Oh How the Tables have Turned

Just another one of my philosophical political ramblings... this time I want to discuss something that occurred to me a few days ago as I was watching an old video of Jon Stewart debating with Tucker Carlson. As I don't live in the U.S. and have never really watched FOX news I didn't know who Tucker was until very recently when some of his news segments started to go viral on YouTube, especially the ones of him destroying liberals, which I find quite enjoyable. So back to the video with Jon, this interview he did with Tucker happened some time around the 2004 elections, so it was back at a time when Jon was the king of talk show political punditry. Even I enjoyed watching his show because he was great at mocking the absurdity of the system. Also think about how different ATS was back at that time, the conspiracies all revolved around Bush and 9/11 and weapons of mass destruction, we didn't go easy on him just because he was a right wing politician. The news organization that got accused of being fake news more than any other was Fox News, not liberal sources like CNN.

Fast forward to today and it's amazing to see how the tides have shifted in the opposite direction. Liberal sources such as CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, BBC, etc, are now seen as the fake news among the majority of ATS members. We now have many hugely popular right leaning political figures on many forms of media but especially on modern platforms such as YouTube, with slogans such as "conservatism is the new counterculture". Even mainstream media outlets such as Fox which have typically been known for their questionable reporting, now have people like Tucker dropping huge truth bombs and utterly destroying far-left nut jobs, to the point where his segments are being shared on platforms such as ATS and going viral on YouTube. We also see quite a lot of people now supporting a republican president on ATS, not simply because he is right leaning, but because they feel he isn't a puppet like most politicians, and that he will actually attempt to work for the people instead of against them. Of course we don't all feel that way but it seems to be a general trend I'm seeing.

Getting back to that interview with Jon... as I watched it I couldn't help but feel like Jon had lost the debate and he came off as being a bit of a dick. However I'm absolutely certain that if I had of watched that interview a decade ago I would have sided with Jon, believing he had blown those two Fox idiots out of the water with his sheer brilliance. Don't get me wrong, I still respect Jon and think he's a very intelligent guy, but I also think he's wrong on some very core levels. Just like I still think Colbert is a smart guy and can be funny, but I also find his recent tirade against Trump to be overboard and quite distasteful, and I lost some respect for Jon when he joined in on the action. I actually had to unsubscribe from Colbert because it got so bad, it was no longer a comedy talk show but a political mud pit and a circle jerk for butt hurt liberals. So when I watched that interview between Jon and Tucker I saw it from a perspective I wouldn't have only a few years ago.

I think the following comment under the video sums up my feelings pretty well:

Wow, this is odd. I remember watching this as a 12 year old, thinking Jon Stewart was so smart and funny, and the CNN people were such conservative fuddy duddies (funny how he paints them as conservatives and now CNN is well known for its strong liberal bias)... but now as an adult I find Jon Stewart insufferable in this. Also, I had completely forgotten about Crossfire and had not made the connection in my mind that Tucker Carlson was in it!

Seems many other people also felt the same way, here are some of the other top comments:

so basically jon Stewart wants to be taken seriously without being taken seriously

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This is Stewart's modus operandi. He smugly talks down to people he disagrees with (mostly republicans), but when he is challenged about his own opinions and behavior, he claims he is just a comedian doing a comedy show. You can't have it both ways, John. Or when he is asked a real question that he has no answer for, he just turns it into a lame joke.

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Proving again that Stewart is a lying smart ass. He cant admit his show which is all about politics, politicians and his slant on who is good (liberals) and who is evil (conservatives) influences millions of people using snide superiority and sarcasm. Then uses the favorite liberal tool of mockery to make fun of Carlson for his bow tie, and calls him a dick to boot.

What I found more interesting though was this comment:

There is literally another YouTube link of this same exact video titled "Jon Stewart on Crossfire." It has 11 million views compared to this one and literally all of the comments on that video say it is clear that Jon Stewart showed them up while nearly every comment on THIS video talks about how clear it is that Tucker Carlson showed him up. It is just so funny to see so many people watch the EXACT SAME video but have such different opinions lol.

I did a quick search and the commenter is correct, the other video was uploaded 11 years ago and has over 11 million views, and nearly all the comments seem to favor Jon, whereas the video I embedded at the top of this thread was uploaded this year but already 1 million views and nearly all the comments favor Tucker. I think this again goes towards demonstrating the point I'm trying to make and the general shifts in public opinion that seems to be happening. However that isn't quite a satisfactory or complete explanation, because many of the comments under that older video are actually quite new, so we're also seeing a phenomena where people get caught in their own political echo chamber of self-confirmation, and cannot see outside of it. And I'm not saying this is strictly a leftist thing, that new version of the video was suggested to me by YouTube because it could see the content and comments matched my political leanings, whereas the older version would probably be suggested to liberals.

Here are some of the top comments under the older video:

This is Jon Stewart systematically dismantling a television show with brilliance. Tucker Carlson hasn't worn a bow tie since Jon Stewart made him his bitch.

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That dick in the Dickie bow made a right # of himself. - why doesn't a comedy show ask hard hitting political questions - the shameful thing is that compared to this he does. The prick in the bow tie should be sacked immediately.

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This is actually pretty depressing to watch because it's basically why Jon decided to leave The Daily Show. All he wants is for America's news sources to be fair and honest. Here, he is desperately imploring (redundant for emphasis) CNN (the real news channel we should trust) to be a real sources of news that we can trust. Not just a platform for politician to say what they want in order to get what they want out of us, "the ends justifying the means".

So each group is at risk of being drawn into the echo chamber... but at least I'm trying to see beyond my political bubble, I seek alternative opinions, I still watch Colbert and old clips of Jon when I'm bored, it's not like I disagree with everything they say. But if you read the comments under a video from someone like Colbert it's absolutely mind numbing how much of an echo chamber these people have created. I cannot really blame them though, there aren't really many places left to go to give themselves that boost of confirmation bias they need, and Colbert is extremely good at his job. I don't use Facebook but I'm sure a very similar echo chamber situation is developing there. That's what I find truly insidious, liberals control most social media platforms so have the ability to manipulate it to push certain agendas. Despite all their efforts though, whether through MSM lies or demonetizing independent reporters, they are still failing. The tables have already turned.

Now for you viewing pleasure, here are some of Tuckers latest hits:

It's all a question of perspective isn't it.

I watched that and saw a bit where the hosts cut him off rudely by asking to see naked pictures and then going to an advert break while he's saying please, let's talk about something that matters.

So, you know, I think this is people seeing what they want to see here.

I think the programming is nearly complete.

This is how you get "conservatives" voting for the Patriot act or calling on collecting voting records.

Conservatives themselves aren't even the same people.

I don't even call myself one anymore, I don't want to be associated with their flawed philosophies.

No gun databases ever, but go ahead and let presidents start collecting personal voting records on whimsical ideas.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I just watched a segment of that show the other day. When he made that joke about the bowtie...I stopped.

That segment. There is no serious discission after that.

I've been saying for a long time that the left better watch out. The pendulum swings, and it will swing back and hard if they aren't careful. I think that's what you're seeing.

It isn't that things have changed, or even that many of us have necessarily changed. I haven't changed.

It's possible that a good portion of the country swung their opinion because they might sway in the breeze.

But things that were once edgy and cool like Jon Stewart wear out their welcome and become mainstream. Once they're mainstream, they stop being edgy and cool. That's when the other side starts to get attractive again. The pendulum swings. Kids rebel against their parents.

Jon Stewart libs are now in mom jeans ...

a reply to: luthier

Yes it must be one huge plot to make everyone a conservative so they vote for things like the Patriot Act, it couldn't be people naturally being repulsed by extreme progressive ideals. I am not religious and don't refer to myself as a conservative, although I tend to be conservative when it comes to issues such as illegal immigration, simply because I've seen what mass immigration leads to and it's clearly a bad thing. I am really a libertarian so I would never support crap like the Patriot Act and based on what I've read on ATS neither would most members here. This is about gaining freedom and prosperity, not reducing it, despite the left claiming Trump is trying to enact a fascist dictatorship.

a reply to: ketsuko

Very true, the pendulum is swinging back.

But I disagree it's simple rebellion against the mainstream... exposing corruption in elite political circles is never mainstream, whether it's from Jon or Tucker, or Ben Swann, etc.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

The programming is to entrench people in partisan bickering for the age old divide and conquer routine.

There is not conservative growth. This is the very normal swing from one extreme to the other. It often happens every 8 years when a two term president has pushed legislation for the incredible small number of people that voted for them. With no compromise to the other side which always makes up about 50 percent of the population.

I think you misinterpreted my comment. The purpose of making hypocrisy within ideas and ideals is to be able to deliver the obsurd to the public after they have been conditioned to accept it

Like you point out the echo chambers on both sides are extremely loud.

The difference is the hysterical 24 hour news cycle saying the sky is falling.

50 years ago there were race riots, segregation, before that lynchings mobs etc. In the 60's and 70'see overzealous sjw's did stupid things on campuses.

How about we figure out our common ground before it's too late.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: ketsuko

Very true, the pendulum is swinging back.

But I disagree it's simple rebellion against the mainstream... exposing corruption in elite political circles is never mainstream, whether it's from Jon or Tucker, or Ben Swann, etc.

Eventually, the Republicans will learn how to be really corrupt again. This is why I am independent.

The Republicans have watch-dogged so long and so hard by the press that they have had to either bury their crap so deep it would take the likes of Sherlock Holmes to dig up, or they have to be what they appear. As a result, they're pretty well incompetent. You have the "kept" ones who work for the other guys, the ones who are too good at burying the bodies, and the ones who really are honest. They don't usually work well together.

Once the Democrats/press are broken down, the rats will play again.

a reply to: ketsuko

And it will swing back again, obviously conservatives have the serious trump issue.

Your a good person from what I have read, you must know the things trump tweets are are damaging. I personally know many conservatives sickened by the fact that these official white house statements will be in the Smithsonian for instance. Our kids will learn about them in is history. And while there are plenty of equally bad things others have done, it doesn't make it any better. I was mad when Clinton defiled the white house and am mad Trump is as well.

What we need is a reasonable centrist who doesn't cause a pendulum swing every 4 or 8 years.

Why? Because someday possibly soon, the demo will be in control and they can undo all the same things trump is doing. They cam add back the regulations, they can overturn sanctuary city laws, etc..people don't understand the value of compromise anymore. It's so we don't live in perpetual extremes everytime the other side comes to power.

a reply to: ketsuko

Eventually?

a reply to: luthier

The programming is to entrench people in partisan bickering for the age old divide and conquer routine.

I agree to some extent but I also think some degree of debate and opposition is a healthy thing, you can not have your paradigms evolve if they are never challenged. Also notice how I use terms such as "extreme progressive ideals", I'm talking about SJW's, hardcore feminists, BLM people, these are the people I consider my opposition. Not because I'm against ideas of equality, I always show the utmost respect the women, and I treat all people exactly the same. I'm against them because they take things to the extreme, they promote toxic hatred against white males and other specific groups of people, completely disrespecting the ideals they claim to be standing for and inciting violence.

The difference is the hysterical 24 hour news cycle saying the sky is falling.

The only media I see losing their mind with hysterical weakly sourced theories are liberal MSM outlets, Tucker is just laughing at the absurdity of all... people on the right just want to get on with business and let Trump do his job, they've already won, they have no reason to incite a civil war, they just want the left to accept the reality of the situation and stop attacking him like little children who cannot bare to lose. It's just sad.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

lol, nobody can make John Stewart look dumb, nobody.

ESPECIALLY tucker.

I didn't want to say anything but you guys must really love starring each other, I've never seen so many stars appear so quickly. Need some confirmation of your opinion eh? The star count on those first two responses and the speed they appeared is very suspect unless this is the worst thread I ever wrote. Also, the first response came so quick there's no way he/she read the post or watched the video. I need some backup here folks, I am still on ATS or have I suddenly shifted dimensions? Lmao.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

That is an incredibly biased and mainstream sophomoric analysis.

The media is consolidated into basically 3 sources. 2 are liberal with Murdock owning plenty of conservative papers. Many that are very critical of trump and for good reason.

For instance I get the wsj and the National review. Both incredibly critical of trumps demeanor and his policy ideas. Particularly his budget and tax cut plan.

What is there to get done? Go get on the phones for more fundraising?

Literally nobody I know other than the usual college students act like liberal morons. Yet the republicans have keyed in and THEIR media sources present these radical professors and college kids like they are some huge movement. They existed when I went to school in the early 90's, when my mom did in the 79'same etc.

In fact it's so common people know the young are most often liberal and the cliche is campuses are full of moronic activists. It's been parodied many times.

What we have now is coverage of narratives designed by the news overlords.

My wife is a research professor we have lived near campuses for about 12 years. Plenty of conservative idiots that don't get covered as well because it's not part of the currentime narrative.

For instance about 20 kids were denied their admission at my wife's university for posting racial slurs and black face stereotypes . Not a peep in the news.

It's all about ratings, trends, and psyops. Same as it ever was.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Well I starred both you and ketsuko so maybe your being a snowflake.

a reply to: luthier

What is there to get done?

Lmao, really? Is this a question?

In fact it's so common people know the young are most often liberal and the cliche is campuses are full of moronic activists. It's been parodied many times.

I witnessed adults talk to a puppet on a MSM network as if it's opinion held some weight, and you're trying to tell me only young people can get sucked into this hysteria?

a reply to: luthier

I starred you.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Let me rephrase for you to understand since you took that out of context and avoided the next sentence.

Until lobby power is reduced no decent bills will be made. Congressmen and women literally spend the majority of their time personally raising money.

And it semi like the media narrative is working on you.

Perhaps you should read up on the psyops that get done with media outlets.

All this is done to divide people as your op here seems to be part of the trend as well.