Portland Free Speech Rally – Live Updates!

a reply to: Abysha

But you are talking about being influenced by ideas ...

Then you are talking about being insensitive ...

Which is more of a concern to you?

You seem to go back and forth between them freely as you waffle to make your argument for simply not having to endure knowing these people with a message you don't like are holding a rally openly in *your* city.

And I really think that's the main problem you have - you don't like what they're saying, so you don't want them to say it, and you are twisting and turning to find any reason you can to justify it that won't make you sound anti-free speech. But the very fact that you've been putting free speech in square quotes this entire time shows how much you don't consider this to actually be speech, not speech you want protected.

As I said before, this is the hardest kind of speech to argue for because it's not stuff anyone really wants to hear, but that doesn't stop the principle for being the same.

If you and I get to discuss the things we believe in, then so do these people - when and where they want, and so long as they don't take violent actions that break the law, they are withing their rights to say their piece no matter how anyone else feels about that. Free speech does not hinge on anyone's feelings.

a reply to: DBCowboy

They got flashbangs instead, I almost feel bad.

Yell free speech is awesome until Kathy Griffin (who I hate because she was never funny) or any other left wing person giving their opinion, then they should be attacked, silenced or called names such as traitor, enemy or whatever they can think of.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: stosh64
Guess who started getting violent, attacking police, and was cleared out of an area.

ANTIFA.

I know, shocker.

They were promised juice boxes.

There were no juice boxes.

Justified.

And anti-mold hair spray !!

originally posted by: thetruth2017
Yell free speech is awesome until Kathy Griffin (who I hate because she was never funny) or any other left wing person giving their opinion, then they should be attacked and silenced.

Kathy Griffin was free to post her photo, and it might have worked out OK for her too had she not made it so obviously ugly in intent.

Comediennes were supposed to be funny last I checked along with their jokes.

a reply to: Abysha

I understand your point of view and I agree that it would be the civil thing to do if they accepted the actions of that member as their own.

Unfortunately they renounced him and have done everything they can to distance themselves from him. Including not postponing the rally.

They don't want to be associated with murders. That should give you some hope that they are not all bad.

We need a Juice Box Summit.

Juice Box Summit 2017.

Everyone can attend and then ignore each other as everyone else speaks.

But there must be juice boxes. And skeleton puppets.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Abysha

But you are talking about being influenced by ideas ...

Then you are talking about being insensitive ...

Which is more of a concern to you?

You seem to go back and forth between them freely as you waffle to make your argument for simply not having to endure knowing these people with a message you don't like are holding a rally openly in *your* city.

And I really think that's the main problem you have - you don't like what they're saying, so you don't want them to say it, and you are twisting and turning to find any reason you can to justify it that won't make you sound anti-free speech. But the very fact that you've been putting free speech in square quotes this entire time shows how much you don't consider this to actually be speech, not speech you want protected.

As I said before, this is the hardest kind of speech to argue for because it's not stuff anyone really wants to hear, but that doesn't stop the principle for being the same.

If you and I get to discuss the things we believe in, then so do these people - when and where they want, and so long as they don't take violent actions that break the law, they are withing their rights to say their piece no matter how anyone else feels about that. Free speech does not hinge on anyone's feelings.

Oh, it's the timing. I've been consistent about that.

No, I don't agree with their message (which isn't about the legal right to speak). But that's not relevant. This is why I keep giving analogies. It's the others on here who can't see past the politics.

This could have been about pineapple on pizza and it would have been insensitive to hold a rally about it.

I never once, in either of these threads, condoned the protests. I only said it was a bad idea to hold the rally and kind of a jerk move.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
We need a Juice Box Summit.

Juice Box Summit 2017.

Everyone can attend and then ignore each other as everyone else speaks.

But there must be juice boxes. And skeleton puppets.

This is Portland, so it must be organic, fair trade, no sugar added, vegan juice. Made with real vegans!

a reply to: Abysha

You do understand that most rallies require lots of permits, right? Those permits cost money, sometimes lots, right?

And depending on city and venue and sheer cussedness of the bureaucratic apparatus, rescheduling any event can be hell on wheels ...

So how easy to you think it is to just drop everything on a dime and reschedule it?

a reply to: DBCowboy

a reply to: ketsuko

Have you ever squeezed a vegan?

Don't ever squeeze a vegan.

Please.

Oh man.

Don't.

Now I can't stop obsessing over squeezed vegans.

originally posted by: DiaJax
a reply to: Abysha

I understand your point of view and I agree that it would be the civil thing to do if they accepted the actions of that member as their own.

Unfortunately they renounced him and have done everything they can to distance themselves from him. Including not postponing the rally.

They don't want to be associated with murders. That should give you some hope that they are not all bad.

I don't think they are all bad! People have murdered in the name of my ideology too! It's the situation and timing that is messed up.

I have friends who are with these rally folk (not physically, because they think it's a dick move like the rest of us here). They really do believe in free speech and the ability to speak their mind. The particular people I know who are sided with them aren't in it just so they can shout slurs without criticism, though. In some ways, I even agree with them. But it's not about that.

Please believe me when I say that my opinion on them holding this rally has nothing to do with their ideology beyond the fact that it is one week after a person who subscribed to (specifically) them killed two people standing up to a racist bully.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: ketsuko

Have you ever squeezed a vegan?

Don't ever squeeze a vegan.

Please.

Oh man.

Don't.

Now I can't stop obsessing over squeezed vegans.

The ensuing gas is beyond imaginable. I'm only a vegitarian, and only fart when nobody is around... but daaaaayum... it's toxic. Vegans are ten times worse.

On the upside, I haven't had B.O. since I stopped eating meat.

It's controllable horrible stench vs a lesser stench you can't control.

I'll choose the strategic nukes over the dirty bombs, any day of the week.

a reply to: DBCowboy



A little like this? Full of that nasty vegan cheeze!

a reply to: Abysha

To be honest I don't know what either group is about.

Yeah it is messed but I don't think they had much of choice in the matter.

Either it's have your whole free speech movement get derailed by one member. Then have the focus of your group reduced to being xenophobic murders.

Or

Try to rid yourself of the stigma of one member and preach whatever message you wanted to preach.

This is going hang over them like a cloud until they can prove that's not what they are all about. So they are trying their best to remove that label as soon as possible.

Although like I said before I really don't what these groups are about. That is the practical reason for going ahead.

Oh and it's expensive to cancel, maybe.

So yes they are selfish and lack empathy.

Things are starting to heat up.....

a reply to: xuenchen

Police have detained a whole crowd of people.

originally posted by: DiaJax
a reply to: Abysha

To be honest I don't know what either group is about.

Yeah it is messed but I don't think they had much of choice in the matter.

Either it's have your whole free speech movement get derailed by one member. Then have the focus of your group reduced to being xenophobic murders.

Or

Try to rid yourself of the stigma of one member and preach whatever message you wanted to preach.

This is going hang over them like a cloud until they can prove that's not what they are all about. So they are trying their best to remove that label as soon as possible.

Although like I said before I really don't what these groups are about. That is the practical reason for going ahead.

Oh and it's expensive to cancel, maybe.

That's the kind of perspective I like. You don't assume my affiliation and you have none... yet your opinion is different than mine.

This is the second comment in this thread that will make me think later tonight

Fox News: Pro-Trump Free Speech rally. Counter-protests, one arrest.

CNN: Evil people who like the ####er Trump speaking when they should shut the #### up versus the peaceful loving angels of light.