Increased Security at events, and declining refugees is pointless

Dragging us back to topic.

Increased security and declining refugees is not pointless.

However, increased security is often just making police more visible, and in the UK that means breaking out some guns. Dragging out the army is also a bit of a PR move, but based on risk and public expectation. Personally, I am not comfortable with the armed services being deployed unless there is a clear threat, so perhaps there's intelligence. If there is a risk that there are more nut-jobs out there, then the way to mitigate is to visibly display a deterrent. The problem with the army is that they are not controlled by a civil code, like the police.

On declining refugees. I think it's about being more selective. Let's look at an example. Not everyone fleeing Iran, or Libya is good. They may be fleeing because they are in fact trouble makers - the wrong type of political agitators, so to speak. Allowing them into the UK does not stop them making trouble, it just gives them a freer hand. There are numerous examples of people who flee other countries they are bad people and should not be granted asylum in the UK. One example is Abu Qatada who was afforded protection in the UK, but spent his life attempting to destabilise the UK before he was eventually chucked out.

a reply to: paraphi

It seems some of our military are already among us, in plain clothes, armed, and watching body language. More practical than PR.

The problem with the army is that they are not controlled by a civil code . . .

My experience of trying to take the 'support the constables' message to the military didn't reassure me at all.

I'm expecting the unexpected.

Posted this in another thread also.

The latest statement of the current Home Secretary that put more police and military on the streets will keep us safe! This is a false statement because that will not deter or stop a suicide bomber! Only preventative measures directed at those who could possibly be a threat can keep people and our children safe!!

We need laws!

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: DBCowboy

Publically executing them would be a start.

They are already dead...their purpose is to die and take as many with them as they can. This guy in England, like most, do not live a life of destruction, they do one event of destruction with many years of nothing... look at 911, they lived for many years here, were nice to they neighbors, lived the dream... then they got an a plane to die...

Yep. Martyrdom is actually what these people crave, so publicly executing them, if they survive the bombing, is giving them exactly what they want, and is supporting their cause. So, attacks would only increase as others are inspired.

You can kill terrorists with bullets, but you can only kill terrorism by educating the medieval mindset out of the people.

Increased Security does work.

just look at the aviation industry after 9/11 the changes to security since then have made targeting planes very difficult. So increased security does work, right now we have troops stationed at downing street, so if ISIS would like to talk a walk down their with a few AK's they might find themselves coming off worse. There was a attempted attack in Barcelona just a few weeks ago where police shot the driver of a speeding truck full with gas canisters.

Now what is true is that regardless of how much you increase security you will never be able to stop 100% of attacks. In the UK over the last 10 years however thanks to increased security we have thwarted 13 attacks and we have something like 130 individuals in jail right now for terrorism offences, there have been 500 investigations into terrorism acts and the head of MI5 said that they have some 2000 individuals who they suspect of having terrorist intentions.

We need an effective way to fight back, or figure out the best way to surrender.

Because the middle ground we're living in? People keep dying, terrorists keep blowing people up, and more laws are screwing over our freedoms.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Its actually not that bad. I doubt it has ever been this safe to live on earth. But yes there is always place for improvement.

a reply to: Golantrevize

I guess that's just a matter of opinion.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Golantrevize

I guess that's just a matter of opinion.

Not necessarily.

Almost every week, stories about a scandal, a war, a disease, climate change, income inequality and a shaky economic recovery have dominated the news cycle, giving us all reasons to be terrified. But a new website, ourworldindata.org, provides a much needed analysis about the good news out there.

Max Roser, an economist at the Institute for New Economic Thinking at Oxford University, is the creator of the Our World In Data website. And while it may seem like the world has gotten worse over time, Roser's data suggests that good things are happening, even if they take a bit of time.

“We live in a much more peaceful and inclusive world than our ancestors of the past,” he says. “The news is very much focused on singular events. All of these trends that I’m looking at are slow changes that happen over decades, or sometimes even centuries. These developments never have a ‘now’ moment that would make them interesting for news that is following current events.”

www.pri.org...

originally posted by: DBCowboy
We need an effective way to fight back, or figure out the best way to surrender.

Because the middle ground we're living in? People keep dying, terrorists keep blowing people up, and more laws are screwing over our freedoms.

You want some effective ways to fight back? I'll give you a few.

1. Stop supporting and funding the Saudis, the biggest financiers and spreaders of the extremist ideology that inspires wannabe martyrs and delusional turds to go blow up places full of women and children. Cut off the head of the octopus and stop wasting time

2. Better refugee/immigrant integration and education. Secularization and socialization. Discourage and battle against segregated ethnic neighborhoods, settle refugees dispersed through the country for better integration and naturalization to the native culture. Emphasize that while freedom of religion is accepted, there are limits to what is permissible in practice. And enforce a zero tolerance policy against extremism. Encourage immigrants to actively participate in national activities and cultural traditions. The more they are integrated in, and feel vested in, the stability of their new homes, the less likely they are to attack their new host country. Especially target integration and naturalization efforts towards schoolkids.

3. Stop bombing their countries for oil or shady arms deals, and giving them free reasons to hate us and recruit more terrorists. And stop supporting the regimes that create the fertile fields that terrorism grows in.

4. If the Muslim world is to be saved from its own folly, it is going to have to come from within. From the ranks of it's thinkers, secularists, intellectuals, and moderates. These folks often live in hiding, or silent in their homelands because of fear for their lives and families, due to their more moderate, even progressive views. However, these people are the key, I believe, to ending terrorism and bringing the Muslim world into the 21st century. But I don't see much effort in the west on training and cultivating movements with these people. Instead, western governments just arm rebel groups that turn into terrorists. Instead of funding rebel fighters of the "Arab spring" the west needs to focus a collective effort on the intellectual/cultural revolution in the middle east. Remember Voice of America and all the good stuff we used to blast into the Eastern Bloc with, seeding their minds with all those capitalist pig ideas? The Middle East has even less restrictions, yet no concerted effort to work modern thinking into Muslim culture exists. But so long as their thinking remains in the dark ages, their behavior will do the same.

5. Stop flipping out every time a terrorist attack happens. When one happens, you clean up, treat the wounded, bury and honor the dead, and hunt the guilty and crucify them if they still live. But stop freaking out and demanding the heads of anyone wearing a funny hat. That kind of fear and hatred is exactly the desired effect of the terrorist attack. You gave them exactly what they want: your fear and attention, and for you to behave exactly in the same manner as they. The death and carnage is simply their preferred method of obtaining this result.


6. Accept that terrorism is going to become a fact of life for a few years, but the over all goal is defeating it in the long term. And if you want to do that, you need to get to the minds of the young before the extremists do.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Imagine if every act of kindness happening daily received media attention like all of the atrocities. I believe we do way more good than evil as a species.

Of all the people you know ( 400-500) how many commit terrible acts daily compared to the good things they do in their day to day lives.

This agenda of fear started quite a while back when whoever tries to control the masses realized that wars were being held too far away from the occident and the level of fear was diminushing greatly compared to the old days of Europe when there was always a neighbour to fear or go to war with. France, England, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Prussia, Russia etc...It was a constent struggle for survival.

Even ISIS, boko haram, Al Queda, etc... No longer makes the population worried. Yes it is terrible but it is so far away. China, North Korea and Russia may be a scary thought but anyone informed enough about the ramifications of such wars knows that it is at most muscle flexing.

This is why the medias try to bring the warfront as close as they can. Fear must be maintained at all cost or people will emancipate themselves from the chains of tyranny that is fear.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep

But if it has to be about a crazy person blowing them selves up here is one. en.wikipedia.org...

I guess you do not understand...There are crazies everywhere and yes they do things like this above. What the problem we are facing is the sear volume of Islamic extremist that are willing to kill and die for their religion. These are not deranged people, but very sane that feel what they are doing is the 100% correct thing to do. 911 was a group of families that lived, planed and prepped for years. The recent attack on the Afghan Base where I have friends at was 12 men that went there to kill and die and they did...

Many Mosques have a well honed systematic process for creating radicals from the very young, and this why it looks like there is an endless stream of suicide radicals.

a reply to: Lucidparadox

I agree that it can be easy to dehumanize one's perceived enemy in one's mind. And i feel bitterly bitterly sorry for the babies born into the households of radical Muslims,hell i feel bitterly sorry for any baby born into the household of religious nutcases,of which there are Many in Christianity too. Only they tend to not go around committing atrocities in the modern world but it's still grossly unfair to the poor kids,imo.

But it is what it is,now the West have,as Stephen King would say,a f*ckarow on their hands.

That is the reality they have to deal with.And must try to find solutions.It is all good and well to have sympathy with how a person who is a threat to your life,your society and your way of life, came to be that way -but in the end the fact that there is a clear and present danger Has to be somehow dealt with,if you wish to survive or continue your way of life.That is the position the West is in now.

[

These are not deranged people, but very sane that feel what they are doing is the 100% correct thing to do

This is the part you don't understand. The ones pulling the strings are the only sane ones. Those at the top would never sacrifice their lives for the cause. They manipulate the insecure , the mentally ill, and the mentally disabled. Sane people would not blow themselves up for any reason. Ask yourself, have you ever read about a collage educated muslim killing themselves for allah? Have you ever heard of a muslim that makes a lot of money lives in a big house and has a good family killing themselves for allah? And if you are able to search google and find a report of such, make sure you dig deep into that persons history to make sure they don't have mental illness. the ones committing these atrocities are the dregs of society, the homeless, the scared, the ones cast aside by friends, family , and country. There is a lot more to it than religious beliefs.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
Have you ever heard of a muslim that makes a lot of money lives in a big house and has a good family killing themselves for allah?

All the 911 hijackers lived here for years, were great neighbors, had their families here etc all the while working to die for Allah. The ones in Afghanistan are typical soldiers... Most live a normal life like the San Bernardino killers did. The latest one in England lived a normal life up to the point he decided to become a suicide bomber. In the end, religion is still the motivator whether they are sane or not...