D Day, most overrated day in history?

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Raggedyman

If they didn't invade then the Nazis would still have 55 and 11 tied up waiting If the allies hadn't invaded, Germany would have probably still lost

This is what I was referring to.

Also while admittedly the Russians were willing to depopulate their country to hold off the germans, lets not read to much into that. The Russian winter deserves every bit as much credit as anything the russian military did.

I think the Nazis could have survived a Russian winter if they were not under as much pressure from the Ruskis as they were
The Russians used their conditions admirably

a reply to: Raggedyman

What does your post do to push the need for the Normandy invasion DDay or no DDay, German troops would have still been stationed in Fran

it's not hard to hard to understand, if the germans hadn't been expecting a invasion they would not have stationed nearly as many troops or used the resources on the Atlantic Wall and would have focused on the eastern front. where if not for the aid of the allies the USSR would have been soundly defeated after the lessons the germans learned from Barbarossa.

Normandy was the final stick in the gut.
It was sloppy and a lot of good men died.
It would have not been possible without help from the allies.
Poland took a good licking, but they did not fold.
Russia shot a big middle finger at the invaders.
Beware the White Death.
Google Simo Hayha.
Finnish dude knocked them out left and right.
Over 500 confirmed kills.

WW2 illustrated what will be done if a nation steps outside of the globalist's means of control. There was nothing that the 'heroic' allies were not prepared to do in order to stop their 'devil' enemy.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
The Russians used their conditions admirably

Yet the Russians were completely outplayed when they attempted to invade Finland.

The Russians exploited the German shortfalls in preparation and logistics. More Russian soldiers froze to death than Germans, it's just that there were more Russians to go around. You just need to look at the casualty count to see that. Had the German not been diverted by the D Day, the aerial bombing campaign, Italy (which tied up a million German soldiers) et al, the Russians would not have been able to achieve the gains they did.

Oh, and the allies were not just the UK and the US. The entire British Commonwealth was mobilise and many Africans, Indians, Aussies and New Zealanders fought the Axis of Japan, Italy and Germany.

Just the US meddling in Russias counter attack.

a reply to: Robert Reynolds

Sounds like you are routing for the nazis.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Raggedyman

What does your post do to push the need for the Normandy invasion DDay or no DDay, German troops would have still been stationed in Fran

it's not hard to hard to understand, if the germans hadn't been expecting a invasion they would not have stationed nearly as many troops or used the resources on the Atlantic Wall and would have focused on the eastern front. where if not for the aid of the allies the USSR would have been soundly defeated after the lessons the germans learned from Barbarossa.

Yes I get that but
What does that have to do with DDay, the importance of the invasion in mid 44
I understand the Atlantic battle, the lend lease, the

DDay or no DDay, the Nazis would have left their defenses where they were, they didn't have a choice
The battle may not have mattered if it didn't happen, the nazis would have still stationed their divisions and armor where they were positioned, still built the defenses, still prepared, but if it didn't happen...

I am not talking the fear of the invasion, the battle itself is the topic

a reply to: Raggedyman

Thats the problem with taking a nugget of time and space from an entire world war and trying to say it did not matter.

You have ZERO proof to back up your claim and use opinion to try and shoot down what others are saying.

the Russians do deserve credit, as does every nation and every partisan that fought the Nazis, without all of them Russia gets crushed.

a reply to: Raggedyman

the invasion was critical to the USSR, it meant that more recourses were spent on the Atlantic Wall, then it opened a entire front that was otherwise would have been relatively quite. if they felt the threat less than inevitable they would have not built up the defensives and just used a occupation force in france. they started building the wall in 42, and it was two years later that a invasion came.. they held on for two years before the invasion, after it, less than a year after the invasion the war was over. if they had not had to worry with a invasion and the help of the allies the USSR would have folded.


the invasion caused germany to have to fight major battles on two fronts and divide resources that otherwise would have been used in the eastern theater. the invasion lead to more battles not just on the beach but all across france and germany.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Raggedyman

the invasion was critical to the USSR, it meant that more recourses were spent on the Atlantic Wall, then it opened a entire front that was otherwise would have been relatively quite. if they felt the threat less than inevitable they would have not built up the defensives and just used a occupation force in france. they started building the wall in 42, and it was two years later that a invasion came.. they held on for two years before the invasion, after it, less than a year after the invasion the war was over. if they had not had to worry with a invasion and the help of the allies the USSR would have folded.


the invasion caused germany to have to fight major battles on two fronts and divide resources that otherwise would have been used in the eastern theater. the invasion lead to more battles not just on the beach but all across france and germany.

If the invasion didn't happen they would still need to have defenses in France, obviously
Used or unused they needed the defenses in place
The Nazis even sent there eastern armies to France to rest
The resources were already divided between the east and west, before the invasion

Russia had already broken the Nazis divisions and were descending on Berlin
Before the Normandy invasion.

I am not talking about the possibility of the invasion, the planing, the infrastructure, I am talking the battle itself
It came after The Nazis were defeated in the east

Many people say the Nazis were already beaten before invasion day, if not why not?

a reply to: Raggedyman


Well it is shocking how many Germans were lost on the east. Division after division that were told to dig in and take the massive Russian artillery onslaught and tank battles, again and again. Around 100 divisions. Nothing like this was seen in the west.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Raggedyman
The Russians used their conditions admirably

Yet the Russians were completely outplayed when they attempted to invade Finland.

The Russians exploited the German shortfalls in preparation and logistics. More Russian soldiers froze to death than Germans, it's just that there were more Russians to go around. You just need to look at the casualty count to see that. Had the German not been diverted by the D Day, the aerial bombing campaign, Italy (which tied up a million German soldiers) et al, the Russians would not have been able to achieve the gains they did.

Oh, and the allies were not just the UK and the US. The entire British Commonwealth was mobilise and many Africans, Indians, Aussies and New Zealanders fought the Axis of Japan, Italy and Germany.

Irrespective who froze in winter, June 44 the allies went on a beach in France
Were the Nazis already beaten in June 44

For every one dead us serviceman, Russia lost 85 men by wars end, took Berlin, annexed half of Europe

I think June 6 was a very important day for the allies, not one of the pivotal days in history though

a reply to: Raggedyman

And if the Allies do not hit France, and do not appear ready to hit france and as you said the eastern German armies were beaten you shift everything and the kitchen sink to the threat. Germany was in trouble they were not beaten yet, so yes you are still wrong.

I will freely admit part of the reason I am bothering to argue is it pisses me off when folks dismiss the sacrifices of those men.

No whether you want to admit it or not, you are pushing propaganda from a different direction, Anyone that has studied history knows it was a combined effort that allowed the allies to win, coupled with some horrific decisions by the germans as Hitler went nuts.

a reply to: seagull

Real name is Operation Overlord. I was watching History channel the other day and found this out.
www.history.com...

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Raggedyman

And if the Allies do not hit France, and do not appear ready to hit france and as you said the eastern German armies were beaten you shift everything and the kitchen sink to the threat. Germany was in trouble they were not beaten yet, so yes you are still wrong.

I will freely admit part of the reason I am bothering to argue is it pisses me off when folks dismiss the sacrifices of those men.

No whether you want to admit it or not, you are pushing propaganda from a different direction, Anyone that has studied history knows it was a combined effort that allowed the allies to win, coupled with some horrific decisions by the germans as Hitler went nuts.

There there, it's all ok, nobody is dismissing nobody
Those men were what they were, heroes or not

Nobody said that the allies shouldn't appear ready either, that's in your head
It was very important they did appear ready and acted as if they should be planing something

Now relax, have a lay down, get a fidget spinner and enjoy yourself a bit

It's a game, assumption and questions, nobody dies here today

From what I understand, D Day was considered a lucky opportune time due to a immense fog was covering that portion of France, which is why they decided to rush the beaches.

I can see how this is hyped by America since it really wasn't to concerned with the Nazi as they were with the Japanese, even though it probably the only famous skirmish the u.s had agasint Germany. Also the fact of the slave camps wasn't really a known till much later in the war too.

Don't know all the little details about Russia other then they were holding their own front agasint Germany.

Hindsight is always 20/20,isn't it?I mean during the "tech boom" 90's there was this clamor about whether or not Pres. Truman should have dropped the bombs on Japan.This is the 2nd thread,imo,like that.I trust that Gen.Eisenhower did what he thought was best given all the knowledge he had at the time.My 2 cents.

The OP’s best point here is that the Germans were beat by that time may be true, BUT, you still have to beat them on the battlefield as quickly as possible, since they were developing, like the allies, some real fancy weapons.


Moreover, the Germans still had some fight in them, as the subsequent to D-day, famous Battle of the Bulge demonstrated, where, if it was not for low fuel availability, the Germans might have had a huge come back.

en.wikipedia.org...


However, because the volume of the allied and Wehrmacht forces were so huge and the outcome so decisive that such a battle could never be called overrated

a reply to: Raggedyman

It's all about K/D Ratio.