The Left kills children by letting Terrorists in the UK Terror Attack should be a Wake Up Call

a reply to: UKTruth

I will relay a tale told to me by a former social worker, back in the 1990's when a Indian Immigrant lady of about twenty years British residence (not Islamic - Hindu) brought her mother over on a flight from India (no visa she just brought her in and that was not so heavily policed back then and being the age of political correctness people were afraid of stepping out of line), she demanded full benefit's and disability for her mother whom remember had never been a British resident and never paid into the system, this former social worker told me they gave it to her - not because she was entitled but because they were frightened of losing there job's and of all the red tape that would be kicked up if they refused her.
Sadly that is not isolated, now think on how they abused the system, how that fostered a disrespect of it and of us.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: UKTruth

These people are cowards. They are killers and cowards that lack even the basic shreds of humanity.

They should be looked upon with only disgust.

That they are. It makes me ill to hear people shift focus to age old geopolitical issues to dampen down just how disgusting there radical terrorists are.

a reply to: LABTECH767

I didn't miss the point. Can you imagine a world where nobody has the ability to kill others? What would that look like?

That's what you're asking for, and the truth is it doesn't exist. Hateful people have been killing innocent people for probably a hundred thousand years, and there is little likelihood yours or anyone else's knee jerk reactions are going to magically fix a problem that is inherent in our biology.

What happens when every Muslim is locked in their own solitary confinement cell? What happens next when a white Christian person commits a terror attack against some group? Are we to become a world where every human being is isolated and unable to interact so that no more people run the risk of being killed in a terrorist attack?

Terrorism is about making a group afraid. Right now, most of the folks in this thread are just that, and are being controlled through that fear to empower more terrorists (since their gut instincts is to hit back - an action that creates new generations of terrorists).


What happened is abhorrent and ultimately tragic, but legal gun purchases account for orders of magnitude more innocent children being killed than what just happened in Manchester, and i'd bet many of those foaming at the mouth to drop some bombs on some Muslims or lock up every Muslim are eerily quite when it comes to gun control and limiting firearms in general.

The only way to fight terrorism is through peace and love (or did Jesus say smite your enemies with thine MOAB?). Terrorist recruit and exist in places where the standard of life is abysmal (not to say they don't recruit from other more developed nations, but in far fewer numbers). If our military dollars were spent building the infrastructures and supporting these areas for the next 100 years, we would create a fellow developed nation with citizens who loved life and peace as much as we do. Until then, we'll continue to bomb the crap out of them and wage proxy wars in their countries, keeping them miserable, keeping them afraid and powerless, so that the only action they feel they can take is to fight back, and the only way they can do that is through terrorism.

a reply to: Wayfarer

You make good point's and I want to feel like that but the truth is what was pointed out by Taggart, most of those dangerous to us have grown up in the west far more privileged than they would have been in there ethnic homeland, in part it is because being of two cultures they naturally feel alienated to the culture that exists outside there own homes and community's, government's failed to integrate them by allowing them to form community rather than forcing them to disperse into our society's when they entered our nation's and in those community's which are in many cases like other country's with there own illegal shariah court's and dominant imported tradition's, often even many not speaking a word of our language radicalism has flowered like a weed run rampant.
Jesus said Cast not your pearl before swine.

a reply to: UKTruth

Right now, i am just absolutely sick of this situation.

This is the only part of your post which has the slightest honesty and meaning to it, and I heartily and thoroughly agree with it.

What you have to understand, is that solutions do not exist to problems like this, not in the way we think of them. We think of solutions as pro-active, immediately effective, and permanent. That, with respect, has never been a way to build or maintain peace.

If we want peace, we must pull ALL resources out of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, all our intelligence assets hidden within ISIS as part of its command structure, all our proxy commanders in Syria who are fighting the Russians and Assad. We must withdraw our special forces from all operations in the Middle East, refuse to involve ourselves in the region in any way, shape or form. We must conserve and reserve all armed forces for defence ONLY of THIS soil, the soil upon which I am standing, not any foreign or far off place. We must treat our citizens, no matter what religion they profess to, with decency and respect, and be an example to other nations of how to coexist.

We must also prevent businesses in our country from trading with ANY of the oil producing nations in the Middle East at all, just a full and total removal of all business done from those nations, toward ours, or ours toward theirs. No oil, no plastics, no purchases of any goods nor sale thereof, including most importantly, arms sales in any direction which might, either by direct means or by convoluted ones, wind up with arms we sold, getting into the hands of anyone in the Middle East, be it governments or radical groups.

We should deploy our intelligence assets to track all threat pathways, and deal with those threats TOTALLY SILENTLY! No press, no fanfare, no record. Be that threat elsewhere in the world, or right at home, the most important thing is that the hand which takes threats off the board is utterly invisible, unidentifiable, flawless, perfect, without the slightest tactical or strategic weakness. It must be utterly untrackable, but be able to track anyone and anything, anywhere, all relying only on probable cause, not data centre crap from those traitors at GCHQ.

That is a recipe for peace, which takes a while to come out of the oven, needs careful mixing and attentive baking, but does have a significant advantage set over previously attempted methods. First, its never been tried. We have not been doing that in the least since these things became an issue. Second, unlike the preferred, active, angry, violent methods that other people have been proposing, it has a damned sight more chance of actually affecting positive change. With our military forces deployed only to our borders, or against actual military threats (rather than asymmetric warfare tacticians who cannot be ousted by main strength anyway, and whose death cannot be caused without unacceptably high collateral cost), there would be no way for the terrorists of tomorrow to justify to themselves a strike against us, and no way for their neighbours to look the other way without being moved to act to stop it.

When the terrorists cannot move for good deeds on our part, helpful absence of our influence over their nations by way of deals with other Middle Eastern nations, when we do not trade our arms to them, when we no longer supply them with anything, they will starve and they will vanish, leaving only people who did not rely on dodgy deals and violence as their main method of employment. It will take time, it will not involve actions you can SEE, but it will be damned sight more effective than a renewed military campaign in the Middle East.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Wayfarer
most of those dangerous to us have grown up in the west far more privileged than they would have been in there ethnic homeland

I'm not really sure how you or 'Taggart' came to that conclusion. Is there any evidence to support that claim? I'm not implying you're wrong but I have never heard that before.



I could equally make the argument that by forcing people to assimilate you give them just as much reason to 'hate' and 'fight back' against the culture/nation forcing them to assimilate.

Rather, as I mentioned above, I think it much more likely that those disenfranchised individuals in developed countries are in fact becoming terrorists through a combination of isolation effects, mental/psychological issues, and lack of support that engender them to a terrorist message/ideology.

Terrorism won't be defeated/eradicated in a very very long time (until we 'evolve' out of the triggers that enable it, so a half million years..). We need to stop treating terrorism like a conventional enemy that we fight back against, and start applying our effort and resources to making people who would potentially become terrorists as happy, healthy, and secure as us (we who wouldn't consider terrorism as a viable solution ever).

originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: TruMcCarthy

Islam might be a "danger" to the west...

But the west actually invades and destroyed their nations.
We utterly obliterated them.

We are so much more dangerous, especially since anytime we kill them we are morally justified.
Anytime they get mad it isn't because we are hypocrites it's definitely just because of their religion.

And THAT right there folks is the PRIME example of why we are in the mess we are in.

I give you, the MUSLIM APOLOGIST!

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: Stevemagegod

Never let the death of little kids go without gaining a little partisan capital.

So, continue on with the left policy if doing nothing if it mifgt hurt feelings then. Got it.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Wow what a write up Totally agree on most of your idea, especially the insanity of behind the scenes attempt at overthrowing Assad who is the one hope for Christians in their heartland of the Middle East. Totally effin nuts on the leaders of the west.

a reply to: Tempter

No sir, you and people like you are the reason we are in this mess. I'll bet you believe it best to hit kids who hit other kids to teach them hitting is wrong, eh?

And he wasn't apologizing for Muslims, he was stating that we have done and continue to do awful things to these people (killing them in far greater numbers) and sicko's like you think that's jolly good and justified.

There is a time and a place for everything under the sun.

Now is not the time to pussyfoot around with these criminals, barbarians, and evildoers. They have been allowed to live for too long and spread their hateful ideology. "If only we gave them milk and cookies"..."If only they had more love shown to them"..."If only we stopped wearing strapless tops and short shorts"...."If only we covered our women up with hijabs"...."If only we stopped supporting our Jewish friends and allies"....

There will always be demands by these ideologues that have fanaticism and hate as their only motive.

Irradicate, don't placate!

"Drive them out! Drive them out of your places of worship. Drive them out of your communities. Drive them out of your holy land and drive them out of this earth,"....Donald Trump

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: Tempter

No sir, you and people like you are the reason we are in this mess. I'll bet you believe it best to hit kids who hit other kids to teach them hitting is wrong, eh?

And he wasn't apologizing for Muslims, he was stating that we have done and continue to do awful things to these people (killing them in far greater numbers) and sicko's like you think that's jolly good and justified.

"Doing awful things" like:

1) eradicate murderous leaders and their regimes

2) Sacrifice our own lives to help train theirs to police and secure

3) Try to bring about a democracy so they can have peace and prosperity

We're so awful!

It's not our fault these DESCENDANTS and FRIENDS of terrorists go on to fight like their murderous parents.

If you can't see a difference in what we do with good intentions VS the INTENTIONAL murder of innocent children, you are lost.

To understand this problem you need to understand Islam and the history of Islam. It is the main cause. Attacking and killing infidels is nothing new, Islam and it's followers have been doing it for 1400 odd years. The only difference today is the weapons instead of swords and spears today it's explosives, AKs and trucks.
The muslim world has been trying to conquer Europe for a thousand years and has invaded many times over the centuries, christianity and europe are the old enemy.
You really need to take a step back and look at the big picture, this century is just an episode in the history. All the PC peace love crud won't change any of that.
Not PC I know but fact is you can't import muslims by the hundred thousand into non muslim countries and not have severe consequences, this is one of the consequences.
Numerous polls have shown a large support for terrorists among muslims. This is probably the new normal for europe...

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: UKTruth

Right now, i am just absolutely sick of this situation.

This is the only part of your post which has the slightest honesty and meaning to it, and I heartily and thoroughly agree with it.

What you have to understand, is that solutions do not exist to problems like this, not in the way we think of them. We think of solutions as pro-active, immediately effective, and permanent. That, with respect, has never been a way to build or maintain peace.

If we want peace, we must pull ALL resources out of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, all our intelligence assets hidden within ISIS as part of its command structure, all our proxy commanders in Syria who are fighting the Russians and Assad. We must withdraw our special forces from all operations in the Middle East, refuse to involve ourselves in the region in any way, shape or form. We must conserve and reserve all armed forces for defence ONLY of THIS soil, the soil upon which I am standing, not any foreign or far off place. We must treat our citizens, no matter what religion they profess to, with decency and respect, and be an example to other nations of how to coexist.

We must also prevent businesses in our country from trading with ANY of the oil producing nations in the Middle East at all, just a full and total removal of all business done from those nations, toward ours, or ours toward theirs. No oil, no plastics, no purchases of any goods nor sale thereof, including most importantly, arms sales in any direction which might, either by direct means or by convoluted ones, wind up with arms we sold, getting into the hands of anyone in the Middle East, be it governments or radical groups.

We should deploy our intelligence assets to track all threat pathways, and deal with those threats TOTALLY SILENTLY! No press, no fanfare, no record. Be that threat elsewhere in the world, or right at home, the most important thing is that the hand which takes threats off the board is utterly invisible, unidentifiable, flawless, perfect, without the slightest tactical or strategic weakness. It must be utterly untrackable, but be able to track anyone and anything, anywhere, all relying only on probable cause, not data centre crap from those traitors at GCHQ.

That is a recipe for peace, which takes a while to come out of the oven, needs careful mixing and attentive baking, but does have a significant advantage set over previously attempted methods. First, its never been tried. We have not been doing that in the least since these things became an issue. Second, unlike the preferred, active, angry, violent methods that other people have been proposing, it has a damned sight more chance of actually affecting positive change. With our military forces deployed only to our borders, or against actual military threats (rather than asymmetric warfare tacticians who cannot be ousted by main strength anyway, and whose death cannot be caused without unacceptably high collateral cost), there would be no way for the terrorists of tomorrow to justify to themselves a strike against us, and no way for their neighbours to look the other way without being moved to act to stop it.

When the terrorists cannot move for good deeds on our part, helpful absence of our influence over their nations by way of deals with other Middle Eastern nations, when we do not trade our arms to them, when we no longer supply them with anything, they will starve and they will vanish, leaving only people who did not rely on dodgy deals and violence as their main method of employment. It will take time, it will not involve actions you can SEE, but it will be damned sight more effective than a renewed military campaign in the Middle East.

I see your thinking and I actually think it would have been a good route maybe 30-40 years ago.

One problem now is that your solution will take decades to 'come out of the oven', but more importantly you are assuming that these terrorists think like you do. You seem to believe that they will care if they can justify themselves to the world community. That's a big flaw in your solution in my view. What the root cause of the initial animus was is almost irrelevant now. The motivation right now is religious fanaticism. That is not going to change if we pull out of their countries or stop buying their oil or trading with them.

IN terms of the military, how can they just be at our borders? Are you saying that organisations like NATO should not be able to deploy joint forces on foreign lands? No trade and no military coordination sounds like isolationism to me.

There is a clear and present danger to deal with.

You are playing the long game, I see that, but you can't possibly have any substantiated confidence that it would solve the issue. In the meantime innocent people, including citizens of this country, are going to die. Immigration restriction, deportations and tougher sentencing would still apply as a short term set of measures, even if the long game was appropriate.

Your intelligence solution sounds like complete and total access to our information... I don't think that is needed. Rather I would deploy it to the Muslim community as that is where the problem lies.

And please remember folks, the terrorists have 2 objectives here.


1) To kill and create terror.

2) To turn the West against all Muslims, thus creating more division and extremism.


I, for one, don't want to give the terrorists what they want.

a reply to: Tempter

Is that the best you can do? Doing awful things like 'blah blah blah we baked them cookies how could you think we're awful?'.

Are you so irreparably obtuse that your brain is incapable of parsing the harm that comes with our (seemingly altruistic) actions?

If your list is the summation of 'awful things' you can think of, then you have drunk the cool-aid and are wallowing in a pit of your own ignorance when it comes to how things have actually transpired in these places we've meddled.

Yes, we do lots of good things, and we do even more things with good intentions (but invariably bad results). We also do crap like accidentally bomb a school/hospital. Do you think the parents of a kid blown up because F&%K Yeah America! mindset to solving issues invariable killed their innocent child should be wallowing thankfully in front of us for all the good we've done? Or do you think maybe those same parents might be considering terrorist actions against us for all the good we did them?

OP what do you want???

A Travel ban would not have stopped this because the bomber was a British national.

Do you understand then how utterly stupid it is to say that a travel ban would have prevented this??

I really hate how after something like this happens ATS descends into a racist cesspit. And yes in the context of UK law quite a bit of this would be arguably racist.

The only way you will ever 100% stop terrorists is if you lock up the entire population 24/7 with no access to the outside world.

This stupid argument of "Send them all back to their own countries" is so stupid i cannot believe it even exists.

And its not a left vs right issue is a right vs wrong issue terrorism is wrong and terrorists dont give to shakes of a cats tail if you vote right or left.

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: Tempter

Is that the best you can do? Doing awful things like 'blah blah blah we baked them cookies how could you think we're awful?'.

Are you so irreparably obtuse that your brain is incapable of parsing the harm that comes with our (seemingly altruistic) actions?

If your list is the summation of 'awful things' you can think of, then you have drunk the cool-aid and are wallowing in a pit of your own ignorance when it comes to how things have actually transpired in these places we've meddled.

Yes, we do lots of good things, and we do even more things with good intentions (but invariably bad results). We also do crap like accidentally bomb a school/hospital. Do you think the parents of a kid blown up because F&%K Yeah America! mindset to solving issues invariable killed their innocent child should be wallowing thankfully in front of us for all the good we've done? Or do you think maybe those same parents might be considering terrorist actions against us for all the good we did them?

Again, Muslim apologist, we might accidentally bomb a mosque with kids in it from time to time (in a war zone, which the kids were probably put there last minute) and they are INTENTIONALLY targeting our kids.

It's ignorant of you to think these are equal things.

OP another question you said this:

The Lefts Policies have failed. Children are dead and missing in the latest terror attack. The Judges Blocking Trumps Travel Ban need to take a good long hard look in the mirror. And ask themselves:

Using that same logic is it not also about time then that those same judges looked at banning guns in America after all the kids who turn up to school almost every week only to get shot in the head because of your utterly stupid gun laws???

just saying.

originally posted by: Stevemagegod

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: Stevemagegod

Never let the death of little kids go without gaining a little partisan capital.

That awkward moment when you realize there hasn't been any major terror attacks in America since Trump's Policies have taken effect.

Nor prior. The last terror attack of any kind was 9/11. Trump didn't magically stop terrorism in the U.S. because it did not exist. Can hardly take credit for something that already was not occurring.

Also many of these attacks are by citizens, just like the one last night. Even if Trump's -desired- policy was in place in Manchester, it would have done nothing to stop the attack. The title of this thread is a pathetic attempt to debase an ideology you don't agree with. How about some intellectual honesty, instead of this tripe we keep getting?