Burn the House to Kill a Fly - Notre Dame grads don't know the meaning of Sacred

a reply to: TinySickTears

I guess it was an insult and I'm sorry.

Apology accepted. No foul.

I stand by my opinion. Being bothered so much by a peaceful action that has no bearing on your life to the point you would risk jail to do or say something about it is kind of psycho to me.

The response I gave to which you are referring was based on if someone had disrupted my commencement. Of course I am not going to drive up South Bend to start a fight over a disruption at Notre Dame. I would consider that psycho, too.

But if it is shoved in my face, that's a different story.

And I'm with you on knowledge. It's power.

I'm glad we agree.

Them walking away does now affect it though

I disagree. It does not affect what they have learned, but it can effect future students. Knowledge cannot be disseminated in chaos... some amount of order is essential. Order is also not antithetical to freedom.

At my school, I have a reputation of sorts as a 'loose cannon.' In class, I have absolutely no concern over asking questions... often tough, uncomfortable questions. I'm also the guy to start up small talk with the professor. I think it makes the class more interesting. But... and this is the important part... I always do so with respect for the school and the professor. Sitting in that classroom is a great privilege, and I have absolutely no intention of cheapening that privilege through disrespect.

Example: the semester before my Baccalaureate graduation, I was taking a Graduate course in Digital Communications. It was one of the toughest courses in Communications, based in large part on statistical probabilities in an unknown environment. My professor was an alumni of Clemson, and a huge football fan. I am, of course, a massive Alabama fan, and it just so happened that the National Championship between Alabama and Clemson was that night. She walked in and started plugging up her laptop to the projector when I said, "I want to go ahead and apologize for what's going to happen to Clemson tonight."

The whole class was in shock. But she retorted, I retorted, we both laughed, and we got down to work. Alabama won, and we spent 5 minutes the next class discussing the game.

I received the 2016 Outstanding Electrical Engineering Student of the Year award soon after. She was one of the faculty who spoke at my award ceremony about my achievements... and her greatest compliment toward me was how she regarded me and my candor as an asset to the entire class. We bantered, we argued, we debated, but we had respect for each other. Without that respect, my actions would have been disruptive. With respect, they were appreciated.

Sitting in that group being honored is a great privilege. Walking across that stage to applause for my achievements, receiving the degree (well, the blank paper that represents it) and shaking the hand of the President of the University is a great privilege. Accepting that privilege for the express purpose of disrespecting everyone around one is abuse of that privilege. Such is antithetical to the very idea of academia , and cheapens it for everyone else in it.

TheRedneck

I think another angle of this problem is the tendency of the left to sensationalize any opportunity. The right is also guilty of this to some extent, but that is a false equivalency that has been beaten to death.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
and cheapens it for everyone else in it.

Does it?

If you set aside emotions and actually try to be objective, I think the answer is no.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: SeaWorthy

Sure they can wait until after but why should they have to sit through and listen to him?

I guess because he was invited to their school and he is the vice president of their country. There is a certain type of respect we normally expect even if we disagree with our leaders. It is about respecting the office and the country itself. Even respecting the graduation ceremony.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I've had to sit through a few commencement speeches of people I disagree completely with, but like you, I sat through it. The day wasn't about them, it was about my accomplishment. The ones who were walking out are probably looking for a job somehow involved in politics or journalism and wanted to get a leg up on interviews.

originally posted by: raymundoko
The day wasn't about them, it was about my accomplishment.

it was about their accomplishment...correct

so what the hell is so wrong if they decide to pass on the whole deal?

a reply to: TinySickTears

I didn't say anything was wrong with it, but to me it seems like they don't appreciate it. The one guy is even laughing as he walks out .

a reply to: raymundoko

maybe they dont.
they dont have to though

they were there to get a degree and they got it

thats the point of college. to go learn and to get a degree.
not to show automatic respect to anyone.
not to cherish a ceremony you may not give a # about

pay money. learn. get degree. gtfo
thats what it boils down to

a reply to: TinySickTears

so what the hell is so wrong if they decide to pass on the whole deal?

Absolutely nothing. That has been said over and over again. No one is saying anyone should be forced or even expected to attend commencement. It is 100% voluntary.

But they didn't choose to not attend. They chose to attend, with full prior knowledge who the speakers were, for the sole purpose of staging this walkout. In other words, the protesters intended to disrupt the ceremony; that's why they were there. And that's what I am speaking against... not choosing to not attend, not deciding they didn't like the message, not because they don't like Pence... because they chose to disrupt commencement with no regard for anyone but themselves.

Is that so hard to understand?

TheRedneck

a reply to: TinySickTears

pay money. learn. get degree. gtfo

No.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: TinySickTears

pay money. learn. get degree. gtfo

No.

TheRedneck

im thinking yeah
when you break it down to the meat of it thats what college is

you pay for knowledge and at the end you prove you have a predetermined amount of knowledge and then you get a degree stating as much
thats what college is.....at its most basic

what is it in your opinion?

a reply to: TheRedneck

i see what you are saying but what went on before pence?
could it be possible that these people wanted to be there for certain things and not others?

did someone speak before pence? maybe they wanted to hear that person..

i dont know the breakdown of what happened and who spoke and what went on but i think it is possible they wanted to see some of it and when the part they didnt want to see came up they left.

ive been to concerts before with multiple bands because i only wanted to see a certain one. i stayed until what i wanted to see was over then i split.
i know this was not a concert but same idea

a reply to: raymundoko

Ah, good point! I guess as an engineer, I may be a bit biased when other majors are concerned. One thing I like about my school is that the campus is split right down the middle... engineers on the south side, normal people on the north side.

I guess I can understand a political science major trying to make a name for themselves by being the center of the story... I certainly don't agree with it, but I can understand the (selfish) motivation.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TinySickTears

If you add in "networking with professionals" that is pretty much what it is on the surface. Beneath it is tons of sweat, tears, and struggle. Especially for a degree in the sciences. And beneath that is usually a few dozen hands holding you up and pushing you forward.

My sister just graduated from Tech. She's 36, and has spent the last 6 years in school. The effort was not just hers (her degree is in work that is very similar to what i do) as she has a 5 year old too. Its the stuff beneath the surface that people take pretty seriously, and possibly relates to what Redneck is talking about. I know I take pride in my sister and my wifes education. I was part of it, too.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: TinySickTears

If you add in "networking with professionals" that is pretty much what it is on the surface. Beneath it is tons of sweat, tears, and struggle. Especially for a degree in the sciences. And beneath that is usually a few dozen hands holding you up and pushing you forward.

.

im sure for some...
they network and make contacts and such.

and im sure for others(especially the socially awkward like me) they just want to sit in the dorm and blaze while they listen to phish, jack in and code all night, sit in the back of the class and avoid as many people as possible and graduate and gtfo so they can work at the googleplex

a reply to: TinySickTears

what is it in your opinion?

College is an opportunity to learn from the brightest minds on the planet, not just facts and figures, but how to critically think and thus expand the base of human knowledge. It is both a learning experience and a teaching experience; everyone can contribute.

The degree is a statement by that college to the world that they believe you are qualified to a particular level to contribute to your chosen field. Baccalaureate: capable of working in that profession as a professional; Master: capable of contributing to one's chosen profession in a substantial way; Doctorate: capable of expanding one's chosen profession beyond present limits.

College is also a place to learn new cultures and make friendships that are closed to those outside the campus and can transcend the petty squabbling that exists there. It is a place to broaden horizons and expand one's view. It is not some sort of fast-fact knowledge kiosk.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TinySickTears

did someone speak before pence?

Probably the President of the University gave a welcome and introduced the guest speaker. Possibly a couple of the Dean's gave a short statement. But the guest speaker is typically early in the program.

ive been to concerts before with multiple bands because i only wanted to see a certain one. i stayed until what i wanted to see was over then i split.
i know this was not a concert but same idea

No, not a concert, and most definitely NOT the same same idea.

The two are so far apart, I honestly don't know how to answer that in terms you can understand. Maybe imagine some musicians only played one song with their band the next left? So you didn't get to hear the whole band?

The students in attendance are not spectators! They are the main performance!

TheRedneck

a reply to: TinySickTears

and im sure for others(especially the socially awkward like me) they just want to sit in the dorm and blaze while they listen to phish, jack in and code all night, sit in the back of the class and avoid as many people as possible and graduate and gtfo so they can work at the googleplex

Those are the ones who wind up $50,000 in student debt while flipping hamburgers at McDonalds and living in their parents' basement.

They're damn lucky if they ever get the opportunity to walk with that attitude.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: TinySickTears

and im sure for others(especially the socially awkward like me) they just want to sit in the dorm and blaze while they listen to phish, jack in and code all night, sit in the back of the class and avoid as many people as possible and graduate and gtfo so they can work at the googleplex

Those are the ones who wind up $50,000 in student debt while flipping hamburgers at McDonalds and living in their parents' basement.

They're damn lucky if they ever get the opportunity to walk with that attitude.

TheRedneck

or they go on to create giant software and hardware companies....maybe not but you dont know that those anti social types wind up flipping burgers....how can you know that?

can you link me some proof?
i would like to see some sort of factual breakdown if it can even be measured.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
Then I would say we have a media problem as well. I never heard about that until now.

The same goes for them, though. Either stay home or stay outside and hold your widdle signs. Don't interrupt the ceremony.

TheRedneck

It was big news when it happened.

www.washingtonpost.com... 3208b97c

That article is mainly about Pence, but does at least mention it. W faced a walkout there, as did Obama. I don't think it's partisian, rather it's the fact that most graduates are young, aren't really thinking things through, and take politics way too seriously.

originally posted by: TinySickTears
im thinking yeah
when you break it down to the meat of it thats what college is

you pay for knowledge and at the end you prove you have a predetermined amount of knowledge and then you get a degree stating as much
thats what college is.....at its most basic

what is it in your opinion?

You don't really pay for knowledge, so much as you pay for the opportunity to learn. All the time in the world sitting in a classroom isn't going to help you learn anything if you don't pay attention and apply whatever learning methods work for you.

Even the idea of a predetermined about of knowledge doesn't really apply because GPA and grades don't affect knowledge. It's all just a game with grading scales. Sometimes tests matter, sometimes they don't. Sometimes it's about attendence, other times it's about homework. Occasionally professors just want to see effort and they'll pass you. Other times a professor will fail an entire class just because it gives them a power trip.

Everything you learn in college, you can learn from books. And given an opportunity from an employer, you can demonstrate the same knowledge. A degree isn't about having knowledge, it's about the fact that you've had the chance to learn from experts for a few years. Whether or not someone takes advantage of that though is up to them.

Then again, I readily admit that I am a bad student. I learn, and I seem to make a good impression on my professors, but I have never been the type to get good grades in classes even though I'm generally an excellent test taker. It's just my luck that I'm bad at homework, and tend to pick teachers/classes that are more about homework than anything else.