B.C. baby first to get health card without gender marker

a reply to: Abysha

What does this have to do with the right? I know a few normal lefties and they too agree with how ridiculous this whole gender bs is.

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: c2oden

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: violet

I see no problem with this. When I see somebody, I gender them with what they look like and how they are presenting themselves. If I'm not sure, I avoid those pronouns altogether. Pretty simple system and it's worked for me so far.

But what I have never had to do was ask somebody for their birth certificate. So why will the baby ever need a sex on their birth certificate? They'll likely grow up feeling like the sex that corresponds to their genitalia and know they are either a boy or a girl without having to consult with their birth documentation.

So... I think it's pretty silly that this will trigger quite a few conservatives. But why? What benefit does it serve in the first place?

It has nothing to do with conservatives or politics.
It's biology.
You are a boy.
Where does it stop?

So... none of that had anything to do with my response. You're just being an asshole.

No, I'm not being an asshole, I'm just asking where does it stop?
Does it stop at deciding what gender you are? Or can we decide what race we are?

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Haha, good point. But respect imposed by wishful thinking doesn't have the same flavor. And before respect, I'd say it is a matter of tact.

I'll probably be offended if you call me stupid, but that's my problem to deal with my emotions, and I just have to make sure I don't act as one, so you don't have the opportunity to say it.

If you want to act genderlessly, I'm fine with that. If you want to be called e, instead of he or she, good, I can play along. But does it have to involve the government? Does society has to change profoundly for that?

As I said in my first post, I'd like to see some science backing this idea of genderlessness being good for individuals and society as a whole. But that won't happen.

Things you need your birth certificate for,

Passport
Applying for government benefits
Enrollment in some schools
Military enlistment
Drivers license
Pension/insurance benefits

And many others.

originally posted by: c2oden

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: c2oden

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: violet

I see no problem with this. When I see somebody, I gender them with what they look like and how they are presenting themselves. If I'm not sure, I avoid those pronouns altogether. Pretty simple system and it's worked for me so far.

But what I have never had to do was ask somebody for their birth certificate. So why will the baby ever need a sex on their birth certificate? They'll likely grow up feeling like the sex that corresponds to their genitalia and know they are either a boy or a girl without having to consult with their birth documentation.

So... I think it's pretty silly that this will trigger quite a few conservatives. But why? What benefit does it serve in the first place?

It has nothing to do with conservatives or politics.
It's biology.
You are a boy.
Where does it stop?

So... none of that had anything to do with my response. You're just being an asshole.

No, I'm not being an asshole, I'm just asking where does it stop?
Does it stop at deciding what gender you are? Or can we decide what race we are?

Nobody decides what gender they are to begin with. You are the one saying that. What I'm saying is that I don't see any benefit to having gender on a birth certificate.

But people will choose to fight some stupid war, waged by equally stupid lefties. But the truth is in the middle. If a baby doesn't have sex on the bc, it makes no difference on the child. No kid feels like their sex because of their birth certificate.

a reply to: AkontaDarkpaw

You could be onto something...

Aleister Crowley and Aiwas.
Kalergi - Coudenhove.
New World Order.

Future society will be very different to what we see today and maybe not too good.
Bill Clinton, George Bush and Tony Blair were among some of the winners of the Charlemagne Award.

Its a conspiracy theorists 1984 - Brave New World and Matrix all rolled into one.
David Icke is not as crazy as people say.

a reply to: Abysha

I'm not a conservative and i think this is quite troubling. This sets a really dangerous precedence and goes much deeper than just allowing the child ultimate freedom.

Indoctrination is not some boogeyman and social engineering is very real, they are clearly trying to desensitize us and confuse the # out of the kids, excuse my french. For what? Probably because a confused generation is a lot easier to control. I'm home to the biggest LGBT community on earth so I understand that some people are absolutely born different, but the problem with me is I believe the intentions of those that push this narrative are a lot more sinister than they appear.

a reply to: Abysha

I'm not advocating for absolute offensiveness obligations. I'm all for respect and inclusiveness, but not at the point of a gun.

In Canada, they are thinking of sending people in prison if we refuse to recognize someone's gender identity as they define it. How more moronic can things go from there?

What the BC parents have done should have been discussed openly in the public space prior to any decisions. It might become the norm, even if only a minority wishes it. Democracy?

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: c2oden

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: c2oden

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: violet

I see no problem with this. When I see somebody, I gender them with what they look like and how they are presenting themselves. If I'm not sure, I avoid those pronouns altogether. Pretty simple system and it's worked for me so far.

But what I have never had to do was ask somebody for their birth certificate. So why will the baby ever need a sex on their birth certificate? They'll likely grow up feeling like the sex that corresponds to their genitalia and know they are either a boy or a girl without having to consult with their birth documentation.

So... I think it's pretty silly that this will trigger quite a few conservatives. But why? What benefit does it serve in the first place?

It has nothing to do with conservatives or politics.
It's biology.
You are a boy.
Where does it stop?

So... none of that had anything to do with my response. You're just being an asshole.

No, I'm not being an asshole, I'm just asking where does it stop?
Does it stop at deciding what gender you are? Or can we decide what race we are?

Nobody decides what gender they are to begin with. You are the one saying that. What I'm saying is that I don't see any benefit to having gender on a birth certificate.

But people will choose to fight some stupid war, waged by equally stupid lefties. But the truth is in the middle. If a baby doesn't have sex on the bc, it makes no difference on the child. No kid feels like their sex because of their birth certificate.

I didn't say you can decide what gender you are born as.
Other than that, I agree.

a reply to: Abysha

It does make a difference though.

What toilet does the child use? Can the child participate in both male and female activists/competitions? Birds and the bees talk when it's older.

The list is quite long with possible problems.

Now, before you start with the whole left/right thing. Don't. It's not about left or right. It's about boy or girl.

ETA: Don't take my reply as an insult or an attack as it's not meant that way. I'm just trying to point out the problems of a gender neutral/gender unassigned child.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Abysha

It does make a difference though.

What toilet does the child use? Can the child participate in both male and female activists/competitions? Birds and the bees talk when it's older.

The list is quite long with possible problems.

Now, before you start with the whole left/right thing. Don't. It's not about left or right. It's about boy or girl.

What are you taking about?!

When have you had to pull out a birth certificate for those reasons?

Imagine if we didn't think of putting sex on there in the first place since it's simply proof of your date and place of birth. Wouldn't you think it strange if somebody suggested it?

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

See my last post above.

How's the hangover by the way?

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: AkontaDarkpaw

What do you mean what it represents for society as a whole? This is just an isolated incident (there are few others as well) and have no effect on society. The baby will know the gender at an early age so you can be sure there is no confusion there.

Everything starts as an isolated incident. To say that this won't impact society is naive.

In law courts look for a precedent before making a judgement.

Civil rights movement started as an isolated incident now look what impact it had...

Women's rights, gun control, rape, etc... all of these impacted our society but started out as isolated incidents.

How about homosexuality? That's impacted society... biracial relationships... transgender... all have an impact...

These are just examples of "isolated" incidents that turned into movements that turned into social norms.

Who knows the future impact of this? A precedent has been set and now laws may follow... movements may follow... new norms will be created. It's how society evolves.

a reply to: Abysha

By law, the child would have no gender.

Are you suggesting that we just judge gender by what they look like? Doesn't that go against the whole gender identification?

a reply to: NowanKenubi

How does this impact the society as a whole? How does this affect you?
As I have stated earlier the baby will know it's gender at an early age, so this whole debate is moot. It's not like the parents are going to tell it that "it" is neither a boy nor a girl. As the OP states they let the baby "decide".

a reply to: AkontaDarkpaw

Gender dysphoria is EXTREMELY rare so you can relax.

originally posted by: AkontaDarkpaw

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: AkontaDarkpaw

What do you mean what it represents for society as a whole? This is just an isolated incident (there are few others as well) and have no effect on society. The baby will know the gender at an early age so you can be sure there is no confusion there.

Everything starts as an isolated incident. To say that this won't impact society is naive.

In law courts look for a precedent before making a judgement.

Civil rights movement started as an isolated incident now look what impact it had...

Women's rights, gun control, rape, etc... all of these impacted our society but started out as isolated incidents.

How about homosexuality? That's impacted society... biracial relationships... transgender... all have an impact...

These are just examples of "isolated" incidents that turned into movements that turned into social norms.

Who knows the future impact of this? A precedent has been set and now laws may follow... movements may follow... new norms will be created. It's how society evolves.

ETA: these aren't intended as examples of negative impacts. They're intended to illustrate my point.

Rape as referred to here represents the first cases that created the precedent of rape cases moving away from victim blaming.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: NowanKenubi

How does this impact the society as a whole? How does this affect you?
As I have stated earlier the baby will know it's gender at an early age, so this whole debate is moot. It's not like the parents are going to tell it that "it" is neither a boy nor a girl. As the OP states they let the baby "decide".

The parents are saying the child isn't a boy or a girl, yet. That's kind of the point.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Abysha

By law, the child would have no gender.

Are you suggesting that we just judge gender by what they look like? Doesn't that go against the whole gender identification?

How? There are basic observations of respecting another person's dignity. Judge by how they present themselves or just ask.

I don't know about you but if somebody say's "My name is Robert but please call me Bob", I'm not going to reply "Nope, I'm gonna keep calling you Robert". Because I'm a decent person not going out of my way to annoy people.

I'm thinking high energy physics has gone to far! We need to shut down all particle accelerators. I was ok with the Mandela effect changing past events, but letting a child identity it's gender is in 'The Twilight Zone' territory. The next thing you know will be children who identify as animals.