Monkeys want equal pay too

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An interesting reaction from the primates – pretty close to human behavior.



This is a 2 1/2 minute clip of experiments done with monkeys to determine their reactions to unequal compensation for doing the exact same type of "work."



You just got to watch it. . . It's hilarious.

youtu.be...

a reply to: 727Sky

That's really interesting. What is striking is that the one getting the grape doesn't mind at all. The have's and the have nots.

I wonder how long it took for the first one to stop giving the lab assistant rocks?

Great OP, thanks.

Sure..

Let us just pay everyone $5/hr no matter what job you do, no matter how long you've been there, no matter your education level.

Everyone gets $5/hr. No more raises, no more bonuses. A flat $5/hr across the board, for everyone. Oligarchs and rich people, everyone gets financial reset, and we all get $5/hr.

Then there won't be any complaints about wage gaps, inequality, etc.

Sounds great, then we can finally put this whole silly thing of inequality to bed.

originally posted by: Cygnis
Sure..

Let us just pay everyone $5/hr no matter what job you do, no matter how long you've been there, no matter your education level.

Everyone gets $5/hr. No more raises, no more bonuses. A flat $5/hr across the board, for everyone. Oligarchs and rich people, everyone gets financial reset, and we all get $5/hr.

Then there won't be any complaints about wage gaps, inequality, etc.

Sounds great, then we can finally put this whole silly thing of inequality to bed.

While I understand your point.. These monkeys had the same back ground and were both tasked to do the exact same job..

Even monkeys recognize when they are getting screwed.

I've seen this one before. Would have been pretty funny if out of all the monkeys in the world, the one they tried to screw actually preferred cucumber to grape.

originally posted by: 727Sky

originally posted by: Cygnis
Sure..

Let us just pay everyone $5/hr no matter what job you do, no matter how long you've been there, no matter your education level.

Everyone gets $5/hr. No more raises, no more bonuses. A flat $5/hr across the board, for everyone. Oligarchs and rich people, everyone gets financial reset, and we all get $5/hr.

Then there won't be any complaints about wage gaps, inequality, etc.

Sounds great, then we can finally put this whole silly thing of inequality to bed.

While I understand your point.. These monkeys had the same back ground and were both tasked to do the exact same job..

Even monkeys recognize when they are getting screwed.

Neat point too, except when you have someone that has trained to do a job getting paid "x" amount then a fast food worker wanting the same for doing literally nothing it is sad.

And please don't tell me fast food jobs require training....if you can't figure that job out then you're doomed to welfare anyways.

a reply to: 727Sky

This pathetic experiment is exactly why people question the new 'science' or what passes for science. Using food, immediate rewards and monkeys makes this entire experiment ludicrous.

If someone has a cheeseburger and I don't...I want one...it has nothing to do with compensation or equality. I just like cheeseburgers.

Despite undergoing 35 million years of evolution independent of us, the monkeys’ related skills appear to be on par with those of chimpanzees and 3-year-old children. Monkeys will wheel and deal for peanuts — literally.

LINK

I'm not sure you can first compare the emotional reactions of Capuchin's to those of adult humans of working age and second the emotional reactions of what amounts to a 3 year old to the reactions of an adult.

The inequality argument is far more complex than this example, but still very interesting. In most cases involving we humans in the workforce, the pay differences are there for very rational reasons. More education, more experience or being better at the job or more motivated and productive. Most people of working age and having the intelligence of an adult human understand the why.

Equal pay no matter what would lead to a lazy, uninspired workforce to say the least. We do best with goals to attain and reason to get out of bed in the morning. It's how we are.

The laborer who want's pay on par with a skilled worker is probably too lazy to learn a skill and just whining for attention.

a reply to: Blaine91555

I also question that the same treat is analogous to equal pay too.

In order for the relationship to be established, they would have to try to give both monkeys cucumber for the job after having established grapes as the treat for it and have both monkeys refuse because grapes are clearly what they get paid.

My reasoning for this is that the monkeys are said to be familiar with one another socially, so the refusal of one to take a cucumber when it sees the other getting a grape could have a more complicated social context related to group hierarchy than a simplistic anthropomorphic reason related to human pay relationships.

a reply to: Blaine91555

I don't think it's suggesting equal pay across the board for everyone. Tests like this are very limited in what they are testing.

It's just showing that primates have the intelligence to know when they are being treated unfairly to another. It shows they understand the meaning of value and reward.

It also shows they don't like it when someone rips them off or treats them as less than others for no reason.

If one does the same task as another one but they get grapes and the first one gets veggies they know that it's not fair and get pissed about that.

But I wouldn't go too much more than that with where you apply it.

a reply to: 727Sky

I made a thread on this subject a while ago www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: ketsuko

Good point

It's likely more analogous to the interaction between siblings than unequal pay.

Id really think that dogs were much more sensitive to favoritism and inequality. Theyre muuuch more than just mans best friend.. they are sensitive antennas to us. Lord knows if youve ever trained dogs you know that they are a hell of a lot more intuitive and sensitive than science has given them credit for.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
The laborer who want's pay on par with a skilled worker is probably too lazy to learn a skill and just whining for attention.

Depends on what you know ... and what you really know ... and what you don't know jack-shizen about. I grew up working on a farm. I can tell you just about everything there is to know about farming ... but I probably couldn't teach you.

I moved up to building houses. Never got to the Journeyman level even, because building sailboats paid a lot more faster. What I can tell you is that people buying houses are getting ripped off in an unbelievable way. And you have to pay taxes continually on houses and farms. LOL

Building boats was a miserable lot in life so I wound up enlisting in the Army. I should have become an officer, but I wanted nothing to do with that level of responsibility, the competitiveness, nor the lack of job security over time. (a very wise move on my part considering how things panned out). At my age, I can only say I am happy to Not be doing any of those jobs today, and I have a minor pension and a permanent health plan for paying-in to the system early on.

I've seen skilled 'labor'. I've seen people who put their educations to purpose. I've had both types working for me. What I've come to realize is that it all boils down to individual perspective. If you're happy with who you are ... and more importantly, earning enough in your employment endeavors ... it doesn't really matter what the other guy's getting. None of us take it with us when we go ... and nothing lasts more than a couple of generations.

-Cheers

a reply to: Snarl

I also grew up around farmers and ranchers. Some got wealthy, others did not even though they had the exact same opportunities. Most sadly sold the land, became instantly wealthy and did not pass it on, but the reasons for that are another topic and not for this forum.

For me I started with a degree, ended up working as a roughneck on oil rigs and took dangerous jobs surrounding mining and oil because they paid far better than what the degree would net me. There was always a solid reason for the higher pay.

In the end, I discovered the freedom of self employment and have been self sufficient for the last almost thirty years, relying on only myself. Never got rich, but had a wealth of freedom to do as I wished.

The equal pay argument I hear most often is so simplistic as to be laughable.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Snarl
The equal pay argument I hear most often is so simplistic as to be laughable.

You took on hardship and risk to earn better money. I gave up ever having an established hearth and home. Hard to put a fair price on such things ... and it's good that we both had the ability to walk away from BS.

The monkeys were caged.

-Cheers

well infighting over who had it better ( kind reminds me of the video btw .
I have seen it and the exparment was much much more extensive then just that so much so the monkeys darn near have every social thing we do and expect it to be abide by and if another monkey goes to far (( umm left shell we say even in the wild they are kicked out of the group and sometimes even killed in the case of chimps .
I have watched many of these videos and the results are all the same wild monkey or caged .
seams humans have the exact same reactions . But one can just say well i am so much more important and worth so much more then you .
( want to see how fast your toon would change when no one picking the crops and your hungry .)
Maybe pay should be based more on the value of the work instead of precived value .
A paper pusher is so important getting 25 $ a hour at a lawyers office .
wile the guy picking your food should have starvation wages humm .
Paper pusher quite you wont care dude picking your food quits all of a sudden it matters so tell me MR i went to collage . Which is more important the President or the people who grow and pick and ship and sell your food to you ?
The president quiets we maybe just get a few days of no killing as wars wate .
The food picker quits you starve fast
I know I know but your worth so much more .
Like i said when monkeys go to far left the others get tired of it and all Hades brakes louse .

a reply to: midnightstar

I see this argument a lot.

But this actually happened where my husband works. You see, he's one of those white collar paper pushers you have to much contempt for. He works at a biopharma production facility where most of the hands-on labor is done by a union under contract. The union workers mostly have high school degrees and they work the production under carefully written outlines (directions), written and maintained by the white collar, degreed paper pushers whose job it is to understand why and how everything works and all the regulations for everything that must be followed and observed.

Seems the union all walked off the job once because they felt their new contract wasn't fair enough.

During that week, all the white collar paper pushers had to manage not only their jobs, but the production jobs too. And they outperformed. Just because the white collar desk jockers don't do it doesn't mean they don't know what it is or how to do it or even haven't done it in the past.

a reply to: midnightstar

Most paper pushers as you call them worked their way through school doing low paying labor jobs. The difference is they chose to go the extra mile to better their situation. It all boils down to motivation. Most start at the bottom and work their way up. Some just do the minimum to survive and no more and never move up. That is their personal choice and they chose to stay with jobs that should be occupied by students and young people just starting out.

It's very much like a farm. The more you put into growing crops, the more you harvest.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: 727Sky

originally posted by: Cygnis
Sure..

Let us just pay everyone $5/hr no matter what job you do, no matter how long you've been there, no matter your education level.

Everyone gets $5/hr. No more raises, no more bonuses. A flat $5/hr across the board, for everyone. Oligarchs and rich people, everyone gets financial reset, and we all get $5/hr.

Then there won't be any complaints about wage gaps, inequality, etc.

Sounds great, then we can finally put this whole silly thing of inequality to bed.

While I understand your point.. These monkeys had the same back ground and were both tasked to do the exact same job..

Even monkeys recognize when they are getting screwed.

Neat point too, except when you have someone that has trained to do a job getting paid "x" amount then a fast food worker wanting the same for doing literally nothing it is sad.

And please don't tell me fast food jobs require training....if you can't figure that job out then you're doomed to welfare anyways.

Then train to get a real wage? 15 per hour is not the rate for siilled labor.