Ufos, Aliens, Space Conspiracies, etc VS "The Firmament" and not getting beyond low earth orbit.

Hello all,

I am a long time ATS follower and this is my first started topic. I'm looking for opinions and feedback with my dilemma. It's about a tough decision on which direction to continue my research on.

For many years, like many, I have been interested in and believed in life outside of earth, alien visitors and craft sightings, the Bob Lazar story, possibilities of secret space programs, discussions about planets in our solar system and beyond, etc.

In recent years however, I have been reading more and more about the belief that Earth is under a "Firmament" or, a impenetrable dome and that nothing can ever get beyond low earth orbit. One particular YouTube video stood out to me:

youtu.be...

The issue here is that you can't have them both. You either believe in Ufos, Aliens, Space Conspiracies, etc or... you believe in a firmament and that we have never even been to space. No satellites get past low earth orbit and nothing comes and goes from earth.

Considering the fact that the only "proof" that man has voyaged to space is from the words of any astronaut that has allegedly been there and from any and footage and telemetry provided by NASA that you choose to believe.

So, which direction would you focus on? Aliens, visitations, space exploration or.. no space at all?

a reply to: JerseyGuy

What are meteorites?

Why would other governments support this lie? Wouldn't China and Russia/Soviet Union love to discredit the US?

Why not mention flat earth while you're at it....

You know you want to

a reply to: JerseyGuy

So there is a gigantic conspiracy that has been covered up in thousands of different ways for the purpose of...what reason that makes sense?

a reply to: JerseyGuy

Considering the fact that the only "proof" that man has voyaged to space is from the words of any astronaut that has allegedly been there and from any and footage and telemetry provided by NASA that you choose to believe.

You know that Russia, China, European Space Agency, Japan, and India have sent missions beyond Earth orbit. In addition to NASA (USA). Do have any particular reason to not want to believe them?

Lol I didn't want to go there.

There were definitely some interesting aspects in the video I provided if anyone wishes to take the time to watch it. It just seems to open this whole other way of thinking. It's like a fork in the road on which way to go in beliefs.

a reply to: JerseyGuy
You do know that whatever you decide believe will be true for you regardless of any evidence based theory?? Our experience as humans is moulded by belief systems as much as it is moulded by 'facts' or 'data'. So choosing what to believe and what not to believe really should be your choice. You don't have to believe in ufo's, aliens, god or a dome if you don't want to, it's simply a matter of choice.

Some people prefer to believe in science, you can see how dogmatic they are with that belief, just as people are with religion and politics. The thing is once you remove yourself from all of that stuff you realise the choice to believe is yours and once you truly believe you will see things that enforce that belief.

It truly is an interactive reality.....

a reply to: Charlyboy

Thank you for that! I guess my whole post is about me being confused now.

a reply to: JerseyGuy

What would YOU accept as "Proof" that it is possible to travel beyond Low Earth Orbit?

Do you need to go there yourself?

Would that prove it to you?

Or would you distrust your own senses?

If you are honest, and can admit to yourself that you could convince yourself not to trust your own senses, then you have to admit to yourself that there is NOTHING and NO ONE else that Could prove to you that space travel IS possible

And you are waisting your time with this post.

Edit to add:

That video starts off with a false statement.

It was not Copernicus who discovered the Earth was a globe, but Eratosthenes of Cyrene an Ancient Greek astronomer and scholar, around 1200 years before Mr. C.

a reply to: Bhadhidar

That is my whole point, unless you go to space for yourself your only choice is to believe what astronauts and space agencies have said. Remember, I'm not saying the possibly haven't been to space, I'm saying it's possible that they haven't gone beyond low earth orbit

a reply to: JerseyGuy

Have you ever been to Australia? No? Maybe it doesn't exist.

While I didn't want to bring religion into this and I'm not an overly religious person I just wonder this:

it's easy for many to believe we have gone past low earth orbit but many people make it seem so hard to believe something written about in the Bible several times..the Firmament and mention of "the dome"

a reply to: JerseyGuy

What proof is offered to disprove our ability to go beyond low orbit?

The radiation belt?

How do they think we were able to determine the shape and extent of the Van Allen belts without exploring them?

What is the appeal of believing Man is so limited in his ability to achieve?

a reply to: JerseyGuy

Thank you for that! I guess my whole post is about me being confused now.

Mate if you're not confused you're not doing it properly

a reply to: JerseyGuy
Flat Earthers are delusional. What's their explanation for this?

Me bad...either meteorites are holographic projections or they get flung from the "Firmament."

What I want to get into is the ice wall concept. There are quite a few meteors and stray rocks from outer space. Does the atmosphere encompass the ice wall? Will the meteors damage the ice walls? Should we worry about the ice walls that keep the water in and somewhat maintain our survival? (Considering that Earth has survived billions of years with the ice walls intact, there probably isn't much to worry about. But I have to ask.)

The Ice Wall Guardians use putty to patch it up. NASA has been trying to stop them for years so they can let the world flood and remake it in Their image.

The Ice Wall is just part of the Ice Dome which is itself just The Firmament. So if the putty gives out and NASA wins, then the waters above would pour down into earth and fill us up and we would all drown.

www.theflatearthsociety.org...
Nice to know that the Ice Wall Guardians are protecting us from the waters above! They must have lots of putty.

So basically the opinion of everyone who has replied so far is to disregard anything related to a firmament. There is no possibility of it. Also, that the mention of it in the Bible is to be ignored as well. Is that correct?

originally posted by: JerseyGuy
So basically the opinion of everyone who has replied so far is to disregard anything related to a firmament. There is no possibility of it. Also, that the mention of it in the Bible is to be ignored as well. Is that correct?

Just because something is written in the bible doesn't make it correct... said book is not the end all, be all of knowledge...

Keep in mind the same book says the moon emits its own light... which is just wrong

Not to mention our entire species came from two people.... wrong..

Global flood... never happened....

etc etc...

a reply to: JerseyGuy

So basically the opinion of everyone who has replied so far is to disregard anything related to a firmament. There is no possibility of it. Also, that the mention of it in the Bible is to be ignored as well. Is that correct?

Pretty sure thats not what I said....

a reply to: Charlyboy
Yes except for you of course

Go on YouTube and check out the ISS live stream right now.
Looks pretty spherical to me.