Trump working with his favorite daughter signs EO to expand apprenticeship programs

originally posted by: RomeByFire
I have absolutely no idea how this statement could possibly be construed as a negative:

Today too many young people are focused on university and college, specifically on 4 year programs.

Too many young people are focused on higher education? And this is a bad thing?

Education makes it harder to be a cog in a machine.

"I love the uneducated."

originally posted by: RomeByFire
I have absolutely no idea how this statement could possibly be construed as a negative:

Today too many young people are focused on university and college, specifically on 4 year programs.

Too many young people are focused on higher education? And this is a bad thing?

As someone who has been to university, yep.

Awful lot of people who go on useless degrees with all sorts of dreams about the future that are totally shattered when they step out the doors into the real world.

So were mine but that came down to other reasons.

I ended up doing an apprenticeship after university (plus being the only actual employment I could find, i've done more than one in fact) and i'm all the better for it.

originally posted by: Irishhaf

originally posted by: RomeByFire
I have absolutely no idea how this statement could possibly be construed as a negative:

Today too many young people are focused on university and college, specifically on 4 year programs.

Too many young people are focused on higher education? And this is a bad thing?

Some people go into massive debt when they are not well suited for a college classroom, a trade skill is a good option for people who are better at working with their hands, than sitting in a classroom regurgitating whatever teacher tells them is important.

Very very happy to read about a push for alternative career paths, rather than 4 yrs to sit in acubicle and hate your options.

So true.

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: RomeByFire
I have absolutely no idea how this statement could possibly be construed as a negative:

Today too many young people are focused on university and college, specifically on 4 year programs.

Too many young people are focused on higher education? And this is a bad thing?

Education makes it harder to be a cog in a machine.

"I love the uneducated."

Perfect example, thank you.



It's bad because Trump. Derp.

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: RomeByFire
I have absolutely no idea how this statement could possibly be construed as a negative:

Today too many young people are focused on university and college, specifically on 4 year programs.

Too many young people are focused on higher education? And this is a bad thing?

Education makes it harder to be a cog in a machine.

"I love the uneducated."

Perfect example, thank you.

It's bad because Trump. Derp.

Its not bad because of Trump, it's bad because it's painting education as a negative.

Whether its a coincidence that Trump loves the uneducated is up to you.

a reply to: underwerks

Seriously? Apprenticeships are amazing opportunities for people who are hands on.

Not sitting in a classroom memorizing sh!t that means nothing until you actually do it but actually doing it in the first place. I believe that you are not a cucumber and you already know this.

So yes, because Trump.

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
a reply to: underwerks

Seriously? Apprenticeships are amazing opportunities for people who are hands on.

Not sitting in a classroom memorizing sh!t that means nothing until you actually do it but actually doing it in the first place. I believe that you are not a cucumber and you already know this.

So yes, because Trump.

They can be. But education isn't just about learning to work. It's about the knowledge. Understanding history so you can learn why everything is the way it is today.

There's nothing wrong with doing an apprenticeship if you like what you're doing and it makes you happy. But that doesn't work for everyone. I'd have offed myself years ago if I had to stay where I grew up doing some kind of tradecraft instead of going out in the world and learning what's out there.

My issue with things like the OP is that it seems there's a push to turn people against higher education coming from the Trump camp. Society is sick from not enough education, not the other way around.

There is nothing wrong with either apprenticeships or college degrees. They are just different paths to employment.

IF his EO is effective in opening up more apprenticeships I will count that as a plus for the administration.

a reply to: allsee4eye

Why would free college cost too much? Colleges already blatantly overprice books and tuition, the only reason it would be too expensive is because the prices have been gouged to start with.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: allsee4eye

Why would free college cost too much? Colleges already blatantly overprice books and tuition, the only reason it would be too expensive is because the prices have been gouged to start with.

Because college graduates earn up to 1 million dollars more that high school grads....or at least they used to.

So you expect those destined to make that million, or so, less should subsidize those who will make the extra meg?

I don't think so. LOL

a reply to: allsee4eye

Why should we focus on apprenticeships? Why should any business pay to train someone? The point of being an employee is that you're already an expert on the subject (or you fooled the company into thinking you are). Paying to train someone is just adding liability to the company.

originally posted by: Fools
I think this is an idea that is WAY past due. One of the reasons millenials are so unhappy is that they were almost all taught that college was the only and best option. Teaching a young man an actual skill that he is proud of is probably one of the number one ways to decrease criminal activity.

You can't be proud of a college education?

originally posted by: Fools
1. It lowers the threshold in higher education. The more students you have the more there is a natural pull to lower expectations.

If an apprenticeship teaches properly, you end up with someone equally well trained in the end. Therefore expectations remain equally low.

2. The higher the student population in universities the more it becomes a diploma factory acting more like a business than an educational facility.

Not true. The more people in a class, the more leeway a school has to fail the ones who don't perform. You need a certain number of students to run a class, or justify a professors employment. More students gives the school more leverage. When you're desperate for numbers, you can never fail someone.

3. Most young men are not geared to this sort of learning. Most young men are visual learners. As such, an actual trade is better for them in many ways.

This sounds like the sort of BS people who think themselves incapable of learning spout.

originally posted by: JAY1980Well when the degree has the same economic worth as the paper it's printed on it is a negative.
We already have a large portion of degree holders out there not working in their field of study. How is giving more people degrees going to solve this problem?

How is an apprenticeship going to solve that problem? There's still no guarantee of a job on the other end, but now you've been pigeonholed into one specific (usually low paying) job.

originally posted by: BoadiceaIf I had my druthers, every high school student would learn and be proficient in at least one marketable skill upon graduation.

Impossible. 5 hours per week of learning time, over two years is 350 hours of instruction. That's equal to one college intro course worth of study. It takes many years of full time study to be competent in something.

originally posted by: Edumakated
There is nothing wrong with college. Heck, I have a graduate degree. However, it isn't for everyone. More importantly, these kids shouldn't be going into massive debt either to get degrees that are fairly worthless in the real world.

I know of a gal who is just now getting her first job. She makes $61k/yr. Her student loan balance is $325,000! WTF? She couldn't afford to pay that if it were amortized over 30 years like a mortgage. She will never be able to pay that money back.

Face it, a lot of students, particularly those in areas with poor public school systems are simply not cut out or ready for college. However, if they could get a real job/apprenticeship learning an actual skill, they cold be making good money by the time they are 20, 21 years old. Far more than they'd make going to some third tier college majoring in Art History.

Agreed, people shouldn't go that far into debt for an education. Maybe we should look into funding colleges the way we used to so that tuition remained low.

61k/year isn't bad for a first job in most areas, though if I remember correctly you're in NYC and it's pretty bad there. Some people do better though, I'm in an internship right now and getting $60/hour, already been extended a full time offer post graduation for $175k (with some negotiation to do still), and zero college debt, if I want to stick with the company and move elsewhere such as to a big city, CoL adjustments could bump that to 250k. I won't have a Masters either. I'll finish with 2 Bachelors and 3 Associates.

We could do a lot to curb the problem if we simply encouraged people to focus on less expensive schools. Tuition is something of a problem, but it's really your cost of living while studying that gets you and money goes a lot further in some areas of the country than others.

The problem with apprenticeships, besides the economic risk to employers, is that they don't really teach you how to do a variety of jobs. They pigeonhole you into one task and severely limit your job prospects.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Wide-Eyes

Regulation isn't the answer, a strong workforce with a good position for negotiation is the answer. If more people have better jobs then the employers have to be willing to sacrifice more to acquire the talent they want.

Apprenticeships don't lend themseles to good negotiating power. Degrees that give people options to work elsewhere do.

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
a reply to: underwerks

Seriously? Apprenticeships are amazing opportunities for people who are hands on.

Not sitting in a classroom memorizing sh!t that means nothing until you actually do it but actually doing it in the first place. I believe that you are not a cucumber and you already know this.

So yes, because Trump.

They can be. But education isn't just about learning to work. It's about the knowledge. Understanding history so you can learn why everything is the way it is today.

There's nothing wrong with doing an apprenticeship if you like what you're doing and it makes you happy. But that doesn't work for everyone. I'd have offed myself years ago if I had to stay where I grew up doing some kind of tradecraft instead of going out in the world and learning what's out there.

My issue with things like the OP is that it seems there's a push to turn people against higher education coming from the Trump camp. Society is sick from not enough education, not the other way around.

That is totally not what is going on here. One member here said that higher education is not for everybody and they were correct. Trump never said people shouldn't go to college.

You've just taken one members opinion and used it to back up your twisted argument about apprenticeships.

Nothing wrong with Apprenticeships Electrcian here
Making 140K to 150K a year gross 6 week vacation
Two week in two week off so only working haft the year
It a fly -in DeBeers Diamond mine

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
a reply to: strongfp

I know what you're saying and it's also an easy opportunity for employers to take advantage of people for cheap labour.

However, as long as it's properly regulated and constantly worked on to get the best possible outcome for the employer and the employee then it can be a very good thing.

I genuinely believe that Trump wants to get young people jobs. Anyone who thinks this is a bad initiative just hates Trump.

If President Trump gave every poor person in the United States a million dollars, they would still find a way to twist it as a bad thing because Trump...

He always has been the type to put people to work and find new talent.

But the incentive for employers has always been there, and in most places in the states the incentive for getting your journeyman certification is well worth the time.
Here in Canada we have the Red Seal program, it's basically the same as getting a university science degree, complete it, and you're guaranteed 60k+ a year job in a decent place. And is recognized ALL over Canada as equal and even some places around the world.
On top of that most states and in Canada the school is PAID for and each year you complete the government literally hands you money, I got 1200 dollars for completing my first year, and my employer paid for seat in class.

The issue is people aren't willing to do these jobs, or attempt them and it's hard work. The other issue is employers know this and only select a handful of people, or are extremely wary of who they want to support because of the high turn over. Also, the benefits of having an apprentice for an employer is better for them than the apprentice themselves in most cases.
Not sure what else Trump can do to make it better.