Loud Bangs heard in Manchester UK

originally posted by: Mclaneinc
a reply to: TrueBrit

I totally agree that its suspicious that these people who are under investigation time and time again get to fulfil their Jihad etc while if you pee in a public place on CCTV you will be up in front of the magistrate the next day.

Where we will disagree is that there for me still seems to be a notion to try and include these terrorists with all Muslims when in fact they are BARELY Muslim in their ideology yet the Police seem to want to avoid upsetting ANY Muslim no matter what sort they are.

Can't they just act on the fact they are terrorists first and foremost

Exactly! It appears that the people railing against any slight towards Muslims are the very people who are lumping terrorists in with Muslims!

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: UKTruth

The individual is next door to never unknown to the authorities. That is a rather frustrating and suspicious feature of the vast majority of terror incidents.

We have the most invasive, unchecked, unbalanced, liberty destroying mass surveillance operating in this country, with both our data use and communications tracked by traitorous dogs working for our government, and cameras either private or public owned tracking every move, made by every person, such that a person can only be away from any of it by leaving towns and cities altogether. And yet a person known to the authorities, can somehow get from their house to a concert venue with a bomb, and detonate it?

I find it all very suspicious, because it seems pretty clear to me that if the authorities always know who these people are, then they had a chance to prevent those singular individuals from performing the act in question.

Agreed. It sickens me that this person was known to police and yet he could do the thing he did. How? You would think that the mere act of purchasing equipment for his bomb would have raised a flag... which is why I think he probably had help.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: UKTruth

The individual is next door to never unknown to the authorities. That is a rather frustrating and suspicious feature of the vast majority of terror incidents.

We have the most invasive, unchecked, unbalanced, liberty destroying mass surveillance operating in this country, with both our data use and communications tracked by traitorous dogs working for our government, and cameras either private or public owned tracking every move, made by every person, such that a person can only be away from any of it by leaving towns and cities altogether. And yet a person known to the authorities, can somehow get from their house to a concert venue with a bomb, and detonate it?

I find it all very suspicious, because it seems pretty clear to me that if the authorities always know who these people are, then they had a chance to prevent those singular individuals from performing the act in question.

Because we operate ordinary, civil law for all. The way we should be dealing with this is locking up all those who are "known" because, lets face it, they aren't staying on a watch list because of simple stuff are they? Its because they pose a threat to society. So lock em up until they are no longer a threat, for decades, I mean.

We already have differential sentencing and suchlike for hate crimes, lets have a similar thing for Islamic terrorism since that is a tangible threat to our way of life.

a reply to: TrueBrit

We have the most invasive, unchecked, unbalanced, liberty destroying mass surveillance operating in this country, with both our data use and communications tracked by traitorous dogs working for our government, and cameras either private or public owned tracking every move, made by every person, such that a person can only be away from any of it by leaving towns and cities altogether. And yet a person known to the authorities, can somehow get from their house to a concert venue with a bomb, and detonate it?

While I agree, I have to also slightly disagree. Yes we are being watched by cameras everywhere. Access to CCTV as well as ATM machine cameras and all. But those cameras need humans to check them. I think the Intelligence Services are stretched thin beyond anything they ever experienced before. There are thousands of suspicious newcomers arriving every month to the UK.

Tracking them and processing this huge amount of new information did take a toll on human power of MI5 and the MET.

originally posted by: mersaultdies
'This ideology' is a useful tool.

So you and this ideology have something in common.

originally posted by: szino9
Just for information, Barking Station in East London is shut down and cordoned due to a bomb scare.

Those who don't know London, Barking is a pretty rough area, it could be anything but for now people talking about a bomb.

Bit of an update

Someone found a suspicious package in Vicarage Shopping Center the other side of the road of the station.


Edit: Station is open now. It was a false alarm. I have a feeling there will be quite a few for the next coming days.

Back in 2002, 2006 and then 2008 we were informed that the UK government had access to this type of technology. The original source links at the partnered firms, Roke Manor Research Ltd and BAE systems, are (not surprisingly) removed now but some of the media articles are still available thankfully...

Government's secret Celldar project will allow surveillance of anyone, at any time and anywhere there is a phone signal

Secret radar technology research that will allow the biggest-ever extension of 'Big Brother'-style surveillance in the UK is being funded by the Government.
The radical new system, which has outraged civil liberties groups, uses mobile phone masts to allow security authorities to watch vehicles and individuals 'in real time' almost anywhere in Britain.
The technology 'sees' the shapes made when radio waves emitted by mobile phone masts meet an obstruction. Signals bounced back by immobile objects, such as walls or trees, are filtered out by the receiver. This allows anything moving, such as cars or people, to be tracked. Previously, radar needed massive fixed equipment to work and transmissions from mobile phone masts were thought too weak to be useful.

The system works wherever a mobile phone can pick up a signal. By using receivers attached to mobile phone masts, users of the new technology could focus in on areas hundreds of miles away and bring up a display showing any moving vehicles and people.

Guardian Article

This begs the question... Why is this allowed to happen?

In my opinion the answer is in that question.

a reply to: UKTruth

Yes he was known but there is that part of innocent until proven guilty. What does surprise me however is they allowed him to go to Syria and return. That could have easily been stopped by revoking his passport.

originally posted by: Mclaneinc
a reply to: UKTruth

Re Katie etc, I like Katie most of the time, she says what others fear to say and her tweet is nothing more than demanding the people in power to protect the public more and in truth stop this fear of offending others. I can't say I always agree with her but her way of projecting gets noticed and certain things need to stop being ignored or shut down in the media.

The fact someone complained just screams leftie do gooder to me. Its OK for obviously ultra Radicals to stand in the street shouting "Behead all Non Muslims" but utterly terrible to tweet a call to people to force the government to act.

Seriously stupid...

It stinks of total impotence to me.

Katie is an easy target and there will always be some one desperate to be offended and try and get a little exposure for themselves.
Its obviously not easy to identify and find terrorists but everyone knows where to find her.

Lots of people who dislike her probably waste a lot of time hanging on her every word, hoping they can share a bit of limelight by attacking.

The funniest part is that they'll fight to the death for their own free speech.... Just not anyone else's.

The people who complained to the Police should be charged with wasting Police time. Its not as if the cops haven't got better things to do.

originally posted by: UKTruthYou would think that the mere act of purchasing equipment for his bomb would have raised a flag... which is why I think he probably had help.

And what equipment would that be, exactly? Some glass bowls from sainsburys? A few spoons?

Chances are every household represented on this board buys at least one item a month that could be used as a precursor in some form of explosive, probably many items in fact. After that it just becomes a matter of building up a big enough stockpile.

I fully agree that he most likely had help, however.

Also, "known to police" really needs some clarification. Was he just put on a list because he (along with a few hundred other people) accessed a website? Was he named by someone in the community as a likely immediate danger? Did they investigate him and find no evidence of risk at the time?

I find it difficult to criticise the police/intelligence services if they chose to prioritise threats that seemed more realistic and imminent at the time. If someone put up a big red flag and said "he's planning to do this and has got the materials" then yeah, I agree, they screwed up.

a reply to: Discotech

its the only consistent thing idiots have done since the dawn of time !

real humans dont need to resort to violence to solve their problems

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: UKTruth

Yes he was known but there is that part of innocent until proven guilty. What does surprise me however is they allowed him to go to Syria and return. That could have easily been stopped by revoking his passport.

You mentioned this exact scenario earlier, before his background was available, IIRC. (regarding people going to the Middle East and returning to carry on the fight)
That seems to be a problem in Europe, and vetting is difficult, if not impossible, in view of the numbers of refugees coming in.
Even if the UK refused to allow their citizens to return after going there to fight, they could always return under a different name and claim refugee status.

I have visited these forums for years but never felt much need to add to the melting pot of opinion.

However, events in Manchester and the comments here have finally forced my hand.

Whilst I understand the hobbling of society by political correctness and tolerance, I am at a loss as to why people cannot see the truth or fear accepting it.

Coming from the UK and having lived alongside a huge Muslim area within our city, I feel the truth needs to be faced. If we don't face the truth there will only be one outcome ultimately.

They do not like us or our society. We are not them. We are seen as inferior. We are worthless.

Yes they will offer platitudes, friendship, understanding, the illusion of integration, but it is ALL a sham.

The vast majority of Muslims want a Muslim world and most want Sharia law. If you think otherwise you are a fool.

Their ideology is based on a prophet who saw practical benefits in violence, coercion and subversion.

We cannot LOVE these people better. We cannot ultimately live alongside them. As their strength grows so will their confidence and abuses.

Most won't listen to this and the cycle will continue. More will die, many more, and the tick will burrow ever deeper. Excuses will be made and justifications sought - there are none. When the truth dawns, will it be too late?

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: UKTruth

Yes he was known but there is that part of innocent until proven guilty. What does surprise me however is they allowed him to go to Syria and return. That could have easily been stopped by revoking his passport.

You mentioned this exact scenario earlier, before his background was available, IIRC. (regarding people going to the Middle East and returning to carry on the fight)
That seems to be a problem in Europe, and vetting is difficult, if not impossible, in view of the numbers of refugees coming in.
Even if the UK refused to allow their citizens to return after going there to fight, they could always return under a different name and claim refugee status.

Let them back in to the country, then shoot their worthless hides. Simple.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Sky news ...Raid on Granby House at the moment.
Armed Police and troops gone in.
Sounds like a block of flats.
Its up near Piccadilly, know the area well, walked past many times.
Doesn't look like they're expecting anything to happen cos there's loads of people outside and normal passersby etc.
Maybe expecting to find accomplices rather than materiels.

a reply to: Mclaneinc

I think the issue is rather deeper than that, personally speaking.

First of all, I have seen suggestions that human observers, actually watching the cameras, are in short supply, which is why not everything that ought to be caught gets caught, but I have reservations about that argument, given what we know about the intelligence agencies, the rise and rise of machine intelligence, as well as the evolution of facial recognition software. I find it impossible to believe that our security services are not aware of every time a pin drops in the household of a suspected terrorist, every time they go to the shops, where they are at any given second, without relying on any actual tracking bugs or anything of the sort, except camera surveillance in their area.

I simply do not believe it, precisely because it is absolutely as you say, a person cannot relieve himself without being tracked doing it, recognised by some system, and pulled up on charges. But as to the reason why the law fails to reach out and grab these morons off the streets... personally, I do not buy the idea that the reason these people get to do what they set out to do, has anything at all to do with concerns about how pre-emptive arrests would be seen by the Muslim community, or indeed by the media, or the left, or anyone else. The security services have been doing things that the people hate, despise, and disagree with in the strongest terms, since there WAS a security service. They do not care, and neither for that matter do the government, what their actions look like to the people.

Personally, I have a feeling that there are certain times and situations where the traitorous dogs running our government for us, will permit a thing to happen, just to ratchet up the fear level, to regain control over the people, who might be getting uppity and having notions to themselves of self determination and self governance. Nothing brings those who are turning away from the establishment, back to the fold like the fear of being involved in a terror attack... apparently. I think that is a pathetic stance to take, because fleshly life is worth nothing without the liberty which gives it meaning, but I understand that not everyone thinks correctly about these things. The tactic seems to work at any rate.

Put another way, our country and the US helped create, fund and aid these fundamentalist groups, and our nations are still doing it. The US just signed a deal with Saudi Arabia, the tap from which the poisoned water that is religious fundamentalism flows in the Middle East, a "huge" deal, for some one hundred and ten billion dollars worth of arms trade. So, if America is still doing these huge deals with Saudi Arabia, how much of a stretch is it to believe that there is a possibility that some attacks are merely allowed to happen, to manage public perception of certain events, be they elections, be they arms deals, be they government handing more powers to the security services, thereby further eroding the freedom of the citizen?

Its a dark business.

I hope they just round them all up and lock them up forever


why cant the UK just close its borders temporarily , work on getting everyone on watch list in jail
then strengthen our border access then re-open

is it because we are still bound by EU directives ?

a reply to: TrueBrit

as I said earlier the government probavly knew about it , but a bomb always helps sway votes
take a look at the number of bombs in the UK in correlation to the number of UK general elections
a bomb every general election year either 1 or 2 months before

and yes a bomb every TORY general election

I am in two minds whether to message the tory party and tell them they are #in scum
this was simply allowed to happen

as you said If I took a piss in glasgow outside my work id get a letter from the fiscal the very next day id be lucky if i wasnt
arrested by cops within a few minutes

So why then are these terrorists allowed to walk our streets when they are clearly planning on committing crimes against the state and the people

it's a #ed up world where i can do a 5 year stretch for painting a train but a terrorist can build bombs and kill people and get away with it

I agree our traitorous government allow certain actions to happen as a tool to do acts elsewhere, to be honest we all know it was seen with the Blair Bush scenario. There's also one other concern here, its that these people seem to be able to act at will yet we acknowledge them as on the radar but not on the microscope as was said yesterday. Now that brings 2 concerns, have we got too few people operating to watch these or is it that there's far too many of these terror suspects to manage.

Both of those worry but more so the second option which suggests as what many have believed all along, that the minority of Radicals is far greater than we have been lead to believe and the powers that be in Government cannot cope with the numbers..

That scares me if its true..

a reply to: Mclaneinc

arent the uk watching something like 8000 individuals for terror suspicion ?

surely we have enough man power to cover these 8000 people ?
isnt there a task force set up to specifically deal with this a nation wide operation ?