Nicene Creed

a reply to: windword

I havnt had a chance to really delve but

Before creation God was
God was love
Love is expressed
It can't be expressed in an individual only, it needs relationship

As for Christ being a Jew
Yes, though He brought a new covenant

I have a link in this thread, study it, or not, just don't disagree with me if you don't understand what I think
You don't know what I know so it's pointless trying to argue either way

a reply to: Raggedyman

As for Christ being a Jew
Yes, though He brought a new covenant

Okay. But he didn't change the nature of God.

a reply to: Disturbinatti

I was just a moment ago wondering why it is that the Nicene Creed is more authoritative than the New Testament as it has remained the majority of Christians belief since the Council of Nicea, a mysterious Council indeed. It was declared at that council that Jesus (pbuh) is God the Son and God the Father and the Holy Spirit form a "Holy Trinity" 3 entities constituting one l "God." Equal(s).Text

There are two Apostle Creeds of the same substance. The Nicaea Creed of 325 ce and the revised Nicaea Creed which is called the Niceno Creed of 381 ce. Regardless of either one both confess that Jesus was the Begotten Son of God.

Before the Nicaea Creed of 325 ce the confession that Jesus was the Begotten Son of God was still part of the liturgy of Christianity. Before the Romans slaughtered the Jewish Christians in 70 ce and 135 ce and reinvented the Christian Church as we now see it, the same confession that Jesus was the Begotten Son of God existed as the confession of the Nazarene movement. In fact we can go back to the trial of Jesus before the Jerusalem Sanhedrin when Jesus was charged with blasphemy. This blasphemy was that He [Jesus] claimed that He was a Son of God. Not that He was God but that He was the son of God. That was the charge and He was acquitted overwhelmingly by the Jewish Court of hewed stone.

Now I don't expect a Muslim to understand that their Quran would acknowledge this because the Quran insists that Jesus did not die in the manner as the NT declares and that the Jews and Romans had the wrong fellow in this entire affair. The Muslims declare that even Jesus' mother and brothers and sisters and uncle Joseph of Arimathea as well as other disciples, such as Peter, were all mistaken in believing that the man on the tree was Jesus. In other words even Nicodemus and Joseph who took the body down from the tree were mistaken.

Nevertheless, the charges for blasphemy against Jesus by seventy one men who did not even know who they were trying, were dropped from the Jewish court. They then took this misidentified Jesus to the Roman court and had Pilate re charge Him with sedition and kill this poor misidentified man. Meanwhile Jesus escapes to live a good long life somewhere in La La land.

Nevertheless. your charge is that the Nicaea Creed is regarded as more authoritative than the NT when in fact it is not. In fact it is in total agreement with the NT.

Nicaea Creed states ----
We believe in one God, -------------------------[so does the NT]
the Father almighty, ----------------------------[so does the NT]
maker of all things visible and invisible; ---- [so does the NT]
And in one Lord, Jesus Christ, ---- [so does the NT]
the Son of God, -----------------------------------[So does the NT]
begotten from the Father, only-begotten,
that is, from the substance of the Father,-----[Sp does the NT]
God from God, -------------------------------------]So does the NT]
light from light,
true God from true God,--------------------------[So does the NT]
begotten not made, -------------------------------[So does the NT]
of one substance with the Father, ---------------[So does the NT]
through Whom all things came into being,
things in heaven and things on earth,-----------[So does the NT]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apostle John states - John 1:1-10
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
(2) The same was in the beginning with God.
(3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
(4) In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
(5) And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
(6) There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
(7) The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
(8) He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
(9) That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
(10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

But the Christian believes more than this of which you do not understand and that is that the Creator of this terrestrial universe was created by the Word of God who became this very Jesus who you deny as being the Begotten of The Most High. Nevertheless, the Creeds of men are simply confessions of their faith and not always in agreement with the words of the apostles or James the brother of the Jesus who in turn was the Word and now is the Word once again.

a reply to: Seede

If there werw 70 Nicene Creeds they'd still be non Biblical man made traditions.

But the Nicene Creed that is the core of Christian theology isn't in the Bible.

In fact I have already proven it is refuted by Jesus pbuh.

Nothing you can do can change the facts that Jesus pbuh DENIED being God and refuted THE POSSIBILITY of plurality of The Deity God.

I don't know what your point was.

Are you saying that "Jesus pbuh DID claim "I am God?''

That he taught "Trinity" worship?

I hope not, you'd be wrong or lying if so.

originally posted by: Seede


a reply to: Disturbinatti

I was just a moment ago wondering why it is that the Nicene Creed is more authoritative than the New Testament as it has remained the majority of Christians belief since the Council of Nicea, a mysterious Council indeed. It was declared at that council that Jesus (pbuh) is God the Son and God the Father and the Holy Spirit form a "Holy Trinity" 3 entities constituting one l "God." Equal(s).Text

There are two Apostle Creeds of the same substance. The Nicaea Creed of 325 ce and the revised Nicaea Creed which is called the Niceno Creed of 381 ce. Regardless of either one both confess that Jesus was the Begotten Son of God.

Before the Nicaea Creed of 325 ce the confession that Jesus was the Begotten Son of God was still part of the liturgy of Christianity. Before the Romans slaughtered the Jewish Christians in 70 ce and 135 ce and reinvented the Christian Church as we now see it, the same confession that Jesus was the Begotten Son of God existed as the confession of the Nazarene movement. In fact we can go back to the trial of Jesus before the Jerusalem Sanhedrin when Jesus was charged with blasphemy. This blasphemy was that He [Jesus] claimed that He was a Son of God. Not that He was God but that He was the son of God. That was the charge and He was acquitted overwhelmingly by the Jewish Court of hewed stone.

Now I don't expect a Muslim to understand that their Quran would acknowledge this because the Quran insists that Jesus did not die in the manner as the NT declares and that the Jews and Romans had the wrong fellow in this entire affair. The Muslims declare that even Jesus' mother and brothers and sisters and uncle Joseph of Arimathea as well as other disciples, such as Peter, were all mistaken in believing that the man on the tree was Jesus. In other words even Nicodemus and Joseph who took the body down from the tree were mistaken.

Nevertheless, the charges for blasphemy against Jesus by seventy one men who did not even know who they were trying, were dropped from the Jewish court. They then took this misidentified Jesus to the Roman court and had Pilate re charge Him with sedition and kill this poor misidentified man. Meanwhile Jesus escapes to live a good long life somewhere in La La land.

Nevertheless. your charge is that the Nicaea Creed is regarded as more authoritative than the NT when in fact it is not. In fact it is in total agreement with the NT.

Nicaea Creed states ----
We believe in one God, -------------------------[so does the NT]
the Father almighty, ----------------------------[so does the NT]
maker of all things visible and invisible; ---- [so does the NT]
And in one Lord, Jesus Christ, ---- [so does the NT]
the Son of God, -----------------------------------[So does the NT]
begotten from the Father, only-begotten,
that is, from the substance of the Father,-----[Sp does the NT]
God from God, -------------------------------------]So does the NT]
light from light,
true God from true God,--------------------------[So does the NT]
begotten not made, -------------------------------[So does the NT]
of one substance with the Father, ---------------[So does the NT]
through Whom all things came into being,
things in heaven and things on earth,-----------[So does the NT]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apostle John states - John 1:1-10
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
(2) The same was in the beginning with God.
(3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
(4) In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
(5) And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
(6) There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
(7) The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
(8) He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
(9) That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
(10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

But the Christian believes more than this of which you do not understand and that is that the Creator of this terrestrial universe was created by the Word of God who became this very Jesus who you deny as being the Begotten of The Most High. Nevertheless, the Creeds of men are simply confessions of their faith and not always in agreement with the words of the apostles or James the brother of the Jesus who in turn was the Word and now is the Word once again.

I already refuted John 1 by telling people that God= Tontheon and Logos = theos(divine).

So a mistranslation is what that is and flagrant deception.


Imagine all those decieved Christians who hang hat on John 1 as "proof" that Jesus pbuh is "God!"

Not realizing it just says divine.

Well John is also called that, John the Divine.

Is he God TOO?!!!

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Raggedyman

As for Christ being a Jew
Yes, though He brought a new covenant

Okay. But he didn't change the nature of God.

Who could? And of all people Jesus pbuh would be the LAST to teach lies like "God is Trinity and I 1/3 of it."

Christianity hasn't a clue.

a reply to: Seede



I feel like you think using more words than everyone makes you more right...

But since the Bible denies Trinity and the deification of Jesus as God and since you think a refutation of my factual statements is within those words I am afraid I must tell you that you have wasted your time.

And obviously aren't very well informed.

I proved my statement in the OP and have reinforced​ it every time anyone attempted to deny it.

You will be no exception.

a reply to: Raggedyman


New Covenant is not what you think it is, which if you are fundy is the equivalent of Torah abrogation.

What you don't realize is it is spoken of in the DSS in "The land of Damascus" which has an esoteric meaning, Damascus does. I don't see you as one who would understand the esoteric or know it exists possibly even but let's just say it is related to the New Covenant spoken of in I believe Habbakuk.

Now it doesn't say that the New abrogates the Old Covenant and Jesus pbuh outright says not a jot or tittle of the Torah shall be abolished or the Prophets. Which explains why you still have it attached to your New Testament.

I would love to hear what you know about Jesus pbuh teachings on the New Covenant, would you mind quoting your favorites?

Another thing is Torah Law was only for Israelites not goyim and this was declared by James pbuh at the Jerusalem Council.

And that goyim never had a Covenant with God and weren't governed by Torah at any time.

And the converts were never accepted as equals in Judaism.

Jesus pbuh changed that, the New Covenant is the first Covenant with goy.

a reply to: Disturbinatti

If there werw 70 Nicene Creeds they'd still be non Biblical man made traditions. But the Nicene Creed that is the core of Christian theology isn't in the Bible.

I have shown you that the core of the Church Creed is the same as John wrote. If you say that John one is a lie then show me that proof. You claim a lot of things without source and then call your claim as proof. You have proved nothing in the theological realm.

Non biblical? Show me your credentials that you are a qualified linguist to translate, transliterate, interpret or otherwise judge the biblical Hebrew and Aramaic literature.

Are you saying that "Jesus pbuh DID claim "I am God?'' That he taught "Trinity" worship?

Do you not understand what is written? You seem to be as a immature child with no comprehension of what is posted. I gave you the entire thought in understandable language as to the estate of the Christ Jesus.

Jesus was not God as He was terrestrial but preexisted as the Celestial Word of God, just as John has declared. As He died and was restored to His formal estate He now is once again "The Word Of God". When He returns to govern this world, He will return as the "Celestial Word Of God." He will never again be in the terrestrial substance as Jesus the Son of man.

The trinity or outpouring of the Holy Spirit did not occur till after Jesus died and was restored as the Celestial Son of God. This means that the trinity, which is shown in the history of Acts by Luke, was not liturgy till after James instituted the movement in the synagogue of the Nazarene sect. Therefore not being liturgy in an organized synagogue it was not privy to any part of any worship. This means, in plain English, that the trinity was first introduced in the synagogue of James which, by the way, was well over two hundred years before any sort of organized church was developed in that area.

So if you are looking for the trinity being some sort of liturgy in the NT then you are on the wrong track. It was not introduced till Jesus sent the comforter (Holy Spirit) after His death. This Spirit of comfort is that Trinity that you do not even comprehend.

What does this mean? it means that you do not understand what NT trinity means. It is not an entity and I suggest that you study this to understand it because you certainly do not understand this whatsoever. You are lost without a map.

JESUS explains, in His own words, the trinity beautifully in John.

To take anyone else’s word for the validity or no of the trinity would be denying Christ’s own words.

John: 2-3 Yes, a time is coming when the one who kills you will think he’s serving God. 3 They’ll do this because they haven’t known the Father or me.

They have not known the FATHER of ME (the Son).

5 “But now I am going to the one who sent me.

Back to the Father.

7 However, I’m telling you the truth. It’s for your advantage that I’m going away, because if I don’t go away, the Helper won’t come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.

Christ will send the Holy Spirit back to his disciples on Pentecost to remain in us all who believe in Him forever.

13 Yet when the Spirit of Truth comes, he’ll guide you into all truth. He won’t speak on his own accord, but he’ll speak whatever he hears and will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, because he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine. That is why I said, ‘He will take what is mine and declare it to you.’

Truth = Holy Spirit
'Take what is mine and give it to you' = The will of Christ worked through the Holy Spirit.
'All that the Father has is mine. = Self explanatory.

28 I left the Father and came into the world. Now[g] I’m leaving the world and going back to the Father.”

31 Jesus answered them, “Do you now believe? 32 Listen, the time is coming, indeed it has already come, when you will be scattered, each of you to his own home, and you will leave me all by myself. Yet I’m not alone, because the Father is with me. 33 I have told you this so that through me you may have peace. In the world you’ll have trouble, but be courageous—I’ve overcome the world!”

Doubt how you will, come up with scripture picked from here and picked from there that of course is your choice.

I have no doubt in this chapter, in Christ's own words, He proves the singularship of each of the Godheads and their oneness.

peace

a reply to: Seede

So if you are looking for the trinity being some sort of liturgy in the NT then you are on the wrong track. It was not introduced till Jesus sent the comforter (Holy Spirit) after His death. This Spirit of comfort is that Trinity that you do not even comprehend.

Look to my post above.

I’m positive this is Christ explaining the trinity before his death and the feast of Pentecost.

peace

a reply to: Seede


You claim to have shown what you didn't.

I would proceed with caution.

You can't show that which doesn't exist so you are delusional.

I told you that theos is lesser than Tontheon, God, only means "divine" as in "John the Divine/ Theos."

What leads you to believe you have done anything like what you claim?

John 1 has been refuted by me and is the go to "proof text" for trinitarians but it's a mistranslation as I have demonstrated so void as evidence, is not proof but proves that that John DIDN'T say "Word was God."

So Word ISN'T God.

Just divine.

Comprehend?

a reply to: silo13

'Take what is mine and give it to you

I, me, mine and yours. The 4 fold expression of the Hebrew GOD.

a reply to: Disturbinatti

No it's not what I think, it's only what you think because you think you are the only one who could be correct
Guess what
Jesus is God
The Spirit is God
The Father is God

I am right because as it's been shown over and over again by scripture here, the Trinity is justified
You can say we are wrong but obviously we,don't agree, get it.
You go on and on and on

Fine, we disagree

You know what disturbing

Muhamad was a pedophile, you disagree but history states otherwise, Muhamad married a child, that makes him a detestable paedophile, yet you worship him
Youmsaymno he wasn't
I say yes he was, history recorded proves it
We disagree, but I don't endlessly bang on about it
This is the problem with Muslims, you can't just let it go, you just have to grind and fight and carry on
Believe what you want, leave us to believe what we want, what's it to you any way

originally posted by: Disturbinatti
a reply to: Seede


You claim to have shown what you didn't.

I would proceed with caution.

You can't show that which doesn't exist so you are delusional.

I told you that theos is lesser than Tontheon, God, only means "divine" as in "John the Divine/ Theos."

What leads you to believe you have done anything like what you claim?

John 1 has been refuted by me and is the go to "proof text" for trinitarians but it's a mistranslation as I have demonstrated so void as evidence, is not proof but proves that that John DIDN'T say "Word was God."

So Word ISN'T God.

Just divine.

Comprehend?

Seede did show it and very clearly
You just can't comprehend simple English

You have demonstrated your ignorance

Muhamad is was a local moon Demi god localized to,a few Arabs, yet you,worship him as the only god
Prove allah is Jehovah, he ain't

a reply to: windword

That information has no evidence I can find

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Disturbinatti

I don't see the Nicea creed as more authoritative than the preserved word of God and never will.

Agreed, but in a time when most were not literate, it was a primer on what the facts for believers need to be.

a reply to: Raggedyman


LOL

The Tetragrammaton is all about "existence". I AM!

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Raggedyman


LOL

The Tetragrammaton is all about "existence". I AM!

Lol, how do you figure they are related
That's very strange to my opinion

While you could be right, it doesn't seem you have any real evidence to justify your statement of faith

Who is the first and the last according to the bible
Jesus is the first and the last Revelation chapter 22, please go read that scripture, return and humble yourself

a reply to: Raggedyman

Who is the first and the last according to the bible

Uh, that would be this guy.

Now when Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua went up to him and asked, “Are you for us or for our enemies?”

“Neither,” he replied, “but as commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.” Then Joshua fell facedown to the ground in reverence, and asked him, “What message does my Lord[e] have for his servant?”

The commander of the Lord’s army replied, “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy.” And Joshua did so.

...........Who is also this guy: www.biblegateway.com...

Lol, how do you figure they are related

Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”

God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”