How would one prove Tarot Card Readings have validity?

originally posted by: BStoltman
This question came about from this video I watched, which this Arcanum guy, had a Tarot Reading done live, and wanted to see if they have validity. It was an interesting video, however I guess as I thought about it, What would it take to prove something like this. Especially since they vary so much from person to person. Does anyone have an idea of how one would go about proving something like that?

you wanna know if tarot reading is real? Google the james randi challenge. Check to see if there any tarot readings that have won that challenge. If they have. Then yes I believe tarot reading is real or they are a damn good trickster.

originally posted by: spookykt
I believe very strongly in tarot cards. They read your energy, unlike ouija boards, that read outside energy.

Tarot cards can only work (internationally - across oceans) if there is a negative entity on both sides that can relay the emotions of the caller to the negative entity attached to the card picker.
Done it, via live real time chat, from England - USA.

Whatever one believes in, will happen and play out, because one's spirit focuses on that object and shows the negative entities (demons) what the mortal human devotes their spiritual essence towards; hint: Law of Attraction.

Some would have faith in Jesus Christ via a Cross on a chain around their throats.
Others would have a tattoo of a daemon around their heart.
Some might have a Pagan tattoo of thorns / leaves around their neck.

Note: all throat tattoos / physical objects are basically a noose. However, they do show others where their faith belongs too.

Everyone needs faith of some sort in this (hidden) spiritual world.
We are always being monitored and judged by spiritual entities that monitor our every thought and emotional feeling.
Oh let us not leave out Jesus who will be the one and final Judge of all mortals.

originally posted by: BStoltman
This question came about from this video I watched, which this Arcanum guy, had a Tarot Reading done live, and wanted to see if they have validity. It was an interesting video, however I guess as I thought about it, What would it take to prove something like this. Especially since they vary so much from person to person. Does anyone have an idea of how one would go about proving something like that?

I keep an open mind. But I'm gullible. Stories of many foreseers have Nostradamus or the oracle of Delphi had famously been know in history. But tarot cards were born during the age of spiritualism. And that age was know for frauds and cheats. If the supernatural can be produced in a control scientific environment. And can be reproduced many times from multiple source. I think the credible would drastically grew. But sadly there has been no proof that tarot cards work.

My readings have all been bogus as far as I can tell.

originally posted by: Lucky109
My readings have all been bogus as far as I can tell.

errrhm...I do readings with tarot cards sometimes. You want a reading lucky? Just slip me a 50 dollar bill and you got it buddy. I already predict your wallet is going be missing a 50 dollar bill? Am I right on the money? Deny all ignorance.

It all depends on what you mean by "validity" and what you think Tarot cards do. If you think Tarot allows you to see the future or navigate reality to find the truth, then it doesn't do that. That's not what it's for.

What it actually does is present ideas and concepts to a person through highly symbolic and structured images and link them together with a situation that is in flux. And that will naturally have a physical effect on reality. So it's not like: "This is going to happen." It's more like: "Think of your situation in this new way, and understand that you have options you might not have recognized which will allow you to actively address the situation."

In that way, the Tarot is completely valid. It doesn't even matter if you "believe" in the Tarot. It will work whether someone believes or not, because the idea that gets put in your head will change your reality no matter what.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
It all depends on what you mean by "validity" and what you think Tarot cards do. If you think Tarot allows you to see the future or navigate reality to find the truth, then it doesn't do that. That's not what it's for.

What it actually does is present ideas and concepts to a person through highly symbolic and structured images and link them together with a situation that is in flux. And that will naturally have a physical effect on reality. So it's not like: "This is going to happen." It's more like: "Think of your situation in this new way, and understand that you have options you might not have recognized which will allow you to actively address the situation."

In that way, the Tarot is completely valid. It doesn't even matter if you "believe" in the Tarot. It will work whether someone believes or not, because the idea that gets put in your head will change your reality no matter what.

Yes, you are absolutely correct, in that, the Tarot reading by a seasoned reader can interpret the quantum enigma information as it changes from wave-like to particle-like, which can materialize in the Tarot cards, or any other tool, or simply via prayer, meditation, psychics or synchronicity paths. So the idea or awareness or consciousness in one's head at the time of a tarot reading is divination (universal awareness), so one's reality is changed.

Anyway, my take on it.

The other day I knocked over a full deck of Tarot cards, so after picking them all up, I decided to choose one for myself and it was the seven of coins. Guess what? It didn't tell me anything that I already didn't know about myself and my path. As someone else posted....know thyself.

The video I posted below is an excellent explanation of magick (divination via tarot cards, etc.) and quantum mechanics of consciousness and the physical world by parapsychological scientists and totally worth an hour of your time. Enjoy.

a reply to: InTheLight

Tarot Cards is just like any other divination magic. The gist of it is, in 14-15 century they started to see tarot card become popular. It had it's start as a card game. Then some douche bag wrote some book trying to link ancient Egyptian symbolism to the cards basically trying to give it some mystical biased. This story really reminds me of the ouji board and Parker brothers.
Learn about pseudo-magic and pseudo-history. Don't believe every folklore or legend on different sources. Then ultimately be the judge of whether this is un-natural or natural.

THE HISTORY OF TAROT CARDS
slate.com...

originally posted by: Nemox42
a reply to: InTheLight

Tarot Cards is just like any other divination magic. The gist of it is, in 14-15 century they started to see tarot card become popular. It had it's start as a card game. Then some douche bag wrote some book trying to link ancient Egyptian symbolism to the cards basically trying to give it some mystical biased. This story really reminds me of the ouji board and Parker brothers.
Learn about pseudo-magic and pseudo-history. Don't believe every folklore or legend on different sources. Then ultimately be the judge of whether this is un-natural or natural.

THE HISTORY OF TAROT CARDS
slate.com...

It really is not the tool being used to judge whether or not, rather it is the experiencers' of magick or syncronicity or whatever you want to call it that one makes a judgement.

I read a great deal about the history of the Tarot, folklore, shamanism, voodoo, etc. Isn't is odd that the Tarot has come this far and is still in use today, as is shamanism and witchcraft...and others?

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Nemox42
a reply to: InTheLight

Tarot Cards is just like any other divination magic. The gist of it is, in 14-15 century they started to see tarot card become popular. It had it's start as a card game. Then some douche bag wrote some book trying to link ancient Egyptian symbolism to the cards basically trying to give it some mystical biased. This story really reminds me of the ouji board and Parker brothers.
Learn about pseudo-magic and pseudo-history. Don't believe every folklore or legend on different sources. Then ultimately be the judge of whether this is un-natural or natural.

THE HISTORY OF TAROT CARDS
slate.com...

It really is not the tool being used to judge whether or not, rather it is the experiencers' of magick or syncronicity or whatever you want to call it that one makes a judgement.

I read a great deal about the history of the Tarot, folklore, shamanism, voodoo, etc. Isn't is odd that the Tarot has come this far and is still in use today, as is shamanism and witchcraft...and others?

Read the article I linked bro. The tarot card was a popular game played by aristocrats. It evolved into a mystical thingy because some idiot thought he could write a book saying these symbols connect with the tarot card. What if i said monopoly was a divination piece. And that the boot meant something or the car or laying in jail meant I be in jail. You get what I mean? It was a game and evolved into a divination game because its popularity of spiritualism. Over the course of history, we have had a few waves of spiritualism. Even today we have one, it's called ghost hunters or taps. ROFL. But they you may never know, the detail might really be in the "cards". Deny all ignorance. The truth will set you free.

originally posted by: Nemox42

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Nemox42
a reply to: InTheLight

Tarot Cards is just like any other divination magic. The gist of it is, in 14-15 century they started to see tarot card become popular. It had it's start as a card game. Then some douche bag wrote some book trying to link ancient Egyptian symbolism to the cards basically trying to give it some mystical biased. This story really reminds me of the ouji board and Parker brothers.
Learn about pseudo-magic and pseudo-history. Don't believe every folklore or legend on different sources. Then ultimately be the judge of whether this is un-natural or natural.

THE HISTORY OF TAROT CARDS
slate.com...

It really is not the tool being used to judge whether or not, rather it is the experiencers' of magick or syncronicity or whatever you want to call it that one makes a judgement.

I read a great deal about the history of the Tarot, folklore, shamanism, voodoo, etc. Isn't is odd that the Tarot has come this far and is still in use today, as is shamanism and witchcraft...and others?

Read the article I linked bro. The tarot card was a popular game played by aristocrats. It evolved into a mystical thingy because some idiot thought he could write a book saying these symbols connect with the tarot card. What if i said monopoly was a divination piece. And that the boot meant something or the car or laying in jail meant I be in jail. You get what I mean? It was a game and evolved into a divination game because its popularity of spiritualism. Over the course of history, we have had a few waves of spiritualism. Even today we have one, it's called ghost hunters or taps. ROFL. But they you may never know, the detail might really be in the "cards". Deny all ignorance. The truth will set you free.

As I said, I read the history of the Tarot, but what I am saying is the Tarot is a tool by which divination can manifest. Denial of others' realities or truths is what you are doing. If you have never had any divination or psychic experiences then just say so, don't tell others' your truth is all there is.

originally posted by: Nemox42
Google the james randi challenge.

Thing about the James Randi challenge is he is the only judge, he won't accept data from scientific studies done by people like Rupert Sheldrake, and he doesn't have the money anyway. He requires that you basically pull off a real magic stunt in front of a crowd, because it's an easy bet and that's what he understands "psychic" power to be. He's not interested in going into the research done by folks like the CIA and US Army that showed a consistent statistical variation in the data that showed something was going on, even if nobody understands what it is. He doesn't care about subtlety, only showbiz.

Besides, if you could tell what cards were coming up in a deck why would you show it to him or the rest or the world? What would be in it for you? Money? He doesn't have it. But if you kept your ability a secret, you could do way better in Las Vegas.

a reply to: Blue Shift
The million dollar prize was donated to the JRef foundation by Jeff Adams, so it wasn't Randi's money, he didn't have to have it personally, it was JRef's money.

Randi stepped down in 2015 and then the million dollar prize was no longer available, but now JRef is giving away money in the form of grants to people who merit them based on the JRef principles.

I doubt seriously a psychic could make much in Vegas before getting blacklisted. They let some people win some money, but if someone started winning like a psychic would, they would be monitored, probably to look for cheating and if they couldn't find that they would be asked to stop playing anyway for winning too much...they don't really need much of a reason to ban you in Vegas, they did that with some card counters, if you saw the movie "21" based on a true story.

However New Jersey laws don't allow casinos to ban people for winning, psychic powers or otherwise, so that would be the place to go if you were a psychic, but I never heard of any psychics winning there, in fact the lack of such is cited as at least a suggestion that maybe psychic abilities aren't so great if they can't even use them to win money in New Jersey casinos.

Just because there are statistical anomalies in research data doesn't mean something is going on. Statistical anomalies are part of what happens in statistics, and those happen all the time in things like LHC data, which is one reason they require five sigma confidence to confirm a discovery. Other LHC anomalies that never met the five sigma were absolutely nothing but statistical anomalies, which happen.

One gambling example I read about happens once in a while at the roulette tables, where a table might get 20, 21, or 22 reds (or blacks) in a row, which is statistically very unlikely, so people start freaking out. But if you have enough roulette wheels running 24 hours a day in enough casinos, even statistically improbable events like that become probable due to the repetition of so many wheels running so long at so many casinos. Some people look at that and think something is going on when it's really to be expected as rarely as it occurs.

originally posted by: InTheLight
The video I posted below is an excellent explanation of magick (divination via tarot cards, etc.) and quantum mechanics of consciousness and the physical world by parapsychological scientists and totally worth an hour of your time. Enjoy.

Dean Radin has all kinds of credibility issues, so I don't find him very convincing of anything. This article talks about his failure to correctly account for the "file drawer" effect in his research:

The Conscious Universe: The Scientific Truth of Psychic Phenomena by Dean Radin - reviewed for Nature by I.J. Good

Because the number of individual guesses is so large, this P value appreciably SUPPORTS the null hypothesis (no ESP). This is because a Bayes factor (the factor by which the odds of a hypothesis are multiplied in light of the observations), corresponding to a fixed P value, is roughly proportional to 1/ sqrt (N), where N is the sample size. So Radin's method for evaluating the file-drawer effect, whatever that method may be, must be misguided. This conclusion largely undermines Radin's meta-analysis which is central to his case for ESP.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
However New Jersey laws don't allow casinos to ban people for winning, psychic powers or otherwise, so that would be the place to go if you were a psychic, but I never heard of any psychics winning there, in fact the lack of such is cited as at least a suggestion that maybe psychic abilities aren't so great if they can't even use them to win money in New Jersey casinos.

I'm sure New Jersey casinos have more direct ways of discouraging people they feel are winning too much. Anyway, I won't defend the kind of Hollywood style ESP you're talking about here. I doubt that such a strong example of that exists, except in such rare cases that it couldn't be accounted for by statistics. Real outlier stuff. And those people would learn very quickly to keep it on the down low rather than be exploited in bad ways.

I'm talking more about how consciousness interacts with reality, and how symbols like those in the Tarot can influence that. So it's not so much about guessing dice throws, it's more about how framing an experience makes a difference in the way the dice game plays out for the individual. And beyond that, how the flow of events can be "realigned," for lack of a better word, according to the way the Tarot is interpreted. It's subtle, because it involves a person's perceptions, which is very difficult to statistically quantify.

Because what we're talking about here is not electromagnetic (probably), we don't have good ways to measure it or even talk about it without dragging in a lot of Theosophist mumbo-jumbo. Which is a shame. Because I think there is some value to the concepts of coincidence and synchronicity when it comes to gaining some understanding of the structure and function of our little animal existence. So, for me, the Tarot "works," but not in the hard science, cause and effect way our society values so much.

And it's fun and hopefully enlightening. Those are pretty good reasons right there not to simply dismiss it as a foolish, unscientific scam.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
Because what we're talking about here is not electromagnetic (probably), we don't have good ways to measure it or even talk about it without dragging in a lot of Theosophist mumbo-jumbo.

There are ways to at least rule out things like the forer effect, and most people don't even go that far in their thinking process, or maybe aren't even aware of the Forer effect:

Forer effect

Barry Beyerstein suggests the following test to determine whether the apparent validity of the pseudosciences mentioned above might not be due to the Forer effect, confirmation bias, or other psychological factors. (Note: the proposed test also uses subjective or personal validation and is not intended to test the accuracy of any personality assessment tool, but rather is intended to counteract the tendency to self-deception about such matters.)

…a proper test would first have readings done for a large number of clients and then remove the names from the profiles (coding them so they could later be matched to their rightful owners). After all clients had read all of the anonymous personality sketches, each would be asked to pick the one that described him or her best. If the reader has actually included enough uniquely pertinent material, members of the group, on average, should be able to exceed chance in choosing their own from the pile.

Beyerstein notes that "no occult or pseudoscientific character reading method…has successfully passed such a test."

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Nemox42
Google the james randi challenge.

Thing about the James Randi challenge is he is the only judge, he won't accept data from scientific studies done by people like Rupert Sheldrake, and he doesn't have the money anyway. He requires that you basically pull off a real magic stunt in front of a crowd, because it's an easy bet and that's what he understands "psychic" power to be. He's not interested in going into the research done by folks like the CIA and US Army that showed a consistent statistical variation in the data that showed something was going on, even if nobody understands what it is. He doesn't care about subtlety, only showbiz.

Besides, if you could tell what cards were coming up in a deck why would you show it to him or the rest or the world? What would be in it for you? Money? He doesn't have it. But if you kept your ability a secret, you could do way better in Las Vegas.

James Randi challenge IS NOT the only judge. He's retired. It's a foundation now. Also why the hell would he accept scientific studies by other people, if he can't reproduce it himself. That's what science is, someone comes up with a theory and they test it in controlled conditions in many labs all over the world. And the result should be the same or similar. That's how science works. If i made a drug to cure all kinds of cancer, and other scientist can't reproduce the same or similar results base on my research then it just a theory. Also you said your psychic. Was your experience like this?




Also if you kept up with the Randi challenge. IT'S HELD IN VEGAS. So why don't you take your psychic abilities and clean the damn casinos? psychics at least the famous ones ARE FRAUDS. The lesser known ones who don't TAKE MONEY for psychic readings, I tend to say maybe they are maybe not. And yes DENY ALL IGNORANCE.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Nemox42
Google the james randi challenge.

Thing about the James Randi challenge is he is the only judge, he won't accept data from scientific studies done by people like Rupert Sheldrake, and he doesn't have the money anyway. He requires that you basically pull off a real magic stunt in front of a crowd, because it's an easy bet and that's what he understands "psychic" power to be. He's not interested in going into the research done by folks like the CIA and US Army that showed a consistent statistical variation in the data that showed something was going on, even if nobody understands what it is. He doesn't care about subtlety, only showbiz.

Besides, if you could tell what cards were coming up in a deck why would you show it to him or the rest or the world? What would be in it for you? Money? He doesn't have it. But if you kept your ability a secret, you could do way better in Las Vegas.

Did you actually mention "the men that stare at goats" project. They trash that military project. Because it didn't produce any results. There aren't no super-men. Just normal humans. Remote viewing Russian bases. come on man. full of BS. You sound like a conspiracy fan boy. You say you read up on stuff. You know how embarrassing that project was for the military. You know the history of divination, sure didn't come from tarot cards. DENY ALL IGNORANCE.

Let's try a test. I did a tarot reading to see who has the best chance of becoming or staying President of the U.S. For Trump the 7 of cups emerged, for Biden the 6 of cups emerged, and for Sanders the Chariot emerged. One might think that Sanders would be the one to win, but the Chariot comes with the impetus that he must work very hard and not give up. Is Sanders up to it? This reading is for the present state of affairs so I may do another tarot card pick closer to the actual voting time.

originally posted by: Nemox42
Also if you kept up with the Randi challenge. IT'S HELD IN VEGAS. So why don't you take your psychic abilities and clean the damn casinos? psychics at least the famous ones ARE FRAUDS. The lesser known ones who don't TAKE MONEY for psychic readings, I tend to say maybe they are maybe not. And yes DENY ALL IGNORANCE.

Of course it's held in Las Vegas. Which is what I'm saying about it being all showbiz. Nobody wants to take a look at the real work. It's a lot easier to play the superior skeptic rather than try to see what's actually going on, or at least look at it from an unbiased perspective.

Are there rip-offs? It's mostly harmless entertainment. People lose a lot more money in casinos, with real estate scams, or just ordinary medical billing than from psychics. Why so vehement? Are you disappointed that flashy displays of clairvoyance don't really happen. That doesn't mean there isn't something worth investigating here. You say "deny all ignorance," but don't forget the ignorance of blind adherence to what you perceive as authority.

Contemplate this, and see what you come up with. But also be aware of your surroundings in the next couple of days, because this will show up again:

originally posted by: InTheLight
Let's try a test. I did a tarot reading to see who has the best chance of becoming or staying President of the U.S. For Trump the 7 of cups emerged, for Biden the 6 of cups emerged, and for Sanders the Chariot emerged. One might think that Sanders would be the one to win, but the Chariot comes with the impetus that he must work very hard and not give up. Is Sanders up to it? This reading is for the present state of affairs so I may do another tarot card pick closer to the actual voting time.

Yeah, Biden doesn't look like a contender with the six of cups. His heart really isn't in it, and a woman in his life (wife, possibly) might be an important factor. The seven of the Chariot versus seven of cups, huh? The Sanders campaign being driven by minorities and women, but then Trump with all of the illusion and fantasy. At this point, looks like Trump has it.

But the wind can change with these larger issues. I've always felt that because consciousness is involved, a Tarot reading has a bigger impact on individuals than global events.