Loud Bangs heard in Manchester UK

a reply to: Xcathdra

Ok. That's good.

But then why do you talk about ISIS terrorists using the term Muslims???

That would be the same as talking about KKK terrorists using the term Christians.

originally posted by: toysforadults

originally posted by: Cropper
Most people here in the UK have no idea what awful news awaits them when they wake up today.

Did they put all those car stopping things that guy in NYC ran into the other day up in the UK?

I know the town center is full of them, so they will be plenty of them close to the arena, whether they were up or not I don't know?

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: randomthoughts12
a reply to: burdman30ott6

This question still has not been answered. I was hoping Kali would try as I am eager to see anyone try to answer that question.

Jihad - Often described as Holy war however the actual meaning is simply to struggle and can be used for a lot of different areas.

Suicide - Quran forbids suicide / suicide bombers - verses 21: 107, 34: 28, 17: 105, and 25: 56

Murder - Murder of a person, which all are created by God, is forbidden - Qur’an 6:151. The ten commandments are actually distorted on this topic as its often said "Thou shall not kill". The correct translation is "Thou shall not murder". All religions / their texts make killing in some circumstances acceptable.

Conversion to Islam - The Quran forbids forced conversion of non Muslims to Muslim - The Cow, 2:256. Conversion must be voluntary. Anything less is forbidden.

Warfare - The Quran forbids aggressive warfare. If the enemy desires peace then so shall Muslims. If the enemy attacks Muslims then Muslims may respond but Islam can never be the aggressor - The Cow,” 2:190, 8:61

Killing non combatants / civilians - Forbidden.

The killing of innocent non-combatants is forbidden. According to Sunni tradition, ‘Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, the first Caliph, gave these instructions to his armies: “I instruct you in ten matters: Do not kill women, children, the old, or the infirm; do not cut down fruit-bearing trees; do not destroy any town . . . ” (Malik’s Muwatta’, “Kitab al-Jihad.”)

Terrorism (hirabah) - Forbidden by Islamic law / Quran - Surah al-Ma’ida 5:33–34 -

brigandage, highway robbery and extortion rackets– any illicit use of fear and coercion in public spaces for money or power.

Justice -

The Qur’an demands of believers that they exercise justice toward people even where they have reason to be angry with them: “And do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness.”[5:8]

Christians / Jews -

The Qur’an assures Christians and Jews of paradise if they believe and do good works, and commends Christians as the best friends of Muslims.

- Quran 5:69 says (Arberry): “Surely they that believe, and those of Jewry, and the Christians, and those Sabeaans, whoso believes in God and the Last Day, and works righteousness–their wage waits them with their Lord, and no fear shall be on them, neither shall they sorrow.”

Just touching on a few points.

The issue revolves around religious leaders issuing their own interpretations of Islam to suit their agenda.

There is just as much stupidity in the Jewish and Christian religions as there are in the Muslim religion.

As an example Westborrow Baptist lunatics.

ISIS is to Islam as the KKK is to Christianity.

The above post is pure Taqiyya.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Residents of Manchester have mobilised in the hours after the attack, with offers of help for stranded and injured concertgoers flooding Twitter. Victoria train station was closed in the wake of the incident, and was expected to remain closed throughout Tuesday, leaving many people stuck in the city centre without a way home. As many as 21,000 people – many of whom were children and teenagers – were at the concert. Using the trending hashtag #roomformanchester, locals offered spare bedrooms, cups of tea and rides to people caught up in the attack. Taxi drivers reportedly converged on the city offering free lifts to people in need.

#roomfo rmanchester

ATTENTION!!!!

originally posted by: Zaphod58
This is not the Mud Pit, all T&C rules apply. Which means knock off the insults and the back and forth. Staff understands that this is a heated topic that has hit close to home for some of you.

But that does not give you free reign to go after each other, or anyone else.

Stay on topic...ignore the trolls....respect the victims....alert staff to issues you see.


and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!

originally posted by: The3murph

The above post is pure Taqiyya.

Interesting choice of word there.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Xcathdra

Ok. That's good.

But then why do you talk about ISIS terrorists using the term Muslims???

That would be the same as talking about KKK terrorists using the term Christians.

I dont believe I did... ISIS are not true Muslims and evidence for that is their complete dismissal of some of the basic tenants of Islam.

what I am saying is ISIS / KKK used the respective religions to hide behind in order to -
A - justify their actions
B - Give the appearance that God supports their undertaking.

as I said before do you think ISIS / KKK would be more successful if they stated they want to kill people simply because a leader in that group wants power with no opposition or diverging thoughts other than the one being pushed...

or

Do you think they would be more successful in co-opting a religion and twisting parts of it to justify their actions while ignoring the sections they cant?

We can look at History for examples -

But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute responsibility for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the catastrophe which he had foreseen and to save the nation from that hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsibility for the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the Fatherland to Justice.

All this was inspired by the principle—which is quite true within itself—that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.
It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.
— Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X[1]

in other words -

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it."

a reply to: Xcathdra

www.youtube.com... what the world needs now is love sweet love by jackie deshannon

originally posted by: The3murph

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: randomthoughts12
a reply to: burdman30ott6

This question still has not been answered. I was hoping Kali would try as I am eager to see anyone try to answer that question.

Jihad - Often described as Holy war however the actual meaning is simply to struggle and can be used for a lot of different areas.

Suicide - Quran forbids suicide / suicide bombers - verses 21: 107, 34: 28, 17: 105, and 25: 56

Murder - Murder of a person, which all are created by God, is forbidden - Qur’an 6:151. The ten commandments are actually distorted on this topic as its often said "Thou shall not kill". The correct translation is "Thou shall not murder". All religions / their texts make killing in some circumstances acceptable.

Conversion to Islam - The Quran forbids forced conversion of non Muslims to Muslim - The Cow, 2:256. Conversion must be voluntary. Anything less is forbidden.

Warfare - The Quran forbids aggressive warfare. If the enemy desires peace then so shall Muslims. If the enemy attacks Muslims then Muslims may respond but Islam can never be the aggressor - The Cow,” 2:190, 8:61

Killing non combatants / civilians - Forbidden.

The killing of innocent non-combatants is forbidden. According to Sunni tradition, ‘Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, the first Caliph, gave these instructions to his armies: “I instruct you in ten matters: Do not kill women, children, the old, or the infirm; do not cut down fruit-bearing trees; do not destroy any town . . . ” (Malik’s Muwatta’, “Kitab al-Jihad.”)

Terrorism (hirabah) - Forbidden by Islamic law / Quran - Surah al-Ma’ida 5:33–34 -

brigandage, highway robbery and extortion rackets– any illicit use of fear and coercion in public spaces for money or power.

Justice -

The Qur’an demands of believers that they exercise justice toward people even where they have reason to be angry with them: “And do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness.”[5:8]

Christians / Jews -

The Qur’an assures Christians and Jews of paradise if they believe and do good works, and commends Christians as the best friends of Muslims.

- Quran 5:69 says (Arberry): “Surely they that believe, and those of Jewry, and the Christians, and those Sabeaans, whoso believes in God and the Last Day, and works righteousness–their wage waits them with their Lord, and no fear shall be on them, neither shall they sorrow.”

Just touching on a few points.

The issue revolves around religious leaders issuing their own interpretations of Islam to suit their agenda.

There is just as much stupidity in the Jewish and Christian religions as there are in the Muslim religion.

As an example Westborrow Baptist lunatics.

ISIS is to Islam as the KKK is to Christianity.

The above post is pure Taqiyya.

"Taqiyya is an Islamic juridical term whose shifting meaning relates to when a Muslim is allowed, under Sharia law, to lie. A concept whose meaning has varied significantly among Islamic sects, scholars, countries, and political regimes, it nevertheless is one of the key terms used by recent anti-Muslim polemicists

Then by all means answer the question and correct any mistake I made. I am not a Muslim so I can be wrong on the topic. At least I tried to educate myself and try to better understand the issue.

a reply to: Xcathdra

No, of course they're more successful using those Religions in that way. Which is why I don't consider the KKK to be Christians or ISIS to be Muslims.

But that's because of what I understand to be Christians and Muslims. They of course would disagree with me though.

Just like Phelps would say what I think of as Christian is wrong. It's relative.

Also, maybe I had you confused. Maybe it was someone else who kept using the Term Muslim for Terrorists without any distinction. If so then that is my fault.

MRI A&E

MRI accident and emergency department is in “complete lockdown” according to staff. “It’s a crime scene,” said one, pointing to police forensics officers who are going in and out of the hospital with clear plastic evidence bags. Police officers are guarding the doors, behind two red signs saying “major incident – no entry”. As ambulances began to arrive around midnight, staff cleared A&E of all patients unconnected to the Arena blast.

Just to clarify - is this because Police are gathering shrapnel and stuff?

Worked late tonight. Heard about this but details are sketchy, even on social media where info is the speed of light (and the focus of a scatter shotgun).

Any info coming out on who/what/why?

I seen some fakeass video of someone with a poor accent doing the allah stuff, but..yeah, fake video is fake.

Sad that this should happen to one of my favorite musical cities. And if the accounts are true there are a lot of fatalities.

One wonders what's really behind this.

a reply to: mOjOm

Sure but Phelps, just like ISIS leaders, are pursuing their own agendas and are using religion to hide it.

This could be an Operation Gladio style stunt. Blowing up an Ariana Grande concert!?! Striking at a bunch of teeny boppers and their parents. Muslim extremists don't think of things like this. This is too close to the "western cultural sensibility" for me. It's too perfect as a right wing propaganda opportunity. I smell a rat's nest.

Amazing how some members can manage to see and read whoever their advisary at the moment has written so that they can reply and keep fighting about it, yet somehow that can't see the mods telling them to knock it off and stay on topic.

Speaking of amazing things, the coming together of the people of Manchester to open their homes and offer any help needed on this sad and awful night is really amazing. Sad it has to even happen, but it still shows that bottom line people still have good hearts towards their fellow man and won't cower and hide their heads in the sand. Good on you people of Manchester, good on you. Love hasn't been run off yet thankfully.

a reply to: ipsedixit

really?

Beslan school seige

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: Jobeycool
Another radical Muslim terrorist obviously,MSM still whining over Trump and Comey.This country has been a mess sense Obama and Hillary.
No sense of understanding we are at war with radical Muslims.

If only Hillary and Obama didn't start a war in the Middle East, huh???

Oh wait......

This isn't all on one side dude.

Talking more about not calling wars wars,and not calling radical Muslims radical Muslims.It is confusing the youth and they do not seem to understand this world has wars.
At some point this prob will explode into mass millions of death and prob WW3,could be going towards Battle of Armageddon with nukes.
Doubt the U.S. and Israel will be able to stop Iran from getting nukes.Which will further spread nukes.Just the way it seems the world is sadly.

a reply to: ipsedixit

This kind of thing sure makes Trumps Travel Ban seem more like a good idea doesn't it???

Not saying that is what it is, but I'm just following your thinking here a little bit.

It's been rejected twice. He's not happy about that. Nor are many of his supporters. If only there was a way to scare people into agreeing with something like that???