Loud Bangs heard in Manchester UK

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: ARM1968

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: ARM1968
Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

This is out of context .

Then put it in context for us. That would be helpful.

It's talking about a war situation ;

You wouldn't take friends from enemy " ranks " [i.e an army ] ; turned renegades [ from the opposing army ] are slayed because if they betray their own , what would they do to you ? and definetely do not befirend them or get helpers from them .

The story behind this Sura is that bunch of muslims lied to Muhammed and joined up with his enemies to attack a muslim caravan on the way to damascus and muslims of the Caravan hadn't learnt that they were facing ex-muslims ; they thought the people who attacked them were still muslims so they started to debate amongs themselves as to what to do with these people i.e kill them or forgive them .

Sura is not applicable to anyone but a specific grup of people in 7th century Arabia who were deemed Kafir .

Kafirs have always hurt muslims thru out history so this Sura at it's most is applicable to those who wishes ill to muslims and islam .

This is about self defence and pre-warning .

Certainly not a call for muslims to go out and kill innocent people.

Thank you.

If you really are Muslim perhaps you could honestly answer the following.

Is it ok in your opinion to attack and threaten those who draw cartoons of Muhammad?

Is it ok in your opinion to follow the word of a man who had a seven year old wife and who had sexual relations with her and others.

Why do the majority of Muslims wish to see Sharia law implemented?

Why do Muslims believe in honour killings?

Why do Muslims wish to see the destruction of Israel?

Why do Muslims think it ok to murder Muslims of different persuasions?

Why do Muslims believe that everyone should follow Islam?

Why do Muslims not integrate?

Why is it ok for Muslims to burn bibles but not for others to burn Korans? After all, your prophet more or less copied the bible.

Why is it that the vast majority of world terrorism is perpetrated by Muslims?

I await your response.

Incidentally I have never found Sihks, Hindus, B'hais, Jayns, buddhists, Jews or Christians, or many other faiths for that matter, an issue. None of them promote the violence we see done in the name of Islam. You should reflect.

originally posted by: ARM1968

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: ARM1968

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: ARM1968
Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

This is out of context .

Then put it in context for us. That would be helpful.

It's talking about a war situation ;

You wouldn't take friends from enemy " ranks " [i.e an army ] ; turned renegades [ from the opposing army ] are slayed because if they betray their own , what would they do to you ? and definetely do not befirend them or get helpers from them .

The story behind this Sura is that bunch of muslims lied to Muhammed and joined up with his enemies to attack a muslim caravan on the way to damascus and muslims of the Caravan hadn't learnt that they were facing ex-muslims ; they thought the people who attacked them were still muslims so they started to debate amongs themselves as to what to do with these people i.e kill them or forgive them .

Sura is not applicable to anyone but a specific grup of people in 7th century Arabia who were deemed Kafir .

Kafirs have always hurt muslims thru out history so this Sura at it's most is applicable to those who wishes ill to muslims and islam .

This is about self defence and pre-warning .

Certainly not a call for muslims to go out and kill innocent people.

Thank you.

If you really are Muslim perhaps you could honestly answer the following.

Is it ok in your opinion to attack and threaten those who draw cartoons of Muhammad?

Kuran tells muslims to walk away from those who insult Islam. Nowhere in Kuran a muslim is told to go and kill someone who takes the mickey out of Islam .
What you are confused here is about Nationalistic Cultural influence passed as Islam .
Don't blame you , even muslims are guilty of same ignorance. But Islam doesn't mean what you think it is

Is it ok in your opinion to follow the word of a man who had a seven year old wife and who had sexual relations with her and others.

She was his loyal wife to day he died and in those days everyone [ including your own ancestors ] practiced the same thing .
If a girl was menstrating she was ready for a marriage ; you'll find that this was the attitude of ALL humans at the time so judging Muhammed selectively is not an honest act .
Furthermore , Girl in question outlived Muhammed and never spoke an ill word of him , He died in her lap , literally .
Muhammed was an helpfull husband and thru out their marriage he shared in the household chores and asked muslims to do the same .
He never let her do his washing but always washed his clothes .
Following Muhammed's death , muslims also got corrupted and reverted back to their Cultural Pre-Islamic ways in Arabia when it came to treating females as equals .
In Islam the Heaven is to be found at the bottom of mother's feet ; does that sound like a religion that classes women as 2.class human being ?


Why do the majority of Muslims wish to see Sharia law implemented?

Usury is the main reason but I doubt most muslims would be able to pin it down .


Why do Muslims believe in honour killings?

They don't believe in it . It's a Cultural Tradition which predates Islam and crosses over religions .

Why do Muslims wish to see the destruction of Israel?

Most muslims wish to see the end of Usury on Earth and it is only possible when Temple abuse ends I suppose .

Jesus would also ask for the destruction of Israel if he was alive or there are many Jews who also wants the destruction of Israel too .
Ironically my village in Israel lives in peace with Jews and appreciates them as Human beings too .


Why do Muslims think it ok to murder Muslims of different persuasions?

Again , this fallacy is not Islamic nor unique to Islam ; you might as well ask why Christians or Jews have the same attitude .

Why do Muslims believe that everyone should follow Islam?

For their Salvation . Muslims is obliged to carry the Message of Allah ; after Muslim delivered the Message ; the job is done .
There is no compulsion in Islam at all and that is historically evident fact .

Why do Muslims not integrate?

Entegration into a Godless and Nihilistic World doesn't work for them I suppose but my experience of integration is not same as yours ; I see that most muslims entegrate and pay taxes while privately practicing their religion .
Why is it ok for Muslims to burn bibles but not for others to burn Korans? After all, your prophet more or less copied the bible.

The Logic behind is that the Bible were altered thus it's no longer the Word of Allah but Kuran isn't altered and still is the Allah's Word .
Muhammed didn't know how to read and write untill he was 39 years old - it wasn't a requirement in those days - He was so trust worthy and respected that the community he lived gave him a middle name " Emin " ; meaning trutsworthy and reliable .
I fear that your information is not accurate on this subject matter .


Why is it that the vast majority of world terrorism is perpetrated by Muslims?

It isn't because ISIS doesn't represent muslims and everyone knows that they are working to advance Greater Israel Project , successfully so far .


I await your response.

Incidentally I have never found Sihks, Hindus, B'hais, Jayns, buddhists, Jews or Christians, or many other faiths for that matter, an issue. None of them promote the violence we see done in the name of Islam. You should reflect.

Oh boy !! I can give enough links to pcs of murdered muslims at the hands of Christians in Africa or Budhists in Asia but I'll spare you the agony .
Christians have been bombing muslims almost every week for last 20 years ; I am curious whether do you regard a Western Jet bombing innocent civilians as terrorism too ?

I have given you the War Code that Muhammed left for Muslims to follow ; please re-read it and find out the differen between what islam says and what you believe it says .
You unfortunately believe in a dehumanised and cartoonised version of Muhammed not the real guy ; it must be evident reading his instructions to muslims warriors .
Hope you are as honest with your answers .

a reply to: ARM1968

Aye ok then

you clearly have never been to Belfast

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: ARM1968

Aye ok then

you clearly have never been to Belfast

Oh but I have. I served there twice.

It appears from the answers above that your are in complete denial and are simply using ISIS etc as a shield. They are simply the latest iteration of cartoon terrorists and are not what I am talking about at all.

I am talking about your average Muslim. Unfortunately you are promoting a false ideal which is not evident amongst the general Muslim population. You are also twisting and turning and trying to play on general ignorance of the Koran.

This will continue and will only get worse. It will only ever improve when your average Muslim decides to grow up, stop making pathetic excuses and see the truth of their own flawed religion.

I imagine this will not happen and excuses will continue until the tick is buried too deep to remove, which is the aim.

And I will answer any and all questions honestly. Ask away.

originally posted by: kerrichin

originally posted by: Azureblue

originally posted by: szino9

originally posted by: Azureblue
a reply to: UpIsNowDown

www.dailymail.co.uk...

No, police thinks the suspect did a practice run few days ago .....odd that they seem to have intel on the suspect so quickly. Just heard on the TV in the other room, they know his name also. Sad really because it fits the FF pattern.

Kurt Haskel, the US bloke, a lawyer, who was an innocent but involved by stander in the Christmas Day Bomer (I think it was) when talking to Vinny Eastwood on radio came up with these signs of a false flag:

They get extensive media coverage
They leave identification
High powered weapons are used
The assailant shouts out ali barber
They have ties to isis
There is some sort manifesto on the internet
The attack is in a public place public transport
There is usually no motive at all
The perpetrator rarely survives or will have a show trail
The media calls for new laws to protect the public
The event is used as an excuse to bomb a nation usually in the middle east where the major powers have strategic interests, as in oil ora close relationship with Israel.

From: Vinny-Eastwood-Kert Haskell August 2016

just listening to skynews and guess what he had id on him on top of being dead, isis associating themselves with him, extensive media coverage. seems this list isbeing ticked off

Sad ole world then uncaring, callous, ambitious, aresehole sucm bag killers get their hands on political power and have the gumption to carry hidious, cruel sadistic killings like this for just a bit more power and the satification of being able to mould society to their own design.

a reply to: ARM1968

So you are saying that christians in Belfast arent as violent towards each other through sectarian violence , that they didnt blow each other up women and children and they didnt kill each other on the streets of belfast ?

you were there so was it all just bull# then aye ?

cus I have friends and family in belfast and their experiences are telling me that christians of different denominations dont get along and are extremely violent towards each other and have been for a long time .
That still spills onto the streets here in Scotland when they get to carried away with themselves

People of the abrahamic faiths all fight amongst themselves its history

I know alot of muslims and have many muslim friends and they live quite happily alongside us in Glasgow
and there are never any extreme forms of islam in scotland , and if there are they are sent from England or the continent to carry out whatever orders they have. They are never home grown , at least I havent heard of any in Scotland
(not to say they dont exist , they are just very rare and never broadcast to the public)

Ive also asked my muslim friends what the deal is with infidels and they have never been taught that growing up in mosques in scotland
so its just another form of domination for the caliphate and which ever mullah or cleric wants to assert their power over other muslims and infidels , its not islam though is it ?

a reply to: ARM1968

So what I am asking also is , you are saying that my muslim friends are going to turn on me and their friends at some point because thats their religion is it, they are just biding their time ?

Aye ok

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: ARM1968

So what I am asking also is , you are saying that my muslim friends are going to turn on me and their friends at some point because thats their religion is it, they are just biding their time ?

Aye ok

Ultimately yes

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: ARM1968

So you are saying that christians in Belfast arent as violent towards each other through sectarian violence , that they didnt blow each other up women and children and they didnt kill each other on the streets of belfast ?

you were there so was it all just bull# then aye ?

cus I have friends and family in belfast and their experiences are telling me that christians of different denominations dont get along and are extremely violent towards each other and have been for a long time .
That still spills onto the streets here in Scotland when they get to carried away with themselves

People of the abrahamic faiths all fight amongst themselves its history

I know alot of muslims and have many muslim friends and they live quite happily alongside us in Glasgow
and there are never any extreme forms of islam in scotland , and if there are they are sent from England or the continent to carry out whatever orders they have. They are never home grown , at least I havent heard of any in Scotland
(not to say they dont exist , they are just very rare and never broadcast to the public)

Ive also asked my muslim friends what the deal is with infidels and they have never been taught that growing up in mosques in scotland
so its just another form of domination for the caliphate and which ever mullah or cleric wants to assert their power over other muslims and infidels , its not islam though is it ?

The sectarian violence in Ireland was bad, yes and spilled into England for very specific reasons. Never did you see these acts taken to the streets of France, the trains of Spain, embassy's in Africa, planes in the USA. I could go on.

Give me the official death toll for the troubles. More slain this year alone by Muslims than in the entire troubles - I am counting inter Muslim violence in the Middle East as well.

The troubles were bad but it did not see Catholics turning on protestants outside of NI. It was not a wider movement.

I'm not against anyone but I am against stupidity and it is utter stupidity to turn your face away from the truth of Islam. One day I hope it truly is a religion of peace and tolerance, but it is not that now and perhaps never can be.

a reply to: ARM1968

So you're saying that my friends ive known for more than ten years are going to kill me one day ?

hahahaha do you know how stupid that is ?

my friend is a school teacher and his son isnt muslim , so he is going to kill his wife and his son , and all the kids he teaches

dont you realise how silly that is ?

to say that every muslim is one day going to turn on us , is ridiculous

originally posted by: ARM1968

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: ARM1968

So what I am asking also is , you are saying that my muslim friends are going to turn on me and their friends at some point because thats their religion is it, they are just biding their time ?

Aye ok

Ultimately yes

Wow !!!

And I took you for a genuine concerned individual ; it turns out that you actually live in la-la-land .

a reply to: ARM1968

People like you make peace one hundred times less likely than it is currently, because you do what the terrorists want. You allow division to enter into communities, through your weakness and deliberate ignorance. How you can stand to look at yourself in the mirror in the morning is an absolute mystery to me.

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: ARM1968

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: ARM1968

So what I am asking also is , you are saying that my muslim friends are going to turn on me and their friends at some point because thats their religion is it, they are just biding their time ?

Aye ok

Ultimately yes

Wow !!!

And I took you for a genuine concerned individual ; it turns out that you actually live in la-la-land .

I live in the real world where real problems confront us. I don't live with my head in a bucket of sand that has been placed there for me.

Have you read anything I've said? Yes, I know it is unpopular in this current age of 'tolerance' to point to problems, but there you are. If La la land was a place where there is no Muslim terrorism then I'd happily live there - along with peaceable Muslims and all other faiths.

Why are you people so afraid of the truth?

Oh and sapien, I did not say they will kill you. That's a little pathetic. What is the Muslim population density where you live?

I understand all of you who don't like what I have to say. I don't like it either. But it is the truth.

Islam is a faith of expansion and violence. Look at it as a global whole, not isolated incidents of idiots like ISIS.

Like I say, live and let live, but if you cannot then there is no place for you in the civilised world.

Those who would like to rubbish what I have to say, have you given your own time to work across the globe for the benefit of people from every faith and none? I doubt it. You speak from a parochial perspective with limited grasp of the broader picture. I have seen the broader picture which is why I'm trying to explain the dangers to you.

If you don't wish to listen then fine, no problem. No need for insults and silly attempts to undermine. You go your way and I'll go mine. The world will spin on heedless of our differences and people will continue to die across its surface beneath the flag of Islam.

If I'm wrong then happy days.

originally posted by: ARM1968

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: ARM1968

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: ARM1968

So what I am asking also is , you are saying that my muslim friends are going to turn on me and their friends at some point because thats their religion is it, they are just biding their time ?

Aye ok

Ultimately yes

Wow !!!

And I took you for a genuine concerned individual ; it turns out that you actually live in la-la-land .

I live in the real world where real problems confront us. I don't live with my head in a bucket of sand that has been placed there for me.

Have you read anything I've said? Yes, I know it is unpopular in this current age of 'tolerance' to point to problems, but there you are. If La la land was a place where there is no Muslim terrorism then I'd happily live there - along with peaceable Muslims and all other faiths.

Why are you people so afraid of the truth?

Oh and sapien, I did not say they will kill you. That's a little pathetic. What is the Muslim population density where you live?

I understand all of you who don't like what I have to say. I don't like it either. But it is the truth.

Islam is a faith of expansion and violence. Look at it as a global whole, not isolated incidents of idiots like ISIS.

Like I say, live and let live, but if you cannot then there is no place for you in the civilised world.

Those who would like to rubbish what I have to say, have you given your own time to work across the globe for the benefit of people from every faith and none? I doubt it. You speak from a parochial perspective with limited grasp of the broader picture. I have seen the broader picture which is why I'm trying to explain the dangers to you.

If you don't wish to listen then fine, no problem. No need for insults and silly attempts to undermine. You go your way and I'll go mine. The world will spin on heedless of our differences and people will continue to die across its surface beneath the flag of Islam.

If I'm wrong then happy days.

You are wrong , factually and categorically ; you know why ?

I live with Christian & Jewish minorities in an overwhelming muslim majority and this has been the case for last 500 years .

Just because ISIS tells you some sh1te and you buy it so we all need to forget about 500 years of multi religious and multi cultural existence ?

I don't think so .

The meme below you is not designed by me and if it was I would have not used the word " stupid " but nevertheless it does convey the sentiment .



and also you may take this one with you too :

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: ARM1968

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: ARM1968

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: ARM1968

So what I am asking also is , you are saying that my muslim friends are going to turn on me and their friends at some point because thats their religion is it, they are just biding their time ?

Aye ok

Ultimately yes

Wow !!!

And I took you for a genuine concerned individual ; it turns out that you actually live in la-la-land .

I live in the real world where real problems confront us. I don't live with my head in a bucket of sand that has been placed there for me.

Have you read anything I've said? Yes, I know it is unpopular in this current age of 'tolerance' to point to problems, but there you are. If La la land was a place where there is no Muslim terrorism then I'd happily live there - along with peaceable Muslims and all other faiths.

Why are you people so afraid of the truth?

Oh and sapien, I did not say they will kill you. That's a little pathetic. What is the Muslim population density where you live?

I understand all of you who don't like what I have to say. I don't like it either. But it is the truth.

Islam is a faith of expansion and violence. Look at it as a global whole, not isolated incidents of idiots like ISIS.

Like I say, live and let live, but if you cannot then there is no place for you in the civilised world.

Those who would like to rubbish what I have to say, have you given your own time to work across the globe for the benefit of people from every faith and none? I doubt it. You speak from a parochial perspective with limited grasp of the broader picture. I have seen the broader picture which is why I'm trying to explain the dangers to you.

If you don't wish to listen then fine, no problem. No need for insults and silly attempts to undermine. You go your way and I'll go mine. The world will spin on heedless of our differences and people will continue to die across its surface beneath the flag of Islam.

If I'm wrong then happy days.

You are wrong , factually and categorically ; you know why ?

I live with Christian & Jewish minorities in an overwhelming muslim majority and this has been the case for last 500 years .

Just because ISIS tells you some sh1te and you buy it so we all need to forget about 500 years of multi religious and multi cultural existence ?

I don't think so .

The meme below you is not designed by me and if it was I would have not used the word " stupid " but nevertheless it does convey the sentiment .

and also you may take this one with you too :

As I have said and will say again, ISIS are not the issue. You could argue that a belief system that allows such fools to grow is an issue though.

As for TrueBrit saying people like me are an obstacle to peace, I couldn't disagree more. I have actively worked for peace in the UK and elsewhere. I have been on the ground in a number of Muslim countries aiding the people in their need.

I am not the obstacle to peace. People who bury their heads and pretend everything is ok are the obstacles.

I tell it how I see it in a context beyond small enclaves or limited personal experiences. If you disagree that is fine by me.

a reply to: TrueBrit

There were already divisions. No need for terrorists to create those. There have always been divisions and probably always will be. Religion culture beliefs politics create divisions

Whilst you're happily calling out ARM1968 for being "weak & ignorant" I wonder just what you're doing other than like the rest of us posting on a forum and preaching to the choir?

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

The honourable member appears to apologise for radical Islamic terrorism by blaming it on the UK/US bombing of 'sandy places'.
I wonder why ISIS kills Yazidis and people who are gay. Surely UK/US bombing in the middle East can't be blamed for that?
I look forward to reading some logical and reasoned explanation.

a reply to: 23432


If indeed you do live in such an enclave, there are few, then this is a model which should be applauded and developed.

On the ground I think the Tanazanian way is pretty laudable and also a model of what might be possible, but it requires a paradigm shift from most Muslim communities which I just don't see happening currently.

I have been involved in interfaith meetings in the U.K. For years in an effort to promote understanding and harmony. Unfortunately on many occasions the Muslim representatives have been marginalised or even ostracised by their communities as a result.

As I say I am no obstacle to peace nor brainwashed by ISIS. These are simple things to throw my way but are wide of the mark.

I am not here as a keyboard warrior peddling division and intolerance. I am here as a realist who knows that the problem needs to be met head on by ALL who oppose Muslim extremism. However you cannot start the process unless you understand how deep that extremism runs and it is nothing to do with the likes of ISIS. Open your eyes people of ALL faiths.

www.bbc.co.uk...

An area of Moss Side in Manchester has been evacuated as part of a search linked to Monday's bomb attack. It comes as police continue their investigation into the bombing, which killed 22 people. The evacuation is a precautionary measure to "ensure everyone's safety" Greater Manchester Police said.

Nothing much else to report as it stands Police have evacuated as a precaution in the ongoing investigation hopefully nothing goes off and they get what ever evidence they are after.

Stay vigilant but defiant UK this is a big weekend with the 2 cup finals and the Great Manchester run going ahead.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

There is no choir here.

There are a bunch of tone deaf, ragged throated peons who have abandoned their critical thinking capacity, and delved down the rabbit hole of witless, myopic, easy solutions to complex problems, solutions which solve nothing, create more problems, and make money for the people who actually instigate these messes in the first place. That cannot continue.