Battleships

Ok first off I know battleship are no longer used and I know a fleet of smaller missle destroyers are more effective so this threads just a thinking exercise.

Thing is I love the old battleships. Always fascinated with the bemamouths.

Lets pretend Trump to to show the world the USA grandeur wants to built a new battle ship. He wants a great ship, a amazing ship, a ship that is best in the world, a ship the USA has never seen, the greatest ship, a ship that will make everyone fear.


So what shape would a modern Battleship have?

I would say 60,000-80,0000 tons.
Nuclear powered.
A rail gun, plus numerous of those new lasers. Large traditional cannons for shore bombardment (seeing as the old Iowa class was nearly kept in service for that).
Battery of anti air missles and latest in anti air defence.
Battery of cruise missles.
A Full hanger of numerous helicopters.
Ability to transport 2 battalions of marines.


I know such a thing would never be built......but its fun to imagine.

a reply to: crazyewok

There is this game on steam called From the Depths...You should check it out. It would be possible to build said ship as a scale model in that game and even give it some basic AI. That might satisfy your fantasy a little and give you a fun project to mess with

put some nuclear tipped missiles on it for the hell of it too and they need to be able to flip a switch and cruise a few feet under the surface like a submarine that would strike some fear a giant submarine ship with nukes and lasers and rail guns... I like this idea

Sounds like Metal Slug

a reply to: crazyewok

I've always been a big fan of warships myself and I think it's sort of an interesting thing to look at... could a battleship style warship ever come back as a truly useful weapon again given the kind of weapon systems it would be up against?

The Montana class, which would have followed the Iowa class has they not decided to go the carrier route would have been in that size range at about 70,000 tons.

The anti air defenses are certainly the most important thing because, lets face it, missiles or aircraft would be the thing most likely to destroy it rather than some kind of engagement against another ship. Even then, another ship would probably be firing missiles at it anyway so anti-missile defenses are what it needs more than anything.

I think an important question would be... would we bother with loading the thing with massive amounts of armor? Would such a thing do any good against modern day weapons? If hit with missiles, would something even along the lines of 16 inches of armor (As the Montana would have had on the belt) do any good? The type of armor we use could be different, but do we pack on even more of it or not bother at all except for putting the minimum needed to protect it from smaller weapons and say, 'well, it's not going to stop missiles and bombs if we put more anyway.'

So really, would it be like a huge armored monster of a ship, even larger than the Montana class would have been, or would it be more along the lines of just a floating super-weapons-platform that has a huge battery of weapons but doesn't bother with traditional armor protection? The proverbial glass-cannon. If it's just some weapon-platform that can be floated around, can we even consider it a battleship anymore or do we call it something else? Surface Weapon Carrier 01.

a reply to: rshackleford

I intresting.

I would think some armour but not to the extent of the older ships.
Just enough to offer some protection.

Its anti missle system and anti air lasers would be its main defence.

The idea is good but you need a supply network, hungry sailors don't really do much work, popping mega guns while trying to launch helicopters to get the actual troops down may be a problem. There is a point where it being nuclear powered which means if it all go's south you have just turned a lot of water into something nobody wants to swim in.

These days direct shore bombardment is much better using missiles as they can use GPS to turn up within a few feet of the requested location thus not giving poor natives on the shore worries of several days of large explosives dropping down around them.

I can't remember where I saw it, but a few years ago there was a semi submersible ship touted as the next big thing. Most of it was below the waterline and it came up to launch drones, cruise missiles and whatnot....Add in a big rail gun and you probably have a winner.

a reply to: crazyewok

While it might be fun to imagine some sort of battleship, WW2 pretty much showed that the BB went the way of the Dodo.

Aircraft carriers took center stage, and with good reason: A CV can send out a strike force that can sink the other guy's fleet, or bomb the crap out of land bases.

Pretty much each thing you listed is the job of other ships:

AAW - anti air warfare is covered by guided missile destroyers and cruisers.
They also carry anti ship cruise missiles and land missiles.

Troop transports carry your large amounts of troops. Actually kind of hard to stuff that many troops even on the Iowa class BBs.

Submarine boomers has the large nukes covered.

And the CVs provide the air cover, air strikes, and quite a few other services.

The main thing the BBs had was: the big guns.....but there are quite a few things we can use now a days that make those obsolete.
Armored hulls ......but then again, we simply penetrate the top deck which was weak with bombs, or use the torps we have now that go under the ship, explode, lifting the ship out of the water and breaking it's back.
Just being impressive looking - Yah, okay, you see a Yuuuge ship with big boom booms on it, and you think: damn.....don't want to tangle with that.

But....on that last one......knowing you have lots of different things that can take it out from a distance, it's not so impressive looking anymore.

Now.....having said that.......there might be a place for the BB again, only not in water. But in space. Remember Battlestar Galactica? That's basically what that was: A Battleship/Carrier in space.

So who knows? Maybe in the future, when we're done killing each other down here, we can have big honking space battleships.

originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: crazyewok

Now.....having said that.......there might be a place for the BB again, only not in water. But in space. Remember Battlestar Galactica? That's basically what that was: A Battleship/Carrier in space.

So who knows? Maybe in the future, when we're done killing each other down here, we can have big honking space battleships.

www.goodreads.com...

I prefer this version, but yeah. Space battleships!

a reply to: eriktheawful

So who knows? Maybe in the future, when we're done killing each other down here, we can have big honking space battleships.

You say that like that's a bad thing...




I loved this show!!

originally posted by: rshackleford

I think an important question would be... would we bother with loading the thing with massive amounts of armor? Would such a thing do any good against modern day weapons? If hit with missiles, would something even along the lines of 16 inches of armor (As the Montana would have had on the belt) do any good? The type of armor we use could be different, but do we pack on even more of it or not bother at all except for putting the minimum needed to protect it from smaller weapons and say, 'well, it's not going to stop missiles and bombs if we put more anyway.'

In the early 80's the Navy fired an Exocet missile into an Iowa class main gun turret. The missile did very little damage. A joke at the time was that the people manning the turret might not have even heard it if they were firing the guns at the time.

a reply to: JIMC5499

I remember reading that somewhere. Some pundit or other said that many countries wouldn't have enough exocets in inventory to sink an Iowa.

Not sure I believe that, but they were beasts--still are I suppose.

a reply to: crazyewok

Far more fun to imagine that at long last that the US military is going to reveal to the public something far grander than an antique of warfare, a gigantic battleship (when what you propose is actually more like a movable island).

I'll up you one on that issue. I propose that they finally reveal their marvelous machines the black triangles that many of us have witnessed for decades. Those early models must be about worn out anyway.

I envision a yuge ship that resembles a floating WALL of guns more than a ship. Powered by solar panels and clean coal! Painted red white and blue it's name will be U.S.S M.A.G.A.

Sorry OP not trying to derail. But with things at they are it was unavoidable.

Personally I'd like to see what Japan would be able to develop if their military restrictions were lifted.
A 21st century Yamato sounds terrifying and amazing at the same time.

a reply to: crazyewok

Could you make ship that was so wide it was literally unsinkable?? Then make a floating island arsenal??

That's what I would do..

Like 10 aircraft carriers duck taped together.. where you are literally dwarfing even 100 foot swells ..

I wonder if that is even doable??

a reply to: crazyewok

I see it being submersible and flight capable. It would only fly to orbit and then would de-orbit into the ocean.

It would have 4 railguns and 4 gatling 20 inch main guns of traditional chemically propelled munitions in retractable pill boxes on a ball swivel type mechanism. Those would be evenly placed along the port and starboard sides along the vessel.

2 main lasers, one dorsal and one ventral. These would be in retractable ball swivel pill boxes as well.

A tungsten core launch mechanism for orbital bombardment as well as a "brilliant stars" type of missile system. They would be aft and fore respectively. These would be built into the ship and retractable hatches would expose them for use.

It would launch and be home to 10 scramjets and a dozen attack and cargo helicopters. The scram jets would launch like torpedoes out of a forward launch tube.

The scram jets would be reusable, space worthy and would be recovered and reloaded like munitions through a cargo access door built into the deck under a moving command tower.

The command tower would retract forward or back along the upper deck, exposing a now open cargo bay. Once the aircraft are recovered and lowered with crane assists from the ocean surface or open space, the command tower returns to its cruising position and covers the open bay. Helicopters would land directly inside. They would have the difficult landing, not the jets. The jets would land onto the ocean or drift in space and wait for recovery.

The ship would not be stealth and would have layered armour that was modular and replaceable once used.

It would be about the size of a modern carrier.

Some smaller mounted guns and AEGIS systems. Countermeasures and modular weapon systems mounted along external tracks on the upper and lower decks.

My Grandfather was a Marine in the invasion of Okinawa, and I never tired of him describing the sheer visceral physical impact that he would feel when big-inch naval guns would fire. He could always describe it SO vividly.

As far as Battleships are concerned, that day may be long past, but big guns firing will always be one of those experiences, you know, kinda like being present for a Saturn V launch, that I will ALWAYS wish that I could have experienced in person.

Big lead projectiles thrown out by huge bags of exploding chemicals. Yup, wish I could've seen it.

a reply to: crazyewok

The Germans were doing various battleship studies with vessels approaching 140,000 tons and 20" main guns.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Ol' Adolph was convinced if big was good, super colossal was better.

I can't help but wonder if he was making up for a lack somewhere else??

But some of those studies were rather impressive. Useless, but impressive.