Pope Francis wants to Enforce his Mark (mark of the beast): 21 States are preparing to let him

originally posted by: ScatteredThirdAngel
One of his suggestions was keeping Sunday as the commonly shared weekly day of rest.

Sorry, no, that doesn't qualify. Not celebrating Sundays is just one of those trivial differences which minority Christian groups take up to make themselves special and unique. The Jehovah's Witnesses have created a fist-full of them.

Revelation ch14 threatens eternal fire on those who accept the mark of the Beast. God is going to reserve that treatment for the kind of defiance that he really cares about. He is not getting hot under the collar about people taking Sunday as a rest day. Sorry, seventh-day people, you are not that special.

originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel

Thank you.

Fixed

I am not denying salvation is a gift. I'm denying that we can proclaim to have that gift, and yet, live un-Christlike. That's not complicating anything. Jesus kept the law. To be like Him, we do the same. It is simple.

I agree it should be the goal of all Christians to attempt to live more Christ like. However we will all fail at this.

I don't think what day someone observes the Sabbath matters to Jesus, what matters is what is in your heart and what your PERSONAL relationship with Him is.

You're very welcome!

Many Christians have the same sentiment, but that's just not true. When we look back at Ancient Israel, for example, God did not teach them to simply keep "a Sabbath", He taught them to keep "the" Sabbath. He rained manna for six days, and refused to on the 7th Day. If they didn't prepare on the 6th day for the 7th day, they simply did not eat, because God did not rain down manna for them on the 7th Day.

The Bible prophecies of a beast who would "think" to change His times and laws, and that is exactly what is done.

The Bible says antichrist will:

Daniel 7:25, "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."

The Roman Catholic Church SAYS:

"The Pope has the power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ." "The Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ." -Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. (The Pope can modify divine law.) Ferraris' Ecclesiastical Dictionary.

"Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; --she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority." -Rev. Stephan Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism, "On the Obedience Due to the Church," chap. 2, p. 174. (Imprimatur, John Cardinal McCloskey, archbishop of New York.)

"The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed...the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by its own authority." Canon and Tradition, p. 263

So really you are really obeying the commandment of a beast, or you are obeying the commandments of God. This precisely does matter, God says that He will pour out His wrath upon all those who worship the beast, and his image. You get the mark of the beast when you obey this spiritual commandment (when it is enforced by law) instead of obeying the law of God.

Deuteronomy 11:18  Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.

A sign upon your hands and forehead has to do with commandments. Every precept of God matters, and God's law directly tells us to keep the 7th day holy, not "a Sabbath".

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: ScatteredThirdAngel
One of his suggestions was keeping Sunday as the commonly shared weekly day of rest.

Sorry, no, that doesn't qualify. Not celebrating Sundays is just one of those trivial differences which minority Christian groups take up to make themselves special and unique. The Jehovah's Witnesses have created a fist-full of them.

Revelation ch14 threatens eternal fire on those who accept the mark of the Beast. God is going to reserve that treatment for the kind of defiance that he really cares about. He is not getting hot under the collar about people taking Sunday as a rest day. Sorry, seventh-day people, you are not that special.

It's not "trivial". God said His wrath would be poured out upon those who accept the mark of the beast. It's a direct commandment, and if we look at God's dealings with ancient Israel, we would see that yes, the very day does matter. He refused to rain manna on one specific day, and those who did not gather and prepare on the sixth day, just didn't eat on the 7th day.

a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel
I commend to your attention 2 Corinthians ch3 v14;
"But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ."
The "veil" is the literal interpretation, not modified by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
You people are making a point of reading the old covenant WITH THE VEIL, and that is where you are going wrong. That is what is hardening your hearts.
O foolish Galatians, you abandon the gospel of faith by trying to make your salvation depend on something that you DO.
For heavens sake, allow Christ to remove that veil over your minds. Start thinking like New Testament people, instead of Old Testament people.

a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel

RUN FOR THE HILLS ..............THE POPE IS COMING!

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel
I commend to your attention 2 Corinthians ch3 v14;
"But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ."
The "veil" is the literal interpretation, not modified by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
You people are making a point of reading the old covenant WITH THE VEIL, and that is where you are going wrong. That is what is hardening your hearts.
O foolish Galatians, you abandon the gospel of faith by trying to make your salvation depend on something that you DO.
For heavens sake, allow Christ to remove that veil over your minds. Start thinking like New Testament people, instead of Old Testament people.

The true blindness is in those who literally agree with keeping every single commandment, yet at the same time falsely proclaim that Sunday is the true day. That is blind. That is also, inconsistent.

Isaiah 8:20  To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel

Yeah that's all good and proper but

You said it was ok for me to murder because Paul said that all things were lawful but not all things are edifying.
Your reply seems to indicate the shallowness of your faith.
I qualified my statement with the laws of love that Christ taught.

You then suggest James demands works to justify faith, again spoken as by a person who has no comprehension of Gods word. James points to works as evidence, no to a justification works doctrine, as the fruit of the Spirit, again I feel every word I say will be like rain on a turtles back.

Gods Old Testament lawmdemands, not the New Testament

Please tell me, why don't the Adventists still stone adulterers and homosexuals, surely that is Gods law. How about tattoos, does that separate you from God.

What OT laws do you have to keep and what laws can you dismiss from the OT and if you don't mind explaining a reason behind why you can do what YOU want with the
laws and not follow,every single one as the OT demands

Also, what is the point of Jesus Christs sacrifice if we are still under the law.
What value was His death?

a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel

Don't you think it's funny you condemn people like a Pharisee, quoting the Old Testament at them, condemning people like those who condemned Jesus
Don't you know that Isaiah was a Jew talking to Israel, those under the Mosaic covenant

Christians are part of a new covenant
Please go away and study the two covenants, the old and the new.
Jesus died to free YOU from religion, it's all over, no more priests needed, no more sacrifices, no tithes, no more laws, no sabbaths, just love.
Every day is a sabath, every day we worship God, every day is sacred, every single thing we as christians do is an expression of love to God (well,we try).

The Catholic Churches poison runs deep, next you will be buying indulgences.
The Catholics lied, God loves us because of what Jesus has completed, not what we do


There is a book,called The End of Religion by Bruxy Cavey, I recommend you read it
I fear those who hold to legalism will be condemned by the law

Jesus taught two laws, love God love each other, you, you teach many more.
You teach like you are infallible, like you are the Pope, the leader, above all the church, above Gods word, like you are the religious leader.
Be careful

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel

So how about other Jewish laws, what do we keep, what can we flick

Your argument is baseless and childish

Stop talking, go away,,read Romans and Acts and then think about them, use your brain
I can't fathom how you can actually think the way you do if you read the bible, if you do study it

What about where Paul,states "All things are lawful but not all things are edifying"
So tell me are you above the Apostle Paul
Who,do you think you are?

Are you bigger, better, some say the bible is perfect, yet you, you can mold it, change it as you see fit, so you are Gods word above the bible
Interesting

Jesus said that the law was made for man, not man for the law
Yet you make man a subject of the law, yet Jesus said that we are to be subject to Him
If you want to be under the law, fine. Me, I am und er Jesus not your stupid laws
I am not a Jew

Anyway, you don't seem to have the capacity to understand that Gods love is sufficient for our salvation, you still think you need to work for your salvation, you have no concept of faith or grace
You don't understand why Jesus chose to die, you are still under the burden of Catholicism, working hard by obeying laws and doing works to,earn salvation.
Salvation is a gift, work for it and you will be condemned because you are not good enough, your works are as dirty rags
Accept salvation as a free good oft, unearned and then do your works in love towards others, not to attain anything for your salvation and you become free from religion. Love God and love each other

In Isaiah, God said He wants love not sacrifice.

It is beyond you, ask God to explain it through His Spirit, if you really want salvation?
Otherwise ignore me and continue down the path where you will find your works worthless one judgement day

My God, the holy spirit was upon you when you wrote those words.

I still have goose bumps......

Pray for me brother.

I hesitate to enter this discussion, to be honest. But here goes.

I think it's very important to remember that God is bigger than we can possibly imagine, that He is perfect in every way - that is, perfectly loving, perfectly merciful, and yes, perfectly just.

So let's play this out a bit. How about a young man who feels called to be a pastor. His longest day is Saturday, he works all day, preparing for the sermon and services next morning, he meets with people from his congregation, or maybe performs a wedding. He works on Sunday too, and takes Monday off.

So, when he gets to the end of his life of serving God, taking care of His people, drawing new people to Him, is the God you believe in so fickle as to say to him, "You, child, failed because you worked on Saturday. Go to the lake of fire." Is that the God you believe in?

Don Carson gave a wonderful illustration in a sermon over a year ago. He describes two Hebrews in Goshen on the day of the final plague in Egypt, the first Passover. One is worried about what will happen, he is fearful, and his faith is weak, but does believe in God. Another is not, he is full of confidence and trusts in God. Which one loses his son to the destroyer?

Neither. Because salvation is a gift, and that gift is dependent upon one work - the work of Christ Jesus on the cross. It is not dependent upon even the intensity of our faith, but the strength of the object of that faith - Jesus, God Himself.
I encourage you to read the illustration here: Don Carson: The Ground of All Human Assurance Before God.

The corollary to that is that it is not dependent upon when you observe the Sabbath, or even that you observe a Sabbath day at all. Revelation is fuzzy in a lot of places, but one thing comes through clear - taking the Mark of the Beast will be a conscious choice to accept and worship the Beast, not some trickery of the calendar. Again, God is perfect, He will not send millions of people who believe in Him honestly to the lake of fire because of scheduling.

I don't know how it will all play out (and neither does anyone else), but I do know He is simply not that capricious.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

matey I am a nobody, best I can say is just love others
That's it, all I got, I am sure God doesn't hear my prayers

Keerkigaard said prayer doesn't change God, it changes us

a reply to: PrairieShepherd

You underestimate your content
Better than I could have ever said it

NVM

a reply to: Raggedyman
I think I starred most of your posts in this thread, RM, both because I agree and you have a fire to your faith I lack.

I gotta say though, I disagree with this part:

I am sure God doesn't hear my prayers

Brother, I am certain of just the opposite: He does hear your prayers. Every one. Look for Him in your circumstances, you will find Him.

a reply to: Raggedyman
Thank you, Raggedy, that is humbling.

originally posted by: PrairieShepherd
I hesitate to enter this discussion, to be honest. But here goes.

I think it's very important to remember that God is bigger than we can possibly imagine, that He is perfect in every way - that is, perfectly loving, perfectly merciful, and yes, perfectly just.

So let's play this out a bit. How about a young man who feels called to be a pastor. His longest day is Saturday, he works all day, preparing for the sermon and services next morning, he meets with people from his congregation, or maybe performs a wedding. He works on Sunday too, and takes Monday off.

So, when he gets to the end of his life of serving God, taking care of His people, drawing new people to Him, is the God you believe in so fickle as to say to him, "You, child, failed because you worked on Saturday. Go to the lake of fire." Is that the God you believe in?

Don Carson gave a wonderful illustration in a sermon over a year ago. He describes two Hebrews in Goshen on the day of the final plague in Egypt, the first Passover. One is worried about what will happen, he is fearful, and his faith is weak, but does believe in God. Another is not, he is full of confidence and trusts in God. Which one loses his son to the destroyer?

Neither. Because salvation is a gift, and that gift is dependent upon one work - the work of Christ Jesus on the cross. It is not dependent upon even the intensity of our faith, but the strength of the object of that faith - Jesus, God Himself.
I encourage you to read the illustration here: Don Carson: The Ground of All Human Assurance Before God.

The corollary to that is that it is not dependent upon when you observe the Sabbath, or even that you observe a Sabbath day at all. Revelation is fuzzy in a lot of places, but one thing comes through clear - taking the Mark of the Beast will be a conscious choice to accept and worship the Beast, not some trickery of the calendar. Again, God is perfect, He will not send millions of people who believe in Him honestly to the lake of fire because of scheduling.

I don't know how it will all play out (and neither does anyone else), but I do know He is simply not that capricious.

God winks at ignorance. A soul can honestly not know the truth about the Sabbath. But there will come a time that the soul must make a choice, obedience or disobedience. At that point, if disobedience is chosen, and that for eternity, there is no more that God can do for the soul. The soul just lives on in disobedience. God will do all He can to reach a soul and bring them towards the truth. You absolutely must be obedient to all of God's commandments. If not, then death is the result.

Revelation 22:14  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel

You absolutely must be obedient to all of God's commandments. If not, then death is the result.

So...you have set up an altar to YHWH, found a Levite, and are performing sacrifices then?

That's where that line of thinking goes. If you believe that, then you believe Jesus' sacrifice did nothing, and you are still under the Mosaic Covenant.

Jesus' sacrifice paid the price for all who honestly turn to Him. Obedience is expected as a process of becoming more like Him, yes, but it is a response to salvation, not the cause of it. If you believe in Christ Jesus you are saved, period.

There's nothing you can do to earn grace. The debt of sin to an infinite God is an infinite debt and could only be paid by an infinite God-Man. Whether you observe the Sabbath on Saturday, Sunday, or not at all is irrelevant to your salvation. Relevant to your sanctification, possibly, but the Father will forgive even that if you trust the Son.

John 6:38-40 - "38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me: that I should lose none of those He has given Me but should raise them up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

It goes like this. Jesus does the will of the Father. Jesus is God, God is perfect, thus Jesus is perfect. Therefore Jesus will execute the task given to Him by the Father perfectly. The task is that none who are given to Him will be lost and He will raise them to eternal life (salvation). Who are those who are given to Him? Those who look to and believe in the Son, Jesus.

All that said, I can see that you & I will not come to an agreement over this. But, I'm confident that when we both get to Heaven we can sit down and have a chat about it. God bless you, brother.