Single Payer System Would (At Least) Double New York State Budget

a reply to: dfnj2015

So how to explain the 20% increase in premiums every year and people pay more and more healthcare taxes ?

did i not say regulate?

oops my bad i didn't put the words Insurance companies, i just said " or anything that has the the words "health" and "care" attached to it"

talk about being illiterate .


ETA: i just reread my first post again and i said , or anything that has the the words "health" and "care" attached to it, costs are brought under control and that includes insurance . nothing the government does will fix it.".

so talking about being illiterate really does have meaning.

This is effing dumb thread. I'm so sick of you laissez faire capitalist a holes. Don't tell me a private bureaucracy is better than a public one. The healthcare taxes are out of control in this country and doing NOTHING is only going to make it worse. THERE IS NO FREE MARKET in this country for healthcare. Healthcare in this country is a cartel and monopoly raping the American people. Whatever, you right wingers can be "right". I don't care what you think.

a reply to: dfnj2015

tell me how regulating what can be charged is doing nothing.

another example although not medical,

one of the power companies wanted to rasie the base rate here in just the past few months 50 more dollar iirc on on to of what they already charged, just to have electricy not what you use. the The Florida Public Service Commission (PSC) only let them raise it 7 dollars. government regulateing the cost that can be charged worked just fine. the same can be done for health care.

a reply to: Dfairlite

Where do you live I'm in Illinois. In a rather large city and have to pay $3000 for an ekg, a blood test, and a few hours in the e.r..

a reply to: conscientiousobserver

bargain

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Dfairlite

The hospitals are overcharging. We need a government take over to get costs under control.

Yes because they care for you and I so much. Na they see money to be made for another skim tank just like SS ect.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
This is effing dumb thread. I'm so sick of you laissez faire capitalist a holes. Don't tell me a private bureaucracy is better than a public one. The healthcare taxes are out of control in this country and doing NOTHING is only going to make it worse. THERE IS NO FREE MARKET in this country for healthcare. Healthcare in this country is a cartel and monopoly raping the American people. Whatever, you right wingers can be "right". I don't care what you think.

Im not a right winger, however, I agree with you on one point. We need to shift to a free market health care system, we don't have one today.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: dfnj2015

tell me how regulating what can be charged is doing nothing.

another example although not medical,

one of the power companies wanted to rasie the base rate here in just the past few months 50 more dollar iirc on on to of what they already charged, just to have electricy not what you use. the The Florida Public Service Commission (PSC) only let them raise it 7 dollars. government regulateing the cost that can be charged worked just fine. the same can be done for health care.

Well thats one thing. Much better than state run only. The single payer thing only looks good to the state because of the revenue it would collect over the reverse. But its sold as if it were some stream lined profit removed deal.

a reply to: Logarock

exactly, more money in their coffers and control over your life.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
This is effing dumb thread. I'm so sick of you laissez faire capitalist a holes. Don't tell me a private bureaucracy is better than a public one. The healthcare taxes are out of control in this country and doing NOTHING is only going to make it worse. THERE IS NO FREE MARKET in this country for healthcare. Healthcare in this country is a cartel and monopoly raping the American people. Whatever, you right wingers can be "right". I don't care what you think.

I agree with the condition to a large degree as you have it, but letting the government run the thing in a state like NY will end up as a bad solution.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Dfairlite

The hospitals are overcharging. We need a government take over to get costs under control.

Right. Sure!

Look at the costs of healthcare under "Obamacare"

Skyrocketed!!

originally posted by: Charlyboy
a reply to: Dfairlite

Thats probably because they cost an X-ray of a femur at $2000..... Your health care costs are ridiculous in the US.

The costs have gone out of control here, an ultrasound my granddaughter had while pregnant ran over two grand. The thing is, they keep wanting to give them all the time even though they are shown to be bad for the fetus now.

Can't these medical professionals comprehend anything, are they so brainwashed they cannot see what they are doing is not that critical. My granddaughter goes to every ultrasound they order, three or four so far. They tell her they can identify things in advance, yet they do not tell her there is not a thing they can do about it anyway. Can't the people ordering these things comprehend that their tests are not really worth giving.

So far they have not found one thing wrong with my granddaughters baby, yet they will be doing another ultrasound again in a month......for what. Maybe my ability to see that this is just something to drum up business in the majority of the cases is rare. I can see doing one ultrasound, that would be a good thing. If something they can fix is found, then I can see getting more. I do not like to mention this to my granddaughter, she is very defensive with pregnant brain clouding her judgement, I gave her links to information that shows that these tests are harmful to a fetus especially in the first trimester. They gave her two ultrasounds in the first Trimester, I thought that practice was supposed to be stopped.

We need to stop giving tests that are not necessary, I bet half the people with good health insurance have gone for sleep apnea testing. Never admit you snore at all, they will make you sleep a night in the hospital. If you say you snore even occasionally, it gives them the ability to prescribe this expensive test. I was on meds that made me snore because I am intolerant to them. With no meds, I only snore when I am super tired from working hard all day.

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: Charlyboy
a reply to: Dfairlite

Thats probably because they cost an X-ray of a femur at $2000..... Your health care costs are ridiculous in the US.

The costs have gone out of control here, an ultrasound my granddaughter had while pregnant ran over two grand. The thing is, they keep wanting to give them all the time even though they are shown to be bad for the fetus now.

Can't these medical professionals comprehend anything, are they so brainwashed they cannot see what they are doing is not that critical. My granddaughter goes to every ultrasound they order, three or four so far. They tell her they can identify things in advance, yet they do not tell her there is not a thing they can do about it anyway. Can't the people ordering these things comprehend that their tests are not really worth giving.

So far they have not found one thing wrong with my granddaughters baby, yet they will be doing another ultrasound again in a month......for what. Maybe my ability to see that this is just something to drum up business in the majority of the cases is rare. I can see doing one ultrasound, that would be a good thing. If something they can fix is found, then I can see getting more. I do not like to mention this to my granddaughter, she is very defensive with pregnant brain clouding her judgement, I gave her links to information that shows that these tests are harmful to a fetus especially in the first trimester. They gave her two ultrasounds in the first Trimester, I thought that practice was supposed to be stopped.

We need to stop giving tests that are not necessary, I bet half the people with good health insurance have gone for sleep apnea testing. Never admit you snore at all, they will make you sleep a night in the hospital. If you say you snore even occasionally, it gives them the ability to prescribe this expensive test. I was on meds that made me snore because I am intolerant to them. With no meds, I only snore when I am super tired from working hard all day.

A big part of the reason Dr's order a lot of test that are unnecessary is due to the litigious nature of our society. If a Dr. misses something and the attorneys find out, they will use that as a way to hold the Dr. liable. This is why tort reform is so necessary to help lower medical costs. I'm not saying Dr's cannot be incompetent, but the threat of legal action is making them practice "defensive medicine" which is where they are basically trying to cover all bases so they aren't exposed to undue liability.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: dfnj2015

lol how're those govt student loans working out? That sure lowered tuition prices right?

The government ones are fine. The private ones are full of corruption. There is no difference between public and private corruption. Why is one type of bureaucracy better than the other?

Besides, we should raise taxes on the billionaires so the students don't have any debt. I hear the wealthy complain about taxes all the time. But how bad can it be if wealth inequality is at all time highs and only gets worse every year. Eff em. Raise taxes and give our students more opportunity to provide a much higher tax base for military spending.

You seem like a person that actually cares about people and I think that no matter what our disagreements that at least means we are both looking for the same thing.

The problem is that maany of the issues you are raising were created by government involvement.

Take the student loaan issue.

Universities not that long ago were affordable to students who merely worked a job while attending. Sure schools like Harvard were expensive, but smaller universities like the one I attended only costs a couple thousand a semester.

Once the government got in the business of guaranteeing student loans, the price of college went up exponentially. This wa because the government basically guaranteed universities they would get paaid, and so the universities could raise their prices with impunity. Before this, universities had to be competitive or students wouldn't attend. Now they can charge whatever they want, knowing that the government will provide them the money.

You are right that in this case, the private business, the university, is greedy. But the free market system would have rained in their greed forcing them to remain competitive. One the government got involved (even if they had good intentions) the prices sky rocketed.

Health care is the same. The reason that hospitals, insurance companies etc. can charge such insane prices is because the government got involved in the first place. If there was no such thing as insurance, people would shop around for their health care needs, and a hospital or doctors price and ability would determine where people would go for their care.

Medicare and medicaid in addition to many other government involved programs allowed these providers to get free money, allowing them to raise their costs with no fear of financial competition. Obamacare was infinitely worse, buy making it illegal to not get involved ion this scam.

Universal care or a single payer system would be even worse. There would be zero costs control on hospitals or others, allowing them to charge whatever they wanted for ny service. At the end of the day, the tax payer would be forced to cover these costs.

Now you may say the government could impose costs restrictions on these hospitals. But show me one instance where this has ever worked out? If thats the case, why hasn't the government imposed restrictions on university costs? The truth is the bureaucracy of government would mean that lobbyists would ensure that as much wealth as possible was transferred to the hospitals and politicians they supported.

The answer to health care isnt more government involvement, its less. I will grant you that this system will never be perfect and there will always be people left on the edges, but that is where moral people like us can use charity (like the Shriners hospitals for example) to ensure that as many people as possible receive quality care.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: Charlyboy
a reply to: Dfairlite

Thats probably because they cost an X-ray of a femur at $2000..... Your health care costs are ridiculous in the US.

The costs have gone out of control here, an ultrasound my granddaughter had while pregnant ran over two grand. The thing is, they keep wanting to give them all the time even though they are shown to be bad for the fetus now.

Can't these medical professionals comprehend anything, are they so brainwashed they cannot see what they are doing is not that critical. My granddaughter goes to every ultrasound they order, three or four so far. They tell her they can identify things in advance, yet they do not tell her there is not a thing they can do about it anyway. Can't the people ordering these things comprehend that their tests are not really worth giving.

So far they have not found one thing wrong with my granddaughters baby, yet they will be doing another ultrasound again in a month......for what. Maybe my ability to see that this is just something to drum up business in the majority of the cases is rare. I can see doing one ultrasound, that would be a good thing. If something they can fix is found, then I can see getting more. I do not like to mention this to my granddaughter, she is very defensive with pregnant brain clouding her judgement, I gave her links to information that shows that these tests are harmful to a fetus especially in the first trimester. They gave her two ultrasounds in the first Trimester, I thought that practice was supposed to be stopped.

We need to stop giving tests that are not necessary, I bet half the people with good health insurance have gone for sleep apnea testing. Never admit you snore at all, they will make you sleep a night in the hospital. If you say you snore even occasionally, it gives them the ability to prescribe this expensive test. I was on meds that made me snore because I am intolerant to them. With no meds, I only snore when I am super tired from working hard all day.

A big part of the reason Dr's order a lot of test that are unnecessary is due to the litigious nature of our society. If a Dr. misses something and the attorneys find out, they will use that as a way to hold the Dr. liable. This is why tort reform is so necessary to help lower medical costs. I'm not saying Dr's cannot be incompetent, but the threat of legal action is making them practice "defensive medicine" which is where they are basically trying to cover all bases so they aren't exposed to undue liability.

That is one of the major reasons, another is that there are a lot of people working in the medical trade now that need to have income and they also have to pay for all that expensive technology. Most times it is not greed that causes this, it is compassion for fellow workers and also protecting oneself from lawsuits like you mentioned. We need to get industry back into this country so people do not need to be sick to support the economy.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: dfnj2015

That's not my number that's the liberal UMASS econ professor's math.
Here's a link to his analysis. link

If you read the paper it argues that switching to a universal single payer system would save money.

The problem is not hospitals that has been shown by successful hospitals that were allowed to dump federal insurance and either due cash or private, and they were able to cut costs drastically.

As soon as the state, or the fed is involved costs go up, that has been shown time and time again in many different arenas.

Can someone point to a situation in which government has actually lowered costs in any industry?

originally posted by: Edumakated
Can someone point to a situation in which government has actually lowered costs in any industry?

Health care in any other developed country?

a reply to: Edumakated

Thank you for beating me to the punch! It is ridiculous that lawyers turned politician write the laws to benefit their profession. Very few people actually recognize that part of the problem.