How gravity really works

originally posted by: TheKestrel04
a reply to: greenreflections

So basically your saying geomertic deformation of objects induces kinetic energy in objects which we perceive as gravity?

I might agree if you clarify that a little.

From what I can assume, test body, once inside gravity affected area will undergo deformation because available spatial space says so. Test body In attempt to sustain it's original shape adopts it's inner ballanced construct to new geometry. As soon as new geometry has been accommodated, available spatial space offers yet new, even more distorted shape. It's a run away process where with every attempt to maintain original shape, new shape (more stretched) is offered. Test body knows nothing about gravity well, it is simply sustaining it's composure and appears moving to outside observer.

Ask yourself a question: So what if test object is inside gravity well... How does it start to 'free fall" when there are no forces involved.

I can see kinetic energy build up in that 'catch up' game.

Note: Outside gravity well or inside of it, test body always experiences zero g..all the way.


When there is no more distance to fall, test object lands on the surface. Since effects of gravity span beyond the surface, test body will meet resistance preventing it from continuing free falling while geometry dictates it to. Then test body will experience weight...A pressure to a surface.


Tell me about what you were thinking of that kinetic energy induction. It is interesting.

a reply to: wildespace

As to what actually causes the acceleration..

That's why I am on this thread posting my understanding of this very question.

Personally, I beleive gravity is due to dilation of time near massive bodies.

I would like to hear your interpretation. If you could, please, describe step by step what happens to an apple when it is dropped..




cheers)

a reply to: greenreflections

I pondered what gravity is for sometime and when you compare it to other forces one notices gravity is bizarre. I virtually affects all matter and has seemingly undeminishing permeability, you can't seem to block it. If you look at "centrifugal force" is merely the object trying to maintain a straight trajectory whilst in a forced circular path.So it's more alike a mechanism which I think gravity maybe rather than actual force.Time and gravity seems to relate to each other in manner that electricity and magnetism does. So maybe by a large object like a planet distorting space matter nearby is diffused/distorted and this results in the input of kinetic energy in other words forcing the matter to move to where the distortion occurs . This maybe a like a natural warp drive effect where in the space that is distorted is spread out or wider/less dense than natural space thus the object goes to the point of "less resistance". Thus objects in space may accelerate towards Distortion Wells aka the mechanism we call gravity.

In this sense weight can be described as the amount of applied pressure to the surface thus weight = kinetic force. Therefore Mass x Kinetic force = Gravity.

originally posted by: greenreflections

From what I can assume, test body, once inside gravity affected area will undergo deformation because available spatial space says so. Test body In attempt to sustain it's original shape adopts it's inner ballanced construct to new geometry. As soon as new geometry has been accommodated, available spatial space offers yet new, even more distorted shape. It's a run away process where with every attempt to maintain original shape, new shape (more stretched) is offered. Test body knows nothing about gravity well, it is simply sustaining it's composure and appears moving to outside observer.

This is what I mean by kinetic induction, literally a rubber band effect.

originally posted by: greenreflections
a reply to: wildespace

Personally, I beleive gravity is due to dilation of time near massive bodies.

I would like to hear your interpretation. If you could, please, describe step by step what happens to an apple when it is dropped..




cheers)

Ok, here goes...

Time flows at a slower rate the nearer you get to a massive body. Also keep in mind that atoms and sub-atomic particles are always in motion. The descrepancy in the flow of time causes the atoms to move (or "slide") towards the slower-time area, in a similar way osmosis works with fresh water wanting to move into the salty water.

An apple, when dropped, will also experience this discrepancy in the flow of time, and will start to accelerate towards the slower-time area nearer the ground.

In the video that I posted for this thread, think of the stretched lines as stretched-out time. Effectively, this stretching out means a second near a massive body lasts longer than a second further away from it.

a reply to: wildespace

Hi there)

Cool. Thank you for posting your vision on this matter. It is always interesting to read different versions of as what might be happening when test object is inside gravity affected area.

The descrepancy in the flow of time causes the atoms to move (or "slide") towards the slower-time area

One note about your approach if you don't mind.

From what I understand in SR, time dilation is only apparent relative to another frame of reference. If I were in that 'another frame', I would see no changes in my clock ticks. In other words, time flows as 'normal' in that other frame of reference. It is only if I compare the clocks at the end of my experiment, I will notice clock from that other frame showing time ran late compare to mine.

Atoms will never know if there is any other state of time except for what they are experiencing. Hence, no motion toward slower time area coz it is only apparent.

Also, your explanation does not take into account the fact that all physical bodies free fall at the same rate regardless of their mass, composition, density or size, or does it?
Coz amount of atoms that constitute our test bodies is different and hence should touch down Moon's surface at different moments, heavier (more massive) bodies should fall faster, imo, based of what I said above.


cheers)

originally posted by: TheKestrel04

originally posted by: greenreflections

From what I can assume, test body, once inside gravity affected area will undergo deformation because available spatial space says so. Test body In attempt to sustain it's original shape adopts it's inner ballanced construct to new geometry. As soon as new geometry has been accommodated, available spatial space offers yet new, even more distorted shape. It's a run away process where with every attempt to maintain original shape, new shape (more stretched) is offered. Test body knows nothing about gravity well, it is simply sustaining it's composure and appears moving to outside observer.

This is what I mean by kinetic induction, literally a rubber band effect.

Agree.

I might add...run away 'rubber band' effect... where for rubber band with each moment passed, is becoming harder to get back to original 'round' shape.

originally posted by: greenreflections
a reply to: wildespace

From what I understand in SR, time dilation is only apparent relative to another frame of reference. If I were in that 'another frame', I would see no changes in my clock ticks. In other words, time flows as 'normal' in that other frame of reference. It is only if I compare the clocks at the end of my experiment, I will notice clock from that other frame showing time ran late compare to mine.

But in this case, gravitational time dilation is involved, which is part of GR, and is absolute for all frames of reference. In other words, if you orbited high above Earth and could see a clock on the ground, it would seem to run slower than your own clock... but an observer on the ground who could also see your clock would see it running faster. In SR, time dilation is due to speed of motion relative to each other, and both observers will see the other's clock running slower. With gravitational time dilation, the discrepancy in the flow of time is not apparent, it's real.

In essence, my "theory" is nothing cardinal. Gravitational time dilation is the essential part of GR, and all I'm proposing is that this difference in the flow of time near massive bodies is what causes them to slide towards each other.

Also, your explanation does not take into account the fact that all physical bodies free fall at the same rate regardless of their mass, composition, density or size, or does it?
Coz amount of atoms that constitute our test bodies is different and hence should touch down Moon's surface at different moments, heavier (more massive) bodies should fall faster, imo, based of what I said above.

So now you're going against the established physics? I guess it's the kind of thing a layman would say, based on very limited understanding, but that all objects fall at the same rate has been proven and explained long ago.

a reply to: wildespace



What does established physics say? That objects free fall in accelerating manner because of "difference in the flow" of time? I would like to see may be at least pop science article that explains that.

Sorry, I am a layman. I was hoping mechanism on how objects fall would be an easy few words thing to explain to layman rather than 100 of pages of formulas in scientific paper.

originally posted by: greenreflections
a reply to: wildespace



What does established physics say? That objects free fall in accelerating manner because of difference in the flow of time?

Physics say that all bodies fall at the same rate because the greater force on the heavier body is cancelled out by the greater mass of that body. www.mytutor.co.uk...

Excuse my rant board, please...

My logical view on gravity effect might have something to do with concept of 'motion'...may be.
Besides how and why an apple is falling, from an apple's frame of reference, it is not moving. It is simply attempting to stay in one piece due to experiencing inner deformation as under applied forces. But in fact there are no forces that act on an apple, only more 'confined' spatial space.

originally posted by: wildespace

originally posted by: greenreflections
a reply to: wildespace



What does established physics say? That objects free fall in accelerating manner because of difference in the flow of time?

Physics say that all bodies fall at the same rate because the greater force on the heavier body is cancelled out by the greater mass of that body. www.mytutor.co.uk...

I thought we agreed that gravity is not a force. Never mind...

Thinking of gravity as a force makes all that hype of levitation and anti gravity. There is no anti gravity conceptually. It does not exist in a meaningful sense, imo.
Gravity effect is not a force you can counter with 'anti' or 'opposite' value of force.

That's what I think.

originally posted by: greenreflections
a reply to: wildespace
What does established physics say? That objects free fall in accelerating manner because of "difference in the flow" of time? I would like to see may be at least pop science article that explains that.

Sorry, I am a layman. I was hoping mechanism on how objects fall would be an easy few words thing to explain to layman rather than 100 of pages of formulas in scientific paper.

Is that smple enough for you?
blog.degruyter.com...

originally posted by: greenreflections
Thinking of gravity as a force makes all that hype of levitation and anti gravity. There is no anti gravity conceptually. It does not exist in a meaningful sense, imo.
Gravity effect is not a force you can counter with 'anti' or 'opposite' value of force.

That's what I think.

Can you counter electromagnetism? You can't counter any of the fundamental forces, but they are still forces.

A force is something that causes change in motion, or allows some work being done. Gravity is that something. Release an object hung up by a string, and it will start accelerating towards Earth. If there were no forces involved, the object would stay where it was.

The question is - what exactly creates that force? Einsteinian physics describe gravity as curvature of spacetime, but still don't address what exactly causes bodies to accelerate towards each other. My little "addendum" about time dilation provides the mechanism for that.

a reply to: greenreflections

As already stated, gravity is the domain of massive objects. The feather and hammer have virtually the same weight and no gravitational potential. The only source of gravity in the Apollo 15 experiment is the moon and both falling objects are equally attracted to this.

originally posted by: Cinnamon
a reply to: greenreflections

As already stated, gravity is the domain of massive objects. The feather and hammer have virtually the same weight and no gravitational potential. The only source of gravity in the Apollo 15 experiment is the moon and both falling objects are equally attracted to this.

Not entirely correct. All objects that have mass have their own gravity, including the hammer and the feather. If left near each other in space (and far away from moons or planets), they will slowly but surely move towards each other.

Even single atoms and molecules have their own gravity, which is how interstellar clouds of gas and dust collapse to form stars.

a reply to: wildespace

Even single atoms and molecules have their own gravity..

How about proton or neutron? Do they also exert own gravity field?
Because you indirectly suggested atoms bind because they are in gravitational (geometrical) interaction somehow?

a reply to: Cinnamon

The feather and hammer have virtually the same weight

How so? Hammer is obviously heavier.