Increased Security at events, and declining refugees is pointless

Ladies and gentlemen, there is no defending this. The further back you put security.. the further back the attacks will occur.

That is kind of the point. The farther back the attack occurs, the less the damage occurs. It is a matter of minimizing the effectiveness of the attack.

a reply to: Xtrozero

The only way to defeat a monster is being a bigger, meaner monster.

I rally don't want our society to surrender to these cowards.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

Why shouldn't we hate islam? What has it done for me? Nothing. The world? Nothing. Only an ongoing attempt at bringing an antiquated culture to Europe and the West who don't want it.

originally posted by: hombero
a reply to: worldstarcountry

Why shouldn't we hate islam? What has it done for me? Nothing. The world? Nothing. Only an ongoing attempt at bringing an antiquated culture to Europe and the West who don't want it.

Science in the medieval Islamic world was the science developed and practised during the Islamic Golden Age under the Abbasid Caliphate (c. 800–1250). Islamic scientific achievements encompassed a wide range of subject areas, especially astronomy, mathematics, and medicine. Other subjects of scientific inquiry included alchemy and chemistry, botany, geography and cartography, ophthalmology, pharmacology, physics, and zoology.

Source

originally posted by: dreamingawake

originally posted by: hombero
a reply to: worldstarcountry

Why shouldn't we hate islam? What has it done for me? Nothing. The world? Nothing. Only an ongoing attempt at bringing an antiquated culture to Europe and the West who don't want it.

Science in the medieval Islamic world was the science developed and practised during the Islamic Golden Age under the Abbasid Caliphate (c. 800–1250). Islamic scientific achievements encompassed a wide range of subject areas, especially astronomy, mathematics, and medicine. Other subjects of scientific inquiry included alchemy and chemistry, botany, geography and cartography, ophthalmology, pharmacology, physics, and zoology.

Source

Unfortunately, it seems as if Islam has went backwards compared to many other ideologies and their thoughts on civilization. I am no historian, but I have read that there were attempts at more humanitarian reformations that were forced out through violence.

But I do agree with the spirit of your posts, that there have been significant cultural achievements in the Islamic world.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

The only way to defeat a monster is being a bigger, meaner monster.

I rally don't want our society to surrender to these cowards.

So you need to figure out what it is that makes a person willing to kill themselves for an ideology. I sure the hell am not willing are you? Once again these are people that live the western life, a good life....

Just stop bringing in more Muslims from horrible countries. Less Islam=Less terrorism, it's a pretty clear correlation.

1. I just wanted to address a few things I've seen in replies. In no way am I saying we shouldn't do anything. Of course we need security as it can minimalize damage. It's just... disheartening when I watch the media and see people interviewing and clinging to the idea of safety and security as if it's an end all be all. As if having more security guards and bomb dogs is actually going to do something extra.

2. When I said that these people have been outlasted by our society.. I'm not blaming everyone for what is happening, I'm just stating a fact. People fall into the hands of gangs.. cults.. and radical organizations when they feel they have no one to turn to... if they feel unimportant.. or without a purpose. It's a dark place. It sucks that it happens, and it's inevitable in any society for there to be outcasts.

3. I really wish we could separate Islam from this. The reason I say it is because it's omen of the largest religions in the world.. and the 3% of the followers that can't interpret it properly make the other 97% look bad.

4. If the whole point of terrorism is to impose fear... if we stop sesarionalizing it and we stop plastering it everywhere.. maybe it will be subdued.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Xtrozero

The only way to defeat a monster is being a bigger, meaner monster.

I rally don't want our society to surrender to these cowards.

We smashed Iraq and Libya for nothing. Kids are dying daily (not only in Manchester) because of our actions. Aren't we already bigger monsters ?

originally posted by: ErrorErrorError

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Xtrozero

The only way to defeat a monster is being a bigger, meaner monster.

I rally don't want our society to surrender to these cowards.

We smashed Iraq and Libya for nothing. Kids are dying daily (not only in Manchester) because of our actions. Aren't we already bigger monsters ?

We?

I don't know about you, but I havent killed anyone.

This sort of rationalization is dangerous and circular.

Lets take it to another step. Is a person that lives in Isis controlled territory and maybe gives them crops because he had to, but has never personally had violence on anyone a monster?

If you think know, then why would a regular citizen in a western country be responsible.

So instead of getting into convoluted, philosophical areas I will just say no, we (as in us havig this discussion) are not bigger monsters than the people that bombed a chhildrens concert.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: dreamingawake

originally posted by: hombero
a reply to: worldstarcountry

Why shouldn't we hate islam? What has it done for me? Nothing. The world? Nothing. Only an ongoing attempt at bringing an antiquated culture to Europe and the West who don't want it.

Science in the medieval Islamic world was the science developed and practised during the Islamic Golden Age under the Abbasid Caliphate (c. 800–1250). Islamic scientific achievements encompassed a wide range of subject areas, especially astronomy, mathematics, and medicine. Other subjects of scientific inquiry included alchemy and chemistry, botany, geography and cartography, ophthalmology, pharmacology, physics, and zoology.

Source

Unfortunately, it seems as if Islam has went backwards compared to many other ideologies and their thoughts on civilization. I am no historian, but I have read that there were attempts at more humanitarian reformations that were forced out through violence.

But I do agree with the spirit of your posts, that there have been significant cultural achievements in the Islamic world.

You know what's crazy about that...

On Facebook a few months ago I saw this video showing a girl presenting herself and her hair and clothes through all the different "eras" (1900.. 20's.. 30's.. 70's etc) in syria...

And it blew my mind. The reason I was blown away was because women's clothing and hairstyles in Syria up until like the late 90's and 2000's was extremely similar if not more modern/progressive than here in the US.

It just shows my ignorance.

I thought the middle East was always like this.. women in shill robes with hair covers etc..

The truth is.. it's fairly modern!

It wasn't like that 30 years ago!

originally posted by: ErrorErrorError

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Xtrozero

The only way to defeat a monster is being a bigger, meaner monster.

I rally don't want our society to surrender to these cowards.

We smashed Iraq and Libya for nothing. Kids are dying daily (not only in Manchester) because of our actions. Aren't we already bigger monsters ?

That's exactly my point! You get It!

Terrorists are people too.

Everyone has their own rationalizations no matter how twisted they are.

I bet you more often than not.. these people that blow themselves up or commit these horrendous acts.. aren't even doing it for the religion.. I bet they were already looking for a reason. Who knows.. may e their parents friends or wives were civilian casualties of a US bomb.

We dehumanize our enemies way too much

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Lucidparadox

First, I agree that if someone wants to hurt people they can always do that in a free society.

However, the way you prevent 2nd generation terrorist is to not let the first generation in to the country in the first place. These people don't assimilate and don't care about human life.

Secured borders is a good thing . But walls will never stop home grown terrorists. They can recruit online or as in the case of the trench coat mafia people with similar hate will get together and feed each others hatred.

originally posted by: Lucidparadox


We dehumanize our enemies way too much

The most recent attack that prompted this thread and others was the specific targeting of young girls at a concert.

Sorry, being concerned about "dehumanizing" these perpetrators is not something I am concerned with.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Lucidparadox

We have to make the consequences of acts of terror so terrible, that those who would do so, change their effing minds.

Until we do that, we will suffer, our society will suffer, innocent men, women and children will continue to suffer.

Not going to work on the ones who kill themselves or the ones that just don't care about their lives at all.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Lucidparadox

This is on the news of the bomber in Manchester being a citizen.

So what is your point?

Try and find a person out of 300+ million non-Muslim in America that would be willing to strap on that nail vest? You are not going to find one.

does it have to be a bomb? These guys killed lots of kids and then themselves. White non-muslim americans. en.wikipedia.org...

But if it has to be about a crazy person blowing them selves up here is one. en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: JDeLattre89

Ladies and gentlemen, there is no defending this. The further back you put security.. the further back the attacks will occur.

That is kind of the point. The farther back the attack occurs, the less the damage occurs. It is a matter of minimizing the effectiveness of the attack.

Best thing to do would be putting cameras in every home and heavily armed cops on every corner. Only then can we feel safe.

/sarc

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: ErrorErrorError

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Xtrozero

The only way to defeat a monster is being a bigger, meaner monster.

I rally don't want our society to surrender to these cowards.

We smashed Iraq and Libya for nothing. Kids are dying daily (not only in Manchester) because of our actions. Aren't we already bigger monsters ?

We?

I don't know about you, but I havent killed anyone.

This sort of rationalization is dangerous and circular.

Lets take it to another step. Is a person that lives in Isis controlled territory and maybe gives them crops because he had to, but has never personally had violence on anyone a monster?

If you think know, then why would a regular citizen in a western country be responsible.

So instead of getting into convoluted, philosophical areas I will just say no, we (as in us havig this discussion) are not bigger monsters than the people that bombed a chhildrens concert.

Who voted on Bush & Blair twice ? Who elected and supported governments that smashed Iraq and Libya ? A person that lives in isis controlled area and gives them crops does it out of fear, but he doesent want them there. Isis is only there because we made a power vacuum after removing Saddam and Gaddafi, even blair admits it.
But i dont expect you to agree with me. Its just pathetic that people blame every muslim for isis yet you don't take responsibility for the atrocities your governmets have done even though you put them in office in first place.

originally posted by: hombero
a reply to: worldstarcountry

Why shouldn't we hate islam? What has it done for me? Nothing. The world? Nothing. Only an ongoing attempt at bringing an antiquated culture to Europe and the West who don't want it.

Islam brought us lots of good things. en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: ErrorErrorError

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: ErrorErrorError

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Xtrozero

The only way to defeat a monster is being a bigger, meaner monster.

I rally don't want our society to surrender to these cowards.

We smashed Iraq and Libya for nothing. Kids are dying daily (not only in Manchester) because of our actions. Aren't we already bigger monsters ?

We?

I don't know about you, but I havent killed anyone.

This sort of rationalization is dangerous and circular.

Lets take it to another step. Is a person that lives in Isis controlled territory and maybe gives them crops because he had to, but has never personally had violence on anyone a monster?

If you think know, then why would a regular citizen in a western country be responsible.

So instead of getting into convoluted, philosophical areas I will just say no, we (as in us havig this discussion) are not bigger monsters than the people that bombed a chhildrens concert.

Who voted on Bush & Blair twice ? Who elected and supported governments that smashed Iraq and Libya ? A person that lives in isis controlled area and gives them crops does it out of fear, but he doesent want them there. Isis is only there because we made a power vacuum after removing Saddam and Gaddafi, even blair admits it.
But i dont expect you to agree with me. Its just pathetic that people blame every muslim for isis yet you don't take responsibility for the atrocities your governmets have done even though you put them in office in first place.

Who is blaming "every Muslim". Whoever is is insane.

I didn't vote for Bush or blair. In noticed you left war monger Obama of the=at list, I ddn't vote for him either.

And believe it or not those politicians and most have very low approval rates.

The person n a Isis controlled area may not even do so out of fear, he just has no power to change who is in charge.

This is not to say that we do not bear some responsibility for the actions of our elected leaders.

But we are not worse than the people that killed those children.