Trump calls for repealing Obamacare without replacing it

originally posted by: AboveBoardI want healthcare for everyone to be affordable and manageable, of a quality that matches our technology and skill. I want this for your parents too.

We all want that, but I come from the standpoint from looking at this from a business standpoint, since it has already screwed up many businesses, both in the healthcare industry and how small and medium-sized businesses have had to adjust their hiring practices and costs for healthcare. There absolutely is the human component as well, but like the guy who is the janitor of the building in which I work--he had insurance before the PPACA, and now he is at the borderline income level where he can't get subsidies for it, but also can't afford it on his own, so he just goes without and has to incur a penalty tax because of that situation that the government forced up on him. It also doesn't help that he watched his sister die (as did I) because of lung cancer a few years back, and knowing that he has that possibility as well (he smokes heavily and has his whole life), he's just left to hope for the best.

And that is because of the PPACA.

The human element goes both way, and to be honest, if I was in your position, I'm sure that I might have a different outlook, but since I'm not, I can look at it much more objectively. I'm not saying that all of your points are valid, I'm just presenting the other side of those who are affected by the PPACA, and how if it went away, would more likely be in a better position--and these are the majority of Americans. Most Americans are not unfortunate enough to be in the position that you are.

I wish you and your son the best.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
Healthcare should be a national interest and governed at the federal level with as much input and guidance from states as humanly possible. If you did that, instead of lobbyists in lieu of elected state officials, we'd be far better off.

In America, our constitution does not enumerate the power of the federal government to control our healthcare and health insurance industry. It is my opinion that we would need a constitutional amendment giving that authority to the federal government, because as it stands now (again, in my opinion), IF (and I really, really mean "IF") there is a governmental entity that has that power, the 10th amendment apportions that power to the states.

I think that you're half correct, though--get rid of lobbyists AND get government out of the health insurance/care industry. The government should have limited regulatory power and that's it.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: AboveBoard

The solution is going to have to start with managing the cost of health care.
And strong advocation for proactive well care. Stop illness before it begins instead of treating it afterward.
Manage the cost of drugs to treat illness.
Then insurance companies don't bear so much of a burden.
They're working the problem from the wrong direction.

I think you are right, but that both ends if the problem need to be worked on simultaneously to where quality healthcare, lower costs and proactive preventative care combine - the ACA has these as it's goal but has fallen short.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: SlapMonkey

Oh yes, I agree it would be immensely difficult and costly. Our population is higher, which also implies it's all the more people paying into revenue bins. Even undocumented immigrants pay taxes.

SOME illegal immigrants pay taxes. Many do not...but that's for another thread.

It could be done, But, of course it's about money. And it's a matter of priorities.

That is what it boils down to. Money and priorities. The congress and administration is not there yet. We'll have to choose, and someday we will make the right choice. I'm sure of it. But for now, it's back to the old 'trickle down' which we all know was a massive failure. It's good in theory for the most part. Not so much for reality.

I disagree--it boils down to specified powers of the federal government, and control of healthcare and health insurance is not one of those. Our constitution and form of government exists explicitly to LIMIT the size and power of government.

originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: SlapMonkey

Germany has a very different demographics than the US. Germany is more than 95% white. America is only 60% white. America also has a very large illegal population Germany does not have. It is far easier to provide universal healthcare in Germany than in the US. Don't forget. Germany has always been very very efficient. The same can't be said of America.

Yup...you're expanding on my point for me. Thanks.

There are myriad other variables to consider as to why it wouldn't work here in the U.S., too, but I just don't feel like diving that much into it. If people can't see how unviable and corrupt a single-payer system in the U.S. would be, it's really kind of a pointless discussion, ya know?

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I hear you, but honestly everything from the business side is fixable with the ACA, but the real issue is that it is a political football and they are playing with our freaking lives no matter which side of the issue you are on.

The problem with cheap insurance is that it provides an illusion of safety until one actually gets very sick and then - WHAM - medical bankruptcy.

Most bankruptcies were due to extreme medical costs, including underinsured people, not just those without any coverage.

I don't want the bad old days to return. And I don't want the government making it impossible for me to care for my son.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

And their territory is a thumb size compared to the US. That's why we have 50 states. Since most states are Republican, there is the inefficiency. Catering to the globalists and ignoring their constituents.

a reply to: kurthall

Obamacare is idiotic. Having people on healthcare where the premiums are $1000 a month and have a deductible of 7500 are useless. It's worse than not having insurance. This people will lose healthcare crap is just that CRAP.

People don't have healthcare that are on obamacare now, they have ripped off insurance that does people NO GOOD whatsoever and hurts millions.

Jaden

a reply to: allsee4eye

There are no cuts to medicaid so im not sure where people keep getting that info from.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

The only government agencies who recevie, on a consistent basis, taxes from illegal immigrants are the municipal / county level governments and only through their sales taxes on everyday items. State government / Federal government who have income tax based systems get screwed.

A federal sales tax on all items might be one way to offset costs associated with illegal immigrants but even then it still comes up short.

Ending subsidies / entitlement programs that allow illegal immigrants access to them is a good start. As for medical treatment EMTALA covers anyone who is either pregnant or needing life saving procedures when presenting to the ER, regardless of nationality and ability to pay.

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: kurthall

Obamacare is idiotic. Having people on healthcare where the premiums are $1000 a month and have a deductible of 7500 are useless. It's worse than not having insurance. This people will lose healthcare crap is just that CRAP.

People don't have healthcare that are on obamacare now, they have ripped off insurance that does people NO GOOD whatsoever and hurts millions.

Jaden

WANT TO SEE OBAMACARE circa 2013?

Look Here: www.gettyimages.com... rect#staffers-for-sen-orrin-hatch-and-sen-mitch-mcconnell-move-a-huge-of-picture-id164141540

This "tower" is 2 feet taller now! Regulations to shore up other regulations, deal with unintended consequences, plug holes as consumers find a way around Obamacare... it's CRAZY!

All this just to insure 1.8% more people than before 2010!

I guess I'm not surprised that a certain group just doesn't see that this has nothing to do with healthcare. Trump and the GOP aren't concerned about getting a better or 'less mean' health insurance solution. What they want --- the only thing they're actually after --- is to erase Obama's 'legacy'. Piece by piece. They're just trying to find an acceptable wrapper to put that in. Doesn't matter if what Obama did was 'good' or not. They simply want to erase him from history as much as they possibly can.

originally posted by: Painterz
Well the American people did vote to get rid of it. So maybe they should just get rid of Medicade and Medicare. And see what happens.

And there you have it. Democracy in action. As it should be!!

a reply to: Xcathdra

Yeah, I consider a federal consumption tax a much better option than an income tax--at least then, getting paid "under the table" or flat-out failing to file income taxes would be a thing of the past. Plus, generally speaking, as one ages into retirement years and so on, they need to purchase less things (furniture, clothing, house, vehicles, etc.), so it would equate to a tax relief for senior citizens.

But like I said, the tax discussion is absolutely for another thread.

I also researched and wrote many comments focused on EMTALA and how it has contributed to the cost of health care in any hospital (which is something like 99% of them) that has emergency services. While I think it adds to the cost for those of us able to pay our bills, I do think that things like that are a necessity. I just wish that the descriptions of the mandated services under EMTALA weren't so vaguely written as to cause hospitals to err on the side of caution and generally help anyone in an ER for anything because they don't want to have federal regulators down their throats.

a reply to: carewemust

Well noted.

Also, my condolences that your state is in such a financial mess.

But the reason that your state is in such debt and staring at a junk credit rating translates exactly--EXACTLY--into why the PPACA has been so bad for America, and will only get worse as time goes on unless it is repealed or repealed/replaced. It is, in and of itself, a ticking financial time bomb. And the fact that all most people who support keeping it in place can do is deploy the appeal-to-emotion logical fallacy only helps to support that point.

Not a single person can point to the PPACA lowering premiums overall; not a single person can show how this has been better for health-insurance companies; not a single person can point to how much better the healthcare system is being run, or how much more efficient it has been at providing services to sick or injured individuals; not a single person can show that everyone was allowed to keep their doctors that they had, in many cases, for decades prior to the PPACA; and no one, not even experts, can show a massive net gain of insured individuals who, without the PPACA, would not have had insurance otherwise.

The lack of people's ability to view this objectively is a massive contributor to the problem. Personally, I'm not immune to the effect, both positive and negative, that implementation and a repeal of the PPACA has or will have, but there are always winners and losers when it comes to government decisions, and in the end, we need to do what is best overall for the nation at the federal level--if the people still want this, they can call for it at the state level and see where it goes from there.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: carewemust

Well noted.

Also, my condolences that your state is in such a financial mess.

But the reason that your state is in such debt and staring at a junk credit rating translates exactly--EXACTLY--into why the PPACA has been so bad for America, and will only get worse as time goes on unless it is repealed or repealed/replaced. It is, in and of itself, a ticking financial time bomb. And the fact that all most people who support keeping it in place can do is deploy the appeal-to-emotion logical fallacy only helps to support that point.

Not a single person can point to the PPACA lowering premiums overall; not a single person can show how this has been better for health-insurance companies; not a single person can point to how much better the healthcare system is being run, or how much more efficient it has been at providing services to sick or injured individuals; not a single person can show that everyone was allowed to keep their doctors that they had, in many cases, for decades prior to the PPACA; and no one, not even experts, can show a massive net gain of insured individuals who, without the PPACA, would not have had insurance otherwise.

The lack of people's ability to view this objectively is a massive contributor to the problem. Personally, I'm not immune to the effect, both positive and negative, that implementation and a repeal of the PPACA has or will have, but there are always winners and losers when it comes to government decisions, and in the end, we need to do what is best overall for the nation at the federal level--if the people still want this, they can call for it at the state level and see where it goes from there.

In this case everything you said about no one being able to show x translates into there being no winner with obamacare.

I have heard the term "single payer system" but i don't understand what it means. Is this similar to the UK or something else? Could someone please explain?

Thanks!

a reply to: allsee4eye

This is EXACTLY what they should have done since day 1. The GOP spent the past 6 years calling for repeal, and this replace crap is relatively new. Just repeal the piece of crap bill NOW.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: allsee4eye

There are no cuts to medicaid so im not sure where people keep getting that info from.

If you remember, under Obamacare, the Federal government started out funding Medicaid at 100% and then every year after that funding would drop?

I remember, and that's why I am laughing at the dishonesty of those blaming Trump for funding drying up!

Welfare is entitlement. Once people are on it, it's impossible to repeal it. That's why society is dumbing down with more and more people being put on welfare. 500 years from now.

originally posted by: allsee4eye
Welfare is entitlement. Once people are on it, it's impossible to repeal it.

Nothing is impossible so long as leaders are willing to be hated rather than pander. The beautiful thing there is, once the welfare goes away, most people who are crying about it can and will find the gumption to actually, GASP, take jobs and earn their keep. Once that action happens, they start paying something the rest of us know as taxes and will begin to experience pride over their own earnings. That pride will transition them from supporting a Kept Voter system of handouts using other people's money into becoming a group that resents the idea of now them and their earnings being seized and handed over to some other group of parasites in exchange for their votes for whatever politician is pandering to them.

In other words, kill welfare and watch many of those presently on it compete, thrive, and take ownership of their own futures as well as the future of our nation.

Repeal it NOW.