb. That is how we maintain market dominance. Unfortunately from time to time # like ISIS pops up. However, they can be co-opted, and have been by all parties as an instrument to taking markets in places that would have been difficult otherwise.

As it is though, Russia just sold 73 T-90 MBT's to the Iraqi's. That is 73 tanks not sold by America, and thats the opposite of what is supposed to be happening. Iraq is buying lots of gear from Russia instead of America now. Me no like that.