Trump working with his favorite daughter signs EO to expand apprenticeship programs

originally posted by: Irishhaf
You really do not know... you are confusing manual labor with trade jobs.. There is a certain degree of physical labor with trade skills but not all of them require you to dig ditches for a living or carry heavy loads for long hours of the day.

What's the difference? When a plumber comes by and fixes the pipes I see them doing a bunch of manual labor. When the pipes outside need replaced I see them digging a ditch to get to them.

100k huh... not in a lot of corners of America will you start out at 100k in a programming or IT job, Heck the ONLY place I know for certain you can start there is if you get a federal job and have experience can you begin around 100k a year.

CS yes, IT no. I live in a town with a median wage of 15k. Full time minimum wage is actually higher than our median. Those wages are most common in places like San Francisco and NYC where the cost of living is higher, but aren't the only place those wages are paid. Many pay that all over the country, just to keep up with the big cities.

originally posted by: darepairman
a reply to: Aazadan

Don't call me a lier son.

That's precisely what you're doing by encouraging people to get into trades though.
Plumber - $50,620
Electrician - $58,496
Carpenter - $45,000
Mason - $49,650
Welder - $37,715

Should I continue?

On that type of wage, you cannot even buy a house comfortably. Not to say people don't, but it's a poor financial decision to do so.

Again, if people want to do these jobs, good for them. Lets not pretend that those are fantastic wages though, all of them with the exception of Electrician (which is just barely over) are under the median income in the US. Careers should not put you in the bottom 50%.

a reply to: Aazadan


Well once again, I am out, Its not worth it talking to someone like you. You are such an arrogant arsehole. I hope you enjoyed that granted education you recieved, I am sure plenty of hard working American tax dollars went towards it, you know from lying sub humans like myself. the top salary you supplied as your evidence, I will have beat by about 30K this year as I have for the last few years. Being called a lier really pisses me off. All I am saying is there are other options out there other than collage. Calling someone a lier will get you horizontal where I come from bub, but I am sure you are also a 6' 5" 250lb animal.
Most of the guys in my department own a house, raise a family and live pretty well, that was my whole point.

a reply to: Aazadan

Like any job longer you are in trade skills, the higher up the ladder you go... experienced plumbers will have an apprentice do the heavy lifting..

Or Carpenters...

Or Masons..

Or if you go into the manufacturing area there is little in the way of manual labor with many of those jobs...

Electricians do not do a lot of manual labor either..

I would love some references to a business that will pay someone with zero actual experience 100k a year.

Once I complete my Masters in IT cyber security I can walk into a 6 figure salary.. but a regular programmer... I do not see it considering the glut of programmers available.

originally posted by: darepairman
Well once again, I am out, Its not worth it talking to someone like you. You are such an arrogant arsehole. I hope you enjoyed that granted education you recieved, I am sure plenty of hard working American tax dollars went towards it, you know from lying sub humans like myself. the top salary you supplied as your evidence, I will have beat by about 30K this year as I have for the last few years. Being called a lier really pisses me off. All I am saying is there are other options out there other than collage. Calling someone a lier will get you horizontal where I come from bub, but I am sure you are also a 6' 5" 250lb animal.
Most of the guys in my department own a house, raise a family and live pretty well, that was my whole point.

I'm not arrogant at all, though I am aware my writing style often has me come across as such. Sorry, you'll have to deal with it. What comes across is after I generally proofread and reword things such that they sound better. I am neither a great orator or author.

And yes, I do enjoy my education, apparently unlike some people I actually value it, rather than throw away the opportunity by drinking, fighting, and getting kicked out of school.

My evidence said nothing of top salaries, top salaries are unlimited, though your chances of reaching various levels does change by sector. That's why I looked at averages, you'll clear an average by 30k and that's great for you, but is that still good? I'm getting more than that on literally my very first job in my life. As a starting wage, and I'm still in school. Granted, it's 5 degrees, 14 years, 400 credit hours, and I'm at a well paying company, but I think it makes the point. If you want to be wealthy, or even middle class... trades are not where you want to be. It can be interesting work for some, but it's not well paying.

Yes, options exist other than college, but college is hands down the best way to better your position in life. If you want to work with your hands, then become a mechanical engineer, don't become a mechanic. If you like electricity, then start wiring circuit boards rather than houses. If you want to build houses, become a materials engineer and revolutionize 3d printing.

originally posted by: IrishhafLike any job longer you are in trade skills, the higher up the ladder you go... experienced plumbers will have an apprentice do the heavy lifting..

This relies on the employment structure being a continually expanding pyramid though. Infinite growth is not possible in employment, and as productivity rises, it's going to get top heavy. We're already seeing that in the economy in general, and as the trades advocates pointed out, there's a huge shortage of journeymen coming up. Trades are a situation where we will soon have more chiefs than indians, and that means you're going to be doing those menial jobs forever.

Or if you go into the manufacturing area there is little in the way of manual labor with many of those jobs...

I'm aware. I work in a factory. Every now and then I walk the factory floor, I see exactly how they're building the products. Most importantly though, what I see is a bunch of 50+ year olds working an assembly line on the floor, and no younger generation ever coming in to replace them. I would say 90% of our factory workers have gone full grey and at least 75% will be retiring within the next decade. The jobs are being replaced, humans exist in this work only to feed components from one machine to the next. Once there's machines to do that, the manual labor portion of manufacturing will be gone.

I would love some references to a business that will pay someone with zero actual experience 100k a year.

I'll sleep on it, maybe I'll PM you the company I work for in the morning. If it makes it more believable for you though, here's what happened. Some former professors of mine that I keep in contact with were wanting to start up a new type of project in the company. They asked me to make them a prototype of the project, which I did (for free). It was a big success, and from there they hired me on at a nice wage.