Why you can bleep off when you say I need to vaccinate my children...

So if vaccines are so safe why is there a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program?

Here's a list of the "safe" vaccines you may need to be compensated for:

Flu Vaccine (Trivalent influenza vaccine - TIV)
Chicken Pox Vaccine (Varicella vaccine - VZV)
Hepatitis A Vaccine (HAV)
Hepatitis B Vaccine (HBV)
Tetanus Vaccine (DTaP, DTP, DT, Td, Tdap, TT)
Pertussis Vaccine - Whooping Cough (DTaP, DTP, Tdap, P, DTP‑Hib)
Hemophilus influenzae type B (Hib)
Measles, Mumps, Rubella vaccine or any of its components (MMR, MR, M, R)
Human Papillomavirus (HPV) (Gardasil and Cervarix)
Meningococcal vaccines (MCV4, MPSV4)
Pneumococcal conjugate vaccines (PCV)
Rotavirus Vaccine (RV)
Polio (OPV and IPV)

www.vaccineinjuryteam.com...

a reply to: starviego

From the CDC:

Pre-vaccine Era In the 9th century, a Persian doctor published one of the first written accounts of measles disease. Francis Home, a Scottish physician, demonstrated in 1757 that measles is caused by an infectious agent in the blood of patients. In 1912, measles became a nationally notifiable disease in the United States, requiring U.S. healthcare providers and laboratories to report all diagnosed cases. In the first decade of reporting, an average of 6,000 measles-related deaths were reported each year. In the decade before 1963 when a vaccine became available, nearly all children got measles by the time they were 15 years of age. It is estimated 3 to 4 million people in the United States were infected each year. Also each year an estimated 400 to 500 people died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and 4,000 suffered encephalitis (swelling of the brain) from measles.

From January 1 to May 20, 2017, 100 people from 11 states (California, Florida, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Utah, and Washington) were reported to have measles.

In 2016, 70 people from 16 states were reported to have measles. In 2015, 188 people from 24 states and the District of Columbia were reported to have measles. In 2014, the United States experienced a record number of measles cases, with 667 cases from 27 states reported to CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases (NCIRD); this is the greatest number of cases since measles elimination was documented in the U.S. in 2000.

48,000 cases a year to 70 because of vaccinations. That's why there haven't been any deaths, low rate of infection.

Your kids may get lucky, but there is no doubt that vaccinations have saved millions (10 +) since the 60s. Life expectancy has doubled in the last 150 years, despite all the processed foods, lack of exercise (due to work and lifestyles), etc. Vaccines have plenty to do with that, if you want to believe it or not.

I was attending a conference in San Francisco, and got to listen to a speaker who wrote a book about the origin of vaccinations. He was watching children die by the hundreds in a hospital, because of no cure for a deadly disease. Nurses would literally go home with red uniforms, because of the bleeding.. they would bleed from all pores before dying. The first immunizations were terrible. Very harsh things to kill something worse. It would take their life to the brink and back repeatedly with each treatment. But they lived.

And so it goes with vaccinations. You fear autism, or hidden chips, or whatever.. but the things they are actually preventing are much worse. So sure.. avoid those advances in medicine if you really want to. But people now, have no idea how it used to be. You want to gamble with your child's life? Your decisions I guess, even if I do think it's monumentally irresponsible.

I will say this - if everyone immediately avoided vaccinations from this point on, we'd see epidemics, and mass deaths once again. Children again dying by the thousands, bleeding from their eyes and ears and pores. You only dodge the bullet because your irresponsible decision is still a minority decision. Your children are encountering many vaccinated children. Much lower chance of catching anything. You should be grateful for those that do vaccinate.. because their vaccinated children are preventing your own unvaccinated child from becoming the victim of a deadly virus that used to kill relentlessly in our past.

But sure.. let your conspiracy-minded "omg they are trying to kill our children" theories run rampant.. and those who do vaccinate will keep your kids safe. You're welcome.

a reply to: fleabit

I agree, but the the op is talking about forced vaccinations, which then gives rise to why you wouldn't. The question of vaccine efficacy is not really something worth debating. What we should be debating is evidence vaccines in their current form harm any children. When taking the hypocratic oath we swear to do no harm, if administering a vaccine damages any child we should investigate why and how to mitigate those effects.

Stopping vaccines would be disastrous, but blindly continuing with a programme that may harm even a few children is unethical. There is other tech available, the only problem is the cost. As you can see from FredT's comments money is a motivating factor in health and it should not be. As soon as the intent becomes financial rather than ethical we loose direction.

It has become a conspiracy because peoples concerns are being ignored rather than addressed. The government and pharmaceutical companies only have themselves to blame as their communication policies have failed. Your attitude is so typical of our current environment, we have become a society divided, ego and anger seem to rule. Your views like many others here are not balanced. You have allowed media bias cloud the rational mind.

What forced vaccinations? Unless he is talking about non U.S. vaccinations? The only forced vaccinations in the U.S. are when you join the military. I saw nothing in the OP about forced vaccinations.

I do believe that medical professionals continue to try to make vaccinations as safe and effective as possible. Mind.. I don't take a flu shot.. haven't since I was in the Army. But for deadly diseases, which you typically only get ONCE.. the positives greatly outweigh the negatives.

You mention the Hippocratic Oath.. I still feel for almost all those who practice medicine, it's still very important to them. I don't think for a moment they are slipping in dangerous things purposely into vaccinations for children against deadly diseases. I DO think a yearly vaccine for flu can be mishandled, so I don't get it. But for the types of immunizations the OP is talking about, I think it makes all the sense in the world to still get them.

originally posted by: fleabit
Your kids may get lucky, but there is no doubt that vaccinations have saved millions (10 +) since the 60s. Life expectancy has doubled in the last 150 years, despite all the processed foods, lack of exercise (due to work and lifestyles), etc. Vaccines have plenty to do with that, if you want to believe it or not.

I was attending a conference in San Francisco, and got to listen to a speaker who wrote a book about the origin of vaccinations. He was watching children die by the hundreds in a hospital, because of no cure for a deadly disease. Nurses would literally go home with red uniforms, because of the bleeding.. they would bleed from all pores before dying. The first immunizations were terrible. Very harsh things to kill something worse. It would take their life to the brink and back repeatedly with each treatment. But they lived.

And so it goes with vaccinations. You fear autism, or hidden chips, or whatever.. but the things they are actually preventing are much worse. So sure.. avoid those advances in medicine if you really want to. But people now, have no idea how it used to be. You want to gamble with your child's life? Your decisions I guess, even if I do think it's monumentally irresponsible.

I will say this - if everyone immediately avoided vaccinations from this point on, we'd see epidemics, and mass deaths once again. Children again dying by the thousands, bleeding from their eyes and ears and pores. You only dodge the bullet because your irresponsible decision is still a minority decision. Your children are encountering many vaccinated children. Much lower chance of catching anything. You should be grateful for those that do vaccinate.. because their vaccinated children are preventing your own unvaccinated child from becoming the victim of a deadly virus that used to kill relentlessly in our past.

But sure.. let your conspiracy-minded "omg they are trying to kill our children" theories run rampant.. and those who do vaccinate will keep your kids safe. You're welcome.

Disinfo much?

originally posted by: starviego
So if vaccines are so safe why is there a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program?

The program was created mainly to protect manufacturers from liability, as many companies were leaving the market because of lawsuits. As most of those lawsuits were unjustified and in order to protect the vaccines supply, the US government decided to pass the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (which created the compensation program). The same thing happened in many countries around the world.

This is why we need the program, to protect manufacturers from unjustified accusations that have no scientific evidence whatsoever behind them.

LOL there have been 0 deaths by vaccines. Perhaps you are not aware, but Vaers is a reporting system which enables anybody to report a suspected vaccine injury, I repeat: anybody, not just health professionals.

Vaers data is raw data that doesn't confirm a correlation between vaccines and the deaths reported, it just shows lay citizens believing a vaccine is to blame,it shows their belief, not evidence. So far 0 (ZERO) deaths have been proven to be caused by vaccines.

If you actually go to Vaers (instead of vising antivaxx sites full of fraudulent/ ignorant memes), you can click on each death reported and read how they have died and you will find that the vaccines was not the cause (for example: one died of cancer a week after receiving the vaccine, others by suicide, etc). Please go and investigate Vaers yourself.

a reply to: Agartha

i disagree on one issue VARS is not data -- its annecdotes

and my favoirite :

" turned into the incredible hulk "

was actually reported as an alledged " vaccine injury "

i rest my case

a reply to: ignorant_ape

They are anecdotes, I agree. I really believe some are trolls, for example one report accused a vaccine given five months before a child fell into a quarry and died. Some are genuine parents (regardless of their scientific illiteracy), but some like this one are sick trolls.

Strange that it doesn't happen with the UK's yellow card scheme.

a reply to: Rezlooper

a reply to: starviego

Here's some non made up numbers...

How many petitions have been awarded compensation?

According to the CDC, from 2006 to 2014 over 2.5 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. For petitions filed in this time period, 3,389 petitions were adjudicated by the Court, and of those 2,146 were compensated. This means for every 1 million doses of vaccine that were distributed, 1 individual was compensated.

Since 1988, over 16,794 petitions have been filed with the VICP. Over that 27 year time period, 14,441 petitions have been adjudicated, with 4,526 of those determined to be compensable, while 9,915 were dismissed. Total compensation paid over the life of the program is approximately $3.3 billion

www.hrsa.gov...

One out of a million.

I think that's about the same odds as being hit by lightning, so using your misguided logic, we should ban lightning too..

a reply to: FredT

Why should I put my child at risk because of their stupidity..............

This is the one that I have never been able to understand.

Why are your kids at risk? They are vaccinated! Therefore it should only be the other kids, those who are not vaccinated, that should be at any risk.

To put it another way, if you are immunized, aren't you immune? The disease can't hurt you. You should be free of concern.

P

a reply to: FredT

Here ya go.

CDC Website

originally posted by: pheonix358
This is the one that I have never been able to understand.

Why are your kids at risk? They are vaccinated! Therefore it should only be the other kids, those who are not vaccinated, that should be at any risk.

To put it another way, if you are immunized, aren't you immune? The disease can't hurt you. You should be free of concern.
P

Very simple to explain:

1) Vaccines (just like all drugs/contraception/etc) are not 100% effective, they are very effective, some more than others (on average they are between 90-100%).

2) Some children cannot be immunized, for various reasons, for example having severe allergies to a component, being too young, etc.

3) For some children vaccines will not work as effectively because of their immune system is weaker, for example some children with cancer, HIV etc.

The children in points 2 and 3 rely on our children to be vaccinated, because contagious diseases will have more difficulty reaching them if they are surrounded with people who are immune.

I'm for vaccinations...
But it also appears we inject people with a lot of crap they don't entirely need. Vaccinations are part of the overgrown pharmaceutical industry that looks to be more concerned with profits rather than actually curing people. If they did care about healing the sick why do we have treatments for so many medical conditions but not an outright cure?... Much more money to be had by treating someone for the remainder of their life than outright curing it.

You're not going to win this one, unfortunately, rez.

I've had plenty of discussions back and forth, and both sides use bad science. Pro vax, or "anyone with a degree" knows just that: what they're told. It's not a matter of knowledge or real life application, it's numbers on paper that they don't understand.

For instance, one of the most common vaccines arguments is about the flu vaccine, and that it's 99% effective and you're an idiot if you don't get it. That statement is both right and wrong. It's that effective against the strain it is designed for, while data from the CDC itself, states that the flu vaccine is only effective around 42% of the time, given the process in which it's preemptively made. Not to mention the studies that linked vaccines to neurological disorders that mirror the symptoms of autism- antivax beats the autism drum, provax says they're wrong. Antivax won't change their stance, and provax will never admit they could be wrong. We could also get into the Mercury arguments where the "degree owning elite" somehow assume that chemicals both eaten and digested and injected directly into our bloodstream, react with our body the same way, and call you a "charlatan" or a quack for suggesting (with evidence) otherwise. I also love the vaccinated "herd immunity", which coincidentally, in their eyes, only seems to work when everyone is vaccinated.

In a nutshell, most antivaxers are caught using bad science, name calling, misrepresenting facts; while most provaxers are......... Caught using bad science, name calling, and misrepresenting facts. It's a lose lose situation. I say, to each their own

Did everyone forget what science is? Experiments and observations. Have the past 100 years been enough to prove or disprove the effectiveness of vaccines? Probably not. Short term studies do prove the diseases of the past are declining but what diseases and older diseases become the norm after the first few round of vaccines? There just hasn't been enough time to really say vaccines are safe and we should all comply. There is lots of evidence vaccinations do indeed cause health problems in some people. And in my opinion, those short term reactions can be considered much more scientific than the short term effectiveness of vaccines. Foreign substances in the body that harm are much quicker in showing signs than substances that help. Also, don't say unvaccinated children are a risk to your vaccinated children. That's silly and it's easy to argue the vaccinated people cause more worry to health problems than the unvaccinated. My last point is that the "system" says to get vaccinated. That alone is enough proof to not get those silly injections. Flu shot? Yeah right, I'm not an idiot.

originally posted by: Charlyboy
a reply to: Blaine91555

There is no direct evidence that vaccines cause autism but there is evidence they contribute to an environment in which autism and other conditions manifest.

OK, that's quite different than saying vaccines cause autism. There is no evidence strong enough to risk a child's life over.

Sorry if I come across as blunt but I have spent years debating this with my peers and we go round and round in circles. Mostly because they like FredT do not want to accept that vaccines their current form may not be as safe as we have been told.

Could it be because they think that no evidence means that it's dangerous to put peoples lives at risk over "may not be" and it's unprofessional and maybe a bit irrational to lead people to not vaccinate their children?

I have no doubt at all that there are rare cases where a child has an adverse reaction to a vaccine and that's true of even common foods. I also have no doubt that if parents stop allowing their children to be vaccinated, many will die as a direct result. I'd encourage your peers to continue to debate you with common sense.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Look how magnanimous you are. A few degrees short of a god-complex. To think you know what is right for everyone and the moral superiority to dictate.

People like you are everything that is wrong with this world.

My god. I swear half of this website is plagued with Big Pharma lobbyists... Whose soul purpose is to maintain the status quo and alienate anyone who objects. Absolutely sickening on a premier conspiracy forum. You people should be ashamed of yourselves.

The cognitive dissonance is irrefutable. Can any one of you pro vaxxers prove that a modern world without vaccines would plunge into a sea of disease and chaos as you so fervently insist?

It's so funny how most of your arguments about the OP are how the science in their references are BS.... They have nothing to do with science. It's simply ethics. They show that there was a massive decline in all the major "scare diseases" long before vaccines were mass produced.

Hence, all of your arguments are rendered meaningless. How can you morally support this system after learning this? What exactly are your motives here?