Vatican: Bible Confirms Jesus Was Not Crucified

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
The Apocalypse of St John predicted this 2000 years ago - that men would deny that Jesus was crucified for the sins of man.

I could have predicted that, since people have been doing it since day one.

Jesus never said '' I died for mans sins as a sin offering.".

That was Paul's reinterpretation of what he calls "HIS 'gospel' ", "Learned from no man."

Which means it's false and it does disagree with the teachings of Yeshua in so many ways Revelation is talking about Christians rejecting Yeshua's pbuh teaching called the Greatest Commandment if anything and not what this guy said to you about human sacrifice.

Yeshua pbuh never said he was to be treated as a goat sacrificed to Azazel on Yom Kippur the Day of Atonement ritual of Leviticus which is exactly what turning his non death and actual Ascension to Heaven as the answer to your sins is, and cowardly as you should recognize you are responsible for atoning for your own sins.

"Sensless man, do you want to be told, Faith without works is dead."

And refuted by James whose men all are "Zealous for the Law of Moses" and Torah observant.

Using Abraham as did Paul, to refute his doctrine with his own 'proof text' showing what a fraud Paul was.

"The curse of the Law."

Lying, he claims it was "Ordained by angels." The Torah refutes this clearly and Jubilees has the Torah preceding creation and was in Palestine at the time and found in fragments at Qumran.

"Faith, not works of Law, justify us."

"If through my FALSEHOODS God's glory abounds why am I being judged a sinner?"

I am not speculating the man literally bragged about lying and did it whenever he said "I lie not" "before God."

Which is more than 'Yes, yes" and, according to Jesus pbuh, "Of the evil one."


Sin is exactly what Baptism of water was ordained for making there zero need for a true disciple to rely on believing in a man's death as vicariously atoning for your sins.

But Christians don't need Jesus' pbuh teachings, they have Paul.

And thinking it is true is far from virtuous it's disturbing and illogical, Paul the only teacher of it and he never met Jesus pbuh.

originally posted by: Disturbinatti

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
The Apocalypse of St John predicted this 2000 years ago - that men would deny that Jesus was crucified for the sins of man.

I could have predicted that, since people have been doing it since day one.

Jesus never said '' I died for mans sins as a sin offering.".

That was Paul's reinterpretation of what he calls "HIS 'gospel' ", "Learned from no man."

Which means it's false and it does disagree with the teachings of Yeshua in so many ways Revelation is talking about Christians rejecting Yeshua's pbuh teaching called the Greatest Commandment if anything and not what this guy said to you about human sacrifice.

Yeshua pbuh never said he was to be treated as a goat sacrificed to Azazel on Yom Kippur the Day of Atonement ritual of Leviticus which is exactly what turning his non death and actual Ascension to Heaven as the answer to your sins is, and cowardly as you should recognize you are responsible for atoning for your own sins.

"Sensless man, do you want to be told, Faith without works is dead."

And refuted by James whose men all are "Zealous for the Law of Moses" and Torah observant.

Using Abraham as did Paul, to refute his doctrine with his own 'proof text' showing what a fraud Paul was.

"The curse of the Law."

Lying, he claims it was "Ordained by angels." The Torah refutes this clearly and Jubilees has the Torah preceding creation and was in Palestine at the time and found in fragments at Qumran.

"Faith, not works of Law, justify us."

"If through my FALSEHOODS God's glory abounds why am I being judged a sinner?"

I am not speculating the man literally bragged about lying and did it whenever he said "I lie not" "before God."

Which is more than 'Yes, yes" and, according to Jesus pbuh, "Of the evil one."


Sin is exactly what Baptism of water was ordained for making there zero need for a true disciple to rely on believing in a man's death as vicariously atoning for your sins.

But Christians don't need Jesus' pbuh teachings, they have Paul.

And thinking it is true is far from virtuous it's disturbing and illogical, Paul the only teacher of it and he never met Jesus pbuh.

I forget to mention why I even said this, because I wasn't thinking about the fact that I don't know anyone else who has actually read the Gospel of Barnabas but let me quote it:

1.0 Barnabas, Apostle of Jesus the Nazarene, called Christ, to all those that dwell upon the earth in desire of peace and consolation. ...

"...God has during these past days visited us by His Prophet Jesus Christ in great mercy of teaching and miracles, the reason why many, being decieved by satan, under pretence of piety(hesed), are preaching most impious doctrines, calling Jesus the son of God, repudiating circumcision ordained by God for eternity [covenant with Israel, through Abraham, Isaac] and permitting all unclean meat: among who Paul also has been decieved, about which I speak not without grief; for which cause I am writing..."

This is consistent with the Bible actually as it's all true, factually speaking Paul DOES say "An idol is nothing" and that as his followers are 'more spiritual' that which was decreed by the Holy Spirit through James in Jerusalem according to Luke writing Acts, "Do not eat meat sacrificed to idols" was one of 4 decrees, 3 dietary and the other 1 that non Israelites needn't get circumcised if it was a burden.

It was not enough that Paul got his way he calls the sign of Covenant the "Mutilation", wishes they'd "finish" the job, i.e. castrate themselves (not joking he does) and calls "Men of James" the "Circumcision faction", ''Judaizers", etc, etc, etc.

He calls those who don't eat idol meat ''weak brothers", suggesting eat but if they are around only then is it wrong, an innovation to say the least and if you are a believer you don't want to risk demonic possession because someone sacrificed a cow to Baalzebul or some other demon, Belial, Mastema or Satan or whatever.

If you think about it or just read Revelation you will read Jesus pbuh rebuke of this as "'The teaching of Balaam" the villain of Beor, who in tradition is related to Laban, who is a sorcerer, by blood, grandson of I think. By tradition I mean according to the Zohar and Rabbinical tradition.

But he is definitely a villain and a Prophet who goes bad making the comparison unique as it is very similar to what is said of Paul, if you believe he actually recieved revelations though it is refuted by the fact that as he claims this he is teaching what Jesus pbuh condemns to John, if Revelation was written while Paul was alive or not it's clear at no point was Jesus pbuh instructing Paul who taught such an evil lie in violation of his personal agreement in Jerusalem not because Jesus pbuh was in communication with Paul but the opposite and that Paul lied is provem by his words 50× over, once is enough and he confessed to "my FALSEHOODS" if they ''abound to God's glory why am I being judged a sinner."

Well, lies, falsehoods, just don't glorify God.

Is why. Because he lies is why he is judged a sinner.

Making his "Faith without works of Law(Torah is what is meant by Law and not captured exactly in translation)" dogma, as absurd as it remains, at least make us know why it is a priority for him.

He needs to escape the Law as a criminal and has no Faith in the Law of God.

I can see remnants of the ancient world in Barnabas indictment and it wasn't something Christian scholars speak of between Epiphanius and the release of the Ante Nicene fathers series when people could read about the following James had, the Poor or "Ebionites", Ebionim in Hebrew.

It wasn't common to use Nazarene then either, Christian would have been preferable, I think it was written using an ancient source, as one theory posits, by a Marrano forced to convert after the Europeans massacred the Jewish and Muslim inhabitants of Spain and forcefully converted many Jews, few Muslims as they were usually killed as were the Jews who if escaped were given sanctuary by the Ottoman Empire.

Which makes finding it in Turkey, a hub of Christianity in the beginning from the 7 Churches of Asia that are mostly in Turkey, important if true.

It depends on what crucified means. In the bible the Greek word Stauros is more appropriately rendered tree, pale or stake. NOT CROSS. The NIV renders 1 Peter 2:24 "He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree" If you set aside deeply rooted tradition, the evidence is there that Jesus was impaled, not on a cross, but on a stake.

See the photo of a sculpture at the British Museum dated to the 1st century, called "Execution of a Prisoner"

a reply to: TheChrome


It's his teachings that matter.

He didn't even die. He is in Heaven and went there in the body.

His ressurection wasn't witnessed but his Ascension was so it's a mystery and not in any way related to the forgiveness of sin.

Baptism was ordained for repentance by Jesus pbuh himself.

The crucifixion is just something people obsess about because it's easier than trying to earn your bread, a free ticket to Heaven just for saying you believe it is seductive b.s.

a reply to: onehuman

Barnabas who supposedly wrote this gospel was the henchman of Saulus, and they were both murderous heretics of the worst kind. Together they arrested and forced many Christians to be interrogated in the forums and arenas in Rome, Greece and Asia Minor, set before the Council in Jerusalem and even common mobs. Acts shows how Saulus lead stonings, forced Christians to be interrogated and admit to crimes against Rome and Jerusalem and eventually brought Peter and his followers to Rome where Peter was crucified (upside down, he hang for days) and other Christians were burnt like living candles along the roads in to Rome and put up in other bloody displays as traitors against Rome.

Sauli epistles also show his devious techniques of speaking like a serpent and strike fear in his subjects, using sarcasm and irony to lure in his prey, like how the devil would say that he would love to come to your house to meet some children of Christ. Saulus was an imposter that lured in the faithful and had them tossed to the lions. Why can't anyone see these two devils for what they were, Saulus and Barnabas were agents of Rome and the Sanhedrin and heretics, false prophets and murderers of the worst kind.

a reply to: Disturbinatti

Jesus never said '' I died for mans sins as a sin offering

well yeah he did, maybe not using those exact words but he did say it,

Matthew 26:27-28 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
27 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you; 28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

he is saying here he is the lamb whose blood is sprinkled over the alter and the rest poured out at the base.

and then a more direct statment in John

John 10 :11-18 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
11 “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. 12 He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13 He flees because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

a reply to: onehuman

There are Christian driven religions that never believed in the Trinity or the crucifixion and won't wear crosses. One is Jehovah's Witnesses. I was born and raised southern Baptist. At 16 I decided the Trinity was stupid. I do believe Jesus is a prophet.

For most of my life I could not understand why an all powerful God would require a blood sacrifice of his own son in order for the redemption of the sins of the world. God is all powerful, and He could have made it any way He wanted. Later in life I found the wisdom to pray for knowledge, for spiritual gain not worldly gain. It then slowly began to make sense to me (no, I did not hear any voices). But Jesus described Himself as the Way, the truth and the life. If you look at it keeping that in mind, then God sacrificed the way, the truth and the life for the redemption of sins. In other words the truth of God has been sacrificed and when we sin, we do it without knowledge ('please forgive them, for they know not what they do'). Unlike Lucifer and the rebellious angels, we do not sin in the face of God, therefore we can be forgiven. Lucifer and the angels were cast out, forever, because they knew who God is and sinned anyway. Mankind gets a tour of the asylum, but do not have to stay here or with the fallen ones. We know some of the lies and deceit, but most of us have no clue of the true evil in this world. Some day we will have the opportunity to be reunited with the truth of God.
I wrote this here because the story of Jesus makes little sense without it (it didn't to me). Jesus (the way, the truth and the life) is real. He is that part of God that allows us to be redeemed and keeps us from sinning in the face of God.

Unless someone comes forward with a DVD showing what exactly happened, including subtitles in English, this subject will never, ever be solved, and even then, if one did show up, everybody that hates THAT message will call it a hoax.

A completely unsolvable subject.

originally posted by: fredrodgers1960
Unless someone comes forward with a DVD showing what exactly happened, including subtitles in English, this subject will never, ever be solved, and even then, if one did show up, everybody that hates THAT message will call it a hoax.

A completely unsolvable subject.

That's why it's interesting...

2+2=4 isn't.

It's always more interesting when a mystery, life.

a reply to: Disturbinatti

It's always more interesting when a mystery, life.

It's only a mystery for those not chosen.
And no amount of learning languages,
study & research will ever disclose God's
truth.

Matt 13:10 And the disciples came, and
said unto him, Why speakest thou unto
them in parables?
Matt 13:11 He answered and said unto
them, Because it is given unto you to
know the mysteries of the kingdom of
heaven, but to them it is not given.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: onehuman

There are Christian driven religions that never believed in the Trinity or the crucifixion and won't wear crosses. One is Jehovah's Witnesses. I was born and raised southern Baptist. At 16 I decided the Trinity was stupid. I do believe Jesus is a prophet.

You would be wise. Sir Isaac Newton also concluded that the Trinity was a false doctrine. Although not one of what would be called modern day "Jehovah's Witnesses", Sir Isaac Newton can certainly be called a "Witness of Jehovah" due to his accurate conclusions about biblical matters. He was not able to understand prophecy because that was "for the end times", but he had a lot of other things right.

a reply to: onehuman

This would make the crucifixion a false flag event!!
its an interesting claim thats for sure, nothing would surprise me at the moment!

Cheers for the interesting read

originally posted by: TheChrome
You would be wise. Sir Isaac Newton also concluded that the Trinity was a false doctrine. Although not one of what would be called modern day "Jehovah's Witnesses", Sir Isaac Newton can certainly be called a "Witness of Jehovah" due to his accurate conclusions about biblical matters. He was not able to understand prophecy because that was "for the end times", but he had a lot of other things right.

He also used God's name in Latin in his pseudonym:

Iehova Sanctus Unus

He actually came pretty close when it comes to understanding some prophecies.

a reply to: fredrodgers1960

Don't worry, the plot is thickening....

a reply to: MrBlaq

Like how the parabe of the Good Samaritan is about the Samaritan Torah that has been as good as eradicated. I hope we'll find one soon. You'll be all amazed, I'm sure.

a reply to: MrBlaq

Chosen by who?

Life is a mystery, unless you know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING your thinking you are chosen or that you know who is or isn't chosen by God (whatever that means) is presumptuous.

I choose God, hope God chooses me.

It's all you can do besides be arrogant and presumptuous and believe you know things nobody does.

I am all set with thinking of myself as "Chosen" until God tells me otherwise.

And He didn't tell you, you never met God, you read (probably very little based on what your words revealed about your level of understanding) a book written by Greco-Romans about a Jewish Prophet pbuh.

Good luck with that!

originally posted by: MrBlaq
a reply to: Disturbinatti

It's always more interesting when a mystery, life.

It's only a mystery for those not chosen.
And no amount of learning languages,
study & research will ever disclose God's
truth.

Matt 13:10 And the disciples came, and
said unto him, Why speakest thou unto
them in parables?
Matt 13:11 He answered and said unto
them, Because it is given unto you to
know the mysteries of the kingdom of
heaven, but to them it is not given.

So you are a contemporary disciple who Jesus pbuh revealed secrets too and STILL LIVING!

WOW!

I guees we know why you sound mystified regarding access to logic, you weren't Chosen but you THINK you were!

That's mysterious and you are mystified, unable to tell me exactly how you know you are chosen.

And what I was saying is a mystery , IS a mystery to anyone who isn't lying. Rhetorical nonsense aside, you f.o.s.


HA!

a reply to: Disturbinatti

Jesus never said '' I died for mans sins as a sin offering.". That was Paul's reinterpretation of what he calls "HIS 'gospel' ", "Learned from no man." Which means it's false and it does disagree with the teachings of Yeshua in so many ways

1Corinthians 15:3-8 --- Written from Philippi by Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus and Timotheus -- Paul did not pen the letters to Corinthians. He said vs he said.
1Corinthians 15:3-8
(3) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
(4) And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
(5) And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
(6) After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
(7) After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
(8) And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

Mark says that Jesus said the following --- Another he said vs he said --
Jesus said:
Mark 10:45 For even [ I ] the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his [my ] life a ransom for many.

There are no writings by Jesus that exist. There are no scriptures in the NT that verify the Quran's claim that Jesus did not die.