I Regret I have Concerns - London Attacks

A few things.

The first video, what he is talking about is the "Strategic intelligence operation centre" "SIOC" not psy-op, I guess SI-OC and psy-op sound the same. Now the UK as far as i am aware does not have a SIOC but their might be a American version and the news anchor was just doing what they do during these kinds of events and just spouting crap to keep talking.

I hardly think they are going to announce a psy-op like that on the news.

Second video...

That is just police changing gear. Contrary to your video some counter-terrorism officers do actually use combat fatigues.

Now yes 8 minutes is impressive but there are armed police all over London just now and this event took place in the very heart of London. They have constant roaming armed response vehicles all over the capital and after the Manchester attacks these have been stepped up. In that area I would not also be surprised if they has officers from Counter-Terrorism also on hand. You also mentioned the SAS, UKSF now have a permanent group on standby in the capital and have done for quite some time to assist police in these events.

Regarding what you have to say about the description of the suspects in the OP. Most Islamic terrorist attacks committed in the UK are committed by people who are British citizens of birth. So its quite possible they shouted in English and that one of them could have been white.

originally posted by: MagnaCarta2015
8 minute response time is actually not that fast considering armed police routinely patrol the Shard and London Bridge station. I pass through it all the time.

Star for you.

8 minutes is not strange. London was already on high alert, plus Saturday night at London Bridge is super busy always many cops a lot of them civilian clothed. Monument and Bank being very close and St Thomas is next door. Explains the fast EMT

There is one thing I cant get over though is the unusual shot out they did. I never ever heard this is for allah before. Whats with that? As for the arrested guy it could be unrelated arrest. Unlikely but possible.

a reply to: FissionSurplus

"As an American I wouldn't go to the UK if it was an all-expense-paid trip"?

I'm pretty sure I speak for most Brits when I say we view America as a far, far more dangerous place then Britain. And I say that as someone whose office is right next to the London Bridge attack scene, and was still sealed off until early this morning.

Get some perspective. You are far safer in Britain than in the land of the gun obsession.

originally posted by: szino9

originally posted by: MagnaCarta2015
8 minute response time is actually not that fast considering armed police routinely patrol the Shard and London Bridge station. I pass through it all the time.

Star for you.

8 minutes is not strange. London was already on high alert, plus Saturday night at London Bridge is super busy always many cops a lot of them civilian clothed. Monument and Bank being very close and St Thomas is next door. Explains the fast EMT

There is one thing I cant get over though is the unusual shot out they did. I never ever heard this is for allah before. Whats with that? As for the arrested guy it could be unrelated arrest. Unlikely but possible.

Islamic doesn't mean they have to be Arabic speakers. These are apparently people born and raised in London, so it doesn't seem odd to me.

On a side note, sickened to hear that one of the victims was a staff member at Boro Bistro. That is a regular after-work spot, and I am in Borough Market many lunchtimes as it is right across the road from my office. Seeing photos of dead attackers on the Stoney Street pavement I walk every day is quite surreal.

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
...
I caught this video online where CNN actually said the words "psy-op" in their report (it was also mentioned in another thread but no video)
...
Now this has been explained away as they were changing into protective clothing however they aren't....combat camo pants are NOT protective clothing.
...
But then there is this picture showing a man with camo pants and beard lying on the ground, who to me looks remarkably like the Policeman in the video changing into camo pants.
...
...particularly with the hoax bombs which is unusual for terrorist to say the least and with them shouting in English "this is for Allah" instead of the usual Allah's snackbar
...
The speed at which the Police & Military got there was pretty phenomenal for London on a Friday night. In just 8mins the whole thing was over. Even the SAS were there and a helicopter was flying around and they got all this and all those security forces there in 8mins? I dunno but it takes some time normally to get the military security mobilised and the armed response unit. I therefore believe that they knew this was going to happen and were indeed on standby.

CNN

CNN is made by retards for the benefit of other retards. It's generally safe to assume that whatever they say is 180 degrees from reality.

Response time

London Bridge is adjacent to a high priority area with a permanent armed presence and reinforcements available at very short notice. The people on duty wouldn't leave their posts (it could just be a distraction to draw them away, after all) but there would be additional units ready to move, including specialist units such as the SAS.

The threat level was still high, even if it wasn't at the highest setting. Again, given the proximity to a high priority area, it would be more surprising if there wasn't a fast reaction time.

Changing clothes

Interesting point. However, it's worth noting that the standard UK riot gear includes dark blue fireproof overalls, which is what most of the officers appear to be changing into in the video. Later video shows police in full riot gear.

The guy changing into camo seems odd, though I strongly disagree that he looks like the terrorist in the photo. Also, the camo pattern doesn't appear to match. Finally, why? Why change in the street in full public view?

Shouting in English

Good point. It seems unusual, but if this was a "psy-op" to sell the idea, surely they would have shouted in Arabic as we are conditioned to expect?

Fake bombs

Difficult to say. It's entirely possible that they were unable to source/manufacture bombs, or felt that the net was closing in and they had to act before they had time to get fully prepared. If they wanted to die for Allah, then running around with fake bombs was certainly an effective way to force a lethal confrontation instead of risking getting arrested.

For all we know, the attack might have been planned for later but moved forward because their bomb maker was arrested.

Summary

There are certainly some interesting observations, but nothing here that makes me concerned that this was any kind of "false flag".

a reply to: Rob48

Islamic doesn't mean they have to be Arabic speakers. These are apparently people born and raised in London, so it doesn't seem odd to me.

Ok I am down with that. Still for me is weird that someone commit an attack in the name of jhad and not able to learn 2 arabic words? Especially the two words comes hand to hand with this kinda attacks? nah...

originally posted by: szino9
a reply to: Rob48

Islamic doesn't mean they have to be Arabic speakers. These are apparently people born and raised in London, so it doesn't seem odd to me.

Ok I am down with that. Still for me is weird that someone commit an attack in the name of jhad and not able to learn 2 arabic words? Especially the two words comes hand to hand with this kinda attacks? nah...

But to turn that on its head.

If this was some kind of faked attack then why not just shout the words in Arabic to make it more convincing??

As i just mentioned on another thread, i watched these guys live on tv turning up, getting dressed into protective gear before going into what was thought to be a terror attack in progress.

Not all officers here are armed as you know, so public order gear (or that kind of thing) was the best these had at short notice. They were going to assist armed officers, and also officers dressed in everyday unprotected gear who had already challenged the attackers and who had been seriously injured as a result.

Changing into different gear in the street is not some suspicious act. Happens a lot.

CX.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I am not saying this was faked. I stuck with my opinion that the UK intelligence service is being overload to a point where they lost control.

I want to see the 3000 known suspicious individual being arrested today. Enough of soft balling. If there is a probable reason to get them than do it.

originally posted by: szino9

originally posted by: MagnaCarta2015
8 minute response time is actually not that fast considering armed police routinely patrol the Shard and London Bridge station. I pass through it all the time.

Star for you.

8 minutes is not strange. London was already on high alert, plus Saturday night at London Bridge is super busy always many cops a lot of them civilian clothed. Monument and Bank being very close and St Thomas is next door. Explains the fast EMT

There is one thing I cant get over though is the unusual shot out they did. I never ever heard this is for allah before. Whats with that? As for the arrested guy it could be unrelated arrest. Unlikely but possible.

Most likely explanation is a combination of fear, nerves, excitement and adrenalin. I've never been on a murderous rampage but they all do funny things to your brain.

I have difficulty believing it was a false flag because it's typically unsophisticated, doesn't require a great deal of planning or equipment and can be pulled off by the most idiotic members of society. When it's huge events that require coordination, training and precise planning I tend to be a lot more skeptical of the official narrative.

originally posted by: FissionSurplus
As an American, I wouldn't go to the UK, ESPECIALLY Britain, if it was an all-expense paid trip.

Well, you aren't invited, so don't let it bother you. Seriously, don't come. We don't need a bunch of frightened foreigners walking round London, worried that every brown person who looks at them funny is about to blow up.

Of course it's a bloodbath in the UK, with an average of 1.4 people being killed a year in terrorist incidents! The horror.

Then again with your 12,000 gun based homicides a year, or your 32,000 a year vehicle based deaths, our terrorists are going to have to think bigly to even scratch the surface of that kind of mortality.


People need to get things in perspective.


As to the OP. So it's a conspiracy because the police go there quickly? Presumably it would be a conspiracy if they got there slowly as well? You're clutching at straws.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Yes the SIOC and not psy-op has already been mentioned and I've told the video maker he was wrong
It didn't make sense in the context of the sentence

I'm aware that for example in riot situations, the police sometimes change gear, however if as you say everyone is already on standby wouldn't they already be in the correct gear? They were changing into riot gear...there was no riot. This was supposedly 2hrs after the event so not sure on that one...mind you I don't know if the time is correct either could have been before

8 mins to respond with all tactical teams and its over and done with? Not just the response time but to respond and deal with? Wow not surprising they are constantly pushing this time of 8mins. I think that's impressive to say the least

What say you about the suspect in custody that they were running through the street surrounded?

What about the silence of the three explosions that were heard from many people?

Just curious as to others opinions

a reply to: FatherLukeDuke

That was unkind and unecessary. No need to be sarcastic and unpleasant

As to the OP. So it's a conspiracy because the police go there quickly? Presumably it would be a conspiracy if they got there slowly as well? You're clutching at straws

No I am askiing questions simple especially in light of the ridiculous videos that are now circulating. I note though in between your sarcasm you haven't addressed either the 3 explosions that have never been heard of again nor the suspect in custody in the other video taken by a witness

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
I'm hesitant to post this but probably for the first time, I have concerns over this latest incident. Something doesn't sit right with me. Now whilst I have absolutely no doubt this happened people died and were hurt, I have some reservations that all is what it initially seems.

I caught this video online where CNN actually said the words "psy-op" in their report (it was also mentioned in another thread but no video)

Ok so that got me angry and quite confused so digging a bit deeper into stuff that hasn't yet been edited or deleted there was this picture posted in the main large thread about the attacks of the police changing clothes to which I found a video.

Now this has been explained away as they were changing into protective clothing however they aren't....combat camo pants are NOT protective clothing. Someone else said they could have been CID off duty and had no clothes with them so changed into whatever was in the van...not very likely. But then there is this picture showing a man with camo pants and beard lying on the ground, who to me looks remarkably like the Policeman in the video changing into camo pants. Now granted the pics aren't that great but its got me wondering big time, particularly with the hoax bombs which is unusual for terrorist to say the least and with them shouting in English "this is for Allah" instead of the usual Allah's snackbar, plus I was told one of the suspects was white early on in this scenario, which made me think ok Chechyens or similar. This is the pic of the suspect and fake bombs

The speed at which the Police & Military got there was pretty phenomenal for London on a Friday night. In just 8mins the whole thing was over. Even the SAS were there and a helicopter was flying around and they got all this and all those security forces there in 8mins? I dunno but it takes some time normally to get the military security mobilised and the armed response unit. I therefore believe that they knew this was going to happen and were indeed on standby.

Then with May's statement regarding regulating the internet to "avoid radicalisation" coupled with the Snoopers Charter last year, it seems to be an agenda and not necessarily simply for preventing terrorism. I could be just being over paranoid but its rare I get a feeling like something is so off

If this wasn't a false flag in the true sense of the phrase I fear this attack was known to security services and served as a way of getting to more people in the "gang" and was allowed to continue to see where it led.

I just don't know what to believe anymore and I'm stunned that if this is true our Government let it happen something i never thought would occur on these Shores

Churchill new, via enigma, that Coventry was going to be bombed, but did nothing as he did not want the germans to find out the Brits had cracked the enigma code by evacuating the city just before the bombing, as it was believed that there were spies still in operation. So, there is nothing new under the sun.

www.heritage.org...

a reply to: FatherLukeDuke

I put this up on the "Why we should vote for Corbyn" thread,

I thinks its better served here.

As a direct result of The Manchester attack Corbyn publicly announces its time to change the UK's foreign policy , and start talking with the Terrorists .
Remember some years ago , Spain pulled out of the Coalition with the West's involvement in the Middle East conflict after its trains got bombed killing 201 people,

Spain Retreat After the Madrid Bombings, Rewards Terrorism

So on Hearing how Corbyn is now prepared to change the UK's foreign policy because of the Manchester attack, and the fact that the Media now gives Corbyn a good chance of becoming Prime Minister , did that wobbly mindset of Corbyn inspire and give impetus to the latest attack in London, being only a few days away from the election, so as to cement this change of foreign policy in the mind of Corbyn if he became the leader of the UK's government.

Was the Spain affect in the minds of the terrorists, and did Corbyns wobble light the touch fuse of those three terrorists ?

Its not our way of life they are trying to destroy , but our foreign policy, as they know its hitting them hard in their homeland.

Back in 96 , I was part of a software development team where we were asked to port some Cobol to C .

The application was based number matching algorithm and it was being developed for the CCTV Circuits in UK .

This area of London is so full of cameras that nothing escapes from the CCTV .

There should be a visual journey on record of these terrorists .


Lastly , stop buying whatever the Government is selling ; this stand is inherently against the spirit of ATS .

Government concept is based upon The Ignorance of the Masses .

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

I am more than happy to take each of your points, point by point.

There does not seem to be much point going over the SIOC confusion because we are in agreement on that.

I'm aware that for example in riot situations, the police sometimes change gear, however if as you say everyone is already on standby wouldn't they already be in the correct gear?

Quit a lot of police where already in the correct gear such as the AFO's and CT officers who were first to arrive and counter the threat. Lots of regular beat officers are also trained riot officers or trained AFOs so it makes sense that in a situation such as this they might end up getting into their gear at the scene depending on the situation.

They were changing into riot gear...there was no riot.

Now i actually did not make the asumtion they were getting into riot gear. However even if there was no riot the police would probably want to have the same protective gear on. To me the officers in that video look like they may be from CO20 or the Territorial support group who provide support to CO19 when trying to secure a large area. The use of combat fatigues suggest they may also be from the elite CO-19's Counter-Terrorism Specials Firearms officers.

My question to you, which i would appreciate if you would answer as i have answered yours is this...

What do you think they were doing if not changing into more appropriate gear?

This was supposedly 2hrs after the event so not sure on that one...mind you I don't know if the time is correct either could have been before

I have a good friend who was witness to what happened last night and knows others who were also witnesses. One of the interesting things he has to say to me was that although it only took 8 minutes to kill the guys, it took hours for the police to actually secure the area. For example, he told me of one woman he knows who at 3 am was evacuated by armed police. So them still deploying two hours after the event does not surprise me.

8 mins to respond with all tactical teams and its over and done with?

I think i have covered this above but yes it took 8 mins to kill those guys but the actual police operation went on well into the night to ensure the entire area was secure.

What say you about the suspect in custody that they were running through the street surrounded?

I was of the understanding that there were only 3 attackers who were involved. I know there was another unrelated stabbing at Vaxhaul but if i have missed something then please provide a link and i will be happy to adress this issue.

What about the silence of the three explosions that were heard from many people?

These were controled explosions

originally posted by: szino9
a reply to: Rob48

Islamic doesn't mean they have to be Arabic speakers. These are apparently people born and raised in London, so it doesn't seem odd to me.

Ok I am down with that. Still for me is weird that someone commit an attack in the name of jhad and not able to learn 2 arabic words? Especially the two words comes hand to hand with this kinda attacks? nah...

The people they were attacking were unlikely to speak Arabic. If you want to get your message across as to why you are attacking people, yelling in an unknown language isn't very useful.

As for the speed of police response, as others have said armed police are all over the place in London at the moment. My office is next to the Shard and overlooks the scene on London Bridge. Going in and out of work I saw numerous armed police on patrol in recent weeks, especially at London Bridge station which is no more than 200 yards from the scene. I could run from the main London Bridge station entrance to the point where the van crashed in less than a minute, and I am no Usain Bolt.

My desk overlooks the station and most of the time there is at least one police van parked outside in the street below, with several officers (I assume armed ones) visible in the back.

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: FatherLukeDuke

That was unkind and unecessary. No need to be sarcastic and unpleasant

No need to start wildly speculative conspiracy theories before the victims relatives have even started grieving. Still, you've gone and done it now, so you can put up with some mild criticism.

No I am askiing questions simple especially in light of the ridiculous videos that are now circulating. I note though in between your sarcasm you haven't addressed either the 3 explosions that have never been heard of again nor the suspect in custody in the other video taken by a witness

What's even to address? As with all these incidents these days we have a morass of social media and multiple rolling new channels, all reporting things in "real time", often with zero validation. This generates huge amounts of white noise.

Some nervous guy hears a loud noise next, phones it into the police. Suddenly some media channel are reporting that "Police are investigating an explosion in such and such area". The police go and find his neaghbour just dropped his frying pan.

Then we have someone tweeting "I just heard an explosion! #Londonterror" and now some breathless reporter is on the TV going "We have multiple reports of explosions round London!". It's meaningless noise.

In this case, they were probably controlled explosions.

What are you suggesting here anyway? That the van didn't really plow into a crowd on London Bridge? That there weren't multiple stabbings in Borough Market?

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Just wanted to touch on this from your OP.

Even the SAS were there and a helicopter was flying around and they got all this and all those security forces there in 8mins? I dunno but it takes some time normally to get the military security mobilised and the armed response unit.

So when it comes to SAS deployment there seems to be allot of misunderstanding over how this works.

So the first to respond to a incident like this are the police, given the situation being reported "someone just drived into a crowd of people and now people are being stabbed by guys" terrorism becomes the first priority. Its not a simple matter of mobilising the SAS. SAS deployment requires civilian authority sometimes this is called "Platinum authority".

In the first instance then it is one of the roaming CO-19 Armed response vehicles that are mobilised along with the elite Counter-Terrorism Specialist Firearms teams with in CO-19 who are on constant standby. It is obvious when looking at the early pictures that the first officers were CO-19 and CTSF. It was officers from CO-19 who dealt with the threat.

What then happened is that they suspected they may still have had a terrorist on the run. In the hierarchy of command what then happens is that the commander in Scotland Yard known as Gold Commander has to request authority form the civilian authority, usually the Home Sectary for military support. This support comes form a group who were formed after attacks in Paris in 2015. Their actual name is unknown but the media all them "Blue Thunder".

Blue Tunder is a UKSF unit that is made up of all elements of UKSF, that is to say SAS, SBS and SRR who rotate domestic counter terrorism duties. Usually there is one SAS and one SBS squadron on standby for counter-terrorism and quick response actions. Now since the 7/7 attacks a SAS unit has been read to respond in London, Blue Thunder is kind of a more formal function. They are made up of about 70 UKSF members who are to respond to situations were by we have some natters with a gun going on a rampage or other terrorist incidents that require very fast very specialised intervention.

We know Blue Thunder was deployed last night because their unmarked blue helicopter was seen landing (hence the name blue thunder). However they were not there with in 8 minutes. They were given authority to deploy because there was a belief that there could be more suspects at large. This is the first known time that this unit has been deployed with authorisation to assist in a unfolding terrorist incident.

I find this stuff all quite interesting and I know its nitpicking but its a subject I thought other members might want to know about.