Gov. Matt Bevin publicly signs bill allowing Kentucky's public schools to teach the Bible

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Ah I misinterpreted your post then. My bad.

a reply to: underwerks

I think you misunderstand the idea of separation of church and state. But I agree with you on religion in school evolution should be removed from school since its more religion than science

So being so unsuccessful at teaching
the basics like reading is remedied
with more classes? Teach em to read
Instead.

a reply to: luke1212

evolution should be removed from school since its more religion than science

*chuckles* *ahem* Excuse me.

Discussing how the Bible was inspirational in forming our nation is not the same as teaching religion. I see no problem with going over the basics of all religions. Separation of Church and state should have never meant we should ignore teaching about religions of the world.

A lot of the laws and rights we have today stem from Christianity, the kids need to be aware of this. Thou shall not kill, though shall not steal. Where do these come from? They form the majority of the laws in society.

I think all popular religions should be offered to be taught on in school but I don't think it should be forced. It should be an elective should the student choose to explore the history of whichever religion they are interested in.

I'm not a fan of religion, but it does exist, widely so, and I think it's good for children to get a taste of the many beliefs out there and what they are based and backed on

-Alee

originally posted by: luke1212
a reply to: underwerks

I think you misunderstand the idea of separation of church and state. But I agree with you on religion in school evolution should be removed from school since its more religion than science

I think JFK said it best..

I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute - where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote - where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference - and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.

I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish - where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source - where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials - and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.

[Remarks to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, September 12 1960]
John F. Kennedy

originally posted by: luke1212
a reply to: underwerks

I think you misunderstand the idea of separation of church and state. But I agree with you on religion in school evolution should be removed from school since its more religion than science

Science is more of a religion because people put too much belief in what already has been discovered and discount things that are yet to be discovered, stating there is no evidence to show it is true as precedence for their claims.

If everything that has been proven is only the things we are to consider, then we can get rid of all scientists since we know it all.

originally posted by: rickymouse
A lot of the laws and rights we have today stem from Christianity, the kids need to be aware of this. Thou shall not kill, though shall not steal. Where do these come from? They form the majority of the laws in society.

Where you say? Hammurabi's code for one. We can teach them that the Bible came from various ancient manuscripts and that there is nothing original in the Bible. I don't think the Fundies would be too happy about that.

originally posted by: rickymouse

A lot of the laws and rights we have today stem from Christianity, the kids need to be aware of this. Thou shall not kill, though shall not steal. Where do these come from? They form the majority of the laws in society.

Those laws are universal regardless of religion. I will agree that there have been laws influenced by powerful Christian groups, like when same sex marriage was illegal. Thankfully, our Constitution saved the day there.

What kids need to be aware of is that the founding fathers were very influenced by the Enlightenment philosophy of the time - also known as the Age of Reason. Basic human rights were a big part of the Age of reason.

originally posted by: NerdGoddess
I think all popular religions should be offered to be taught on in school but I don't think it should be forced. It should be an elective should the student choose to explore the history of whichever religion they are interested in.

I'm not a fan of religion, but it does exist, widely so, and I think it's good for children to get a taste of the many beliefs out there and what they are based and backed on

-Alee

Agreed. A religious studies class that touches on all religions and the "theory" of religion itself would be a good thing.

This is Kentucky though, and the fundamentalism that looks so crazy from the outside is every day, normal life for a lot of people. I see a lot of lawsuits in the future..

a reply to: underwerks

You have to remember that KY has Ken Ham's Noah's Ark attraction.

NM

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: rickymouse
A lot of the laws and rights we have today stem from Christianity, the kids need to be aware of this. Thou shall not kill, though shall not steal. Where do these come from? They form the majority of the laws in society.

Where you say? Hammurabi's code for one. We can teach them that the Bible came from various ancient manuscripts and that there is nothing original in the Bible. I don't think the Fundies would be too happy about that.

You are right, I have researched some older religions and what is in the ten commandments came from them. But Christianity actually was the driving force that formed the laws here in the US. The Indians here had their own laws which were not that far from what was in the ten commandments, these fundamentals must have been brought here to America long before the Vikings were here.

a reply to: TrueBrit

One thing you may not be aware of. They could try to teach anything in Kentucky. It wouldnt matter, typical high school graduates, come out barely able to read or write. Most go on to build meth labs and then either blow themselves up, (a plus for humanity) or go on to be institutionalized in the criminal justice system ( a total loss for the taxpayers).

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: underwerks

You have to remember that KY has Ken Ham's Noah's Ark attraction.

How could I forget. Especially when Ken Ham got $18 million in tax breaks from the state to build it.

Link

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: TrueBrit

One thing you may not be aware of. They could try to teach anything in Kentucky. It wouldnt matter, typical high school graduates, come out barely able to read or write. Most go on to build meth labs and then either blow themselves up, (a plus for humanity) or go on to be institutionalized in the criminal justice system ( a total loss for the taxpayers).

As a Kentuckian, I concur. Except you're leaving out the person I went to high school with that died from handling snakes at his church. (That's not a joke.)

There are already schools for this, it's called church. So if people elect to take these classes they can just go to church.
Spend that money on classes that will teach these kids something that is usefull for real life in their futures .

a reply to: underwerks

So reading cultist books to children is cool with them but... they still bitch about black history month and reproductive education?

a reply to: TonyS

There are two things about this situation, which make the efficacy of the education system involved, absolutely irrelevant.

First:

The separation of church and state. This element is absolutely crucial, because it prevents state education, or for that matter any other state or federal institution, from enforcing religious standards on its population absent their permission, or propagandising at the population from a religious standpoint, so that any such permissions are easier to gain for a religious organisation, aspiring to attain a measure of control over the population.

This is vital because the people who wrote this into the Constitution, knew that if the society which resulted had a hope of developing a culture of worth, it would have to be based not on one religion, but the freedom of any person, to practice any religion, free of persecution and also unable to exert any on anyone else, on a religious basis.

Second:

It is worth pointing out also, that a person does not have to be effectively or correctly educated in religious matters, in order to be brainwashed into accepting the words of a religious leader. In fact, one might say it is, in fact, easier to control an idiot than an intellectual, precisely because an idiot lacks the perspective or experience necessary to fact check a statement, or assess the moral implications of an action or held belief. So in fact, it is of even greater concern to me that a very poor education system is considering taking up religious propaganda on the behalf of any religion whatsoever. Further to that, from a Christian perspective, while it is good for the word of Christ to be spoken, it is not good for that word to be spoken to people who do not understand it, by those who cannot comprehend it.

It is all too common, especially in states geographically close to Kentucky, for religion to be weaponised by those preaching it. It is appalling whenever, and wherever this happens, but I take it very personally indeed when people professing a love for Jesus Christ, weaponise his words rather than preaching them in not only peace, but good spirit. You cannot violate a constitutional provision as well thought out as the separation of church and state, in good faith or spirit. It is functionally impossible.