Google Redefines The Word ‘Fascism’ To Smear Conservatives, Protect Liberal Rioters

a reply to: daskakik

I don't know what you consider left-wing positions and I have not counted what or how many positions are in the Manifesto.

I wonder why you wont? Certainly someone of no side would like to see which side of political spectrum the principles of fascism fall under in a debate about fascism.

originally posted by: TheTory
I wonder why you wont?

Why I won't what?

Certainly someone of no side would like to see which side of political spectrum the principles of fascism fall under in a debate about fascism.

I don't know what someone of no side, other than me, might like to see.

Me, I have seen so much conflating that it really doesn't matter.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: Greven

I didn't say anyone was trying to redefine the meaning of right wing.
Read the last few pages if you want to know how I define the right.

Yes, what did you say in the last few pages...

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
The original meaning of a word often changes as the definition matures and becomes more cemented in our language. I also note that you are using the term liberal in the original way it was intended. I would in many regards consider myself a classical liberal but it's clear to me the term liberal means something very different now than what it used to, which is why I refer to myself as a libertarian.

I would suggest that this is in fact 'redefining.'

So, let's go over a few things again:
-Right-wing was originally defined as monarchist - specifically, a group loyal to an absolute monarchy built under Louis the Great.

You'll see some people thinking that the French parlements which existed at the time were legislative bodies (Parlement of Paris was, albeit the most important, one of several), but their only role was to record edicts by the King into law - and the King's will was legally required to be followed. They were essentially judges, and their opposition to the Crown which led to the Revolution era was entirely self-motivated; specifically, they (being nobles) resisted the King's removal of the nobility's privileges, such as immunity to taxation.

-Authoritarian government is where a reigning person or group is unquestionable - the ruled are subservient to the state and the state is, essentially, the ruler(s).
-These two are rather similar; the absolute monarch has the final say in all things, as does the authoritarian dictator.
-Fascism was extremely authoritarian.

Given the above, why do you think it unfair to suggest fascism is right-wing?

Or perhaps more to the point... what are the single points of opposition between left and right?

I would suggest the single points of opposition are the state/people power dynamic:
Right-wing - the people are subservient to the state
Left-wing - the state is subservient to the people

Note - 'the people' as a whole.

I've seen references to capitalism (as opposed to socialism/communism), but capitalism has historically been on the left; the American and French revolutions would not have succeeded were it not - and these revolutions were most decidedly left-wing.

Tenants of capitalism include the free market, a hands-off government, and individual economic freedom; yet, the current American president has talked about pulling out of free trade deals and issuing tariffs. Are not those opposed to capitalism?

Indeed, American politicians are not utterly opposed, but rather their ideas on how to impose government differ:
The American left seek government regulation to enforce their idea of equality.
The American right seek government regulation to enforce their idea of morality.

I would suggest that both oppose classical liberals.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

No, I wouldnt know about it.

But your a bass player so your an exception to the rule.

Unless your bass has more than five strings. Then your a liberal in denial.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
I think its very telling that the only way the right wing republicans can win is by hacking elections, massive disinformation campaigns and apparently a re-writing of history and definitions.

Their entire movement is built on deception, voter suppression, and appealing to ignorance.

This post is sarcastic right? Serious question. I read this and saw some others basically bashing but I saw it as a joke and quit reading. Is it?

originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: daskakik

I don't know what you consider left-wing positions and I have not counted what or how many positions are in the Manifesto.

I wonder why you wont? Certainly someone of no side would like to see which side of political spectrum the principles of fascism fall under in a debate about fascism.

The right, because it supports the God given right of monarchs and emperors to rule over the people. The left places the power in the hands of the electorate. It is only when you add an economic axis defining the amount of economic control that the State has that certain leftists governments can become totalitarian.

ETA: And this is clearly not a "debate about Fascism," it is an attempt to smear Progressive politics by falsely linking it to Fascism. The United States survived the Great Depression as a Liberal Democracy because FDR added just the right amount of "socialism" to prevent either a Communist revolution or a Fascist coup.

We could just vote what political side we find the aspects to be.
I will use Devils for Republican, and Saints for Democrat. We can just imagine 'saint' is being used satirically.

Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt recently wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism.

The 14 characteristics are:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military -
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism -
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6. Controlled Mass Media -
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security -
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected -
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections -
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

I came to 5 'Saints' and 14 'Devils'.

a reply to: Mordekaiser

Here's the irony: each of those regimes was characterized as an "economic miracle!" The partisans on this thread need to sort through their priorities. Would you be willing to live in a Fascist state if your lifestyle improved (albeit at the expense of your political rights and the well being of others)? That is the deal that Russians have made. So long as they have cable TV and their own automobile, they don't care about the sham elections.

Trump's attitude towards "law and order" is centralizing. Federal marijuana laws trump local laws. Federal immigration policies trump local ones. Local cops are expected to share their limited resources with federal agencies. The prison system is to be expanded, and run by cronies.

a reply to: DJW001

America would operate a communist government like the world has never seen in it's unique position. That's interesting to think about.

We've seen Fascism before. Probably the direction we've been going.

Meh. Not as interesting.

originally posted by: DJW001
Trump's attitude towards "law and order" is centralizing. Federal marijuana laws trump local laws. Federal immigration policies trump local ones. Local cops are expected to share their limited resources with federal agencies. The prison system is to be expanded, and run by cronies.

Those policies are not new, and they are not Trump's. We have over 100 years of progressive, modern-liberal Democrat meddling (since the beginning of the so-called 'Progressive Era') to thank for that.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: DJW001
Trump's attitude towards "law and order" is centralizing. Federal marijuana laws trump local laws. Federal immigration policies trump local ones. Local cops are expected to share their limited resources with federal agencies. The prison system is to be expanded, and run by cronies.

Those policies are not new, and they are not Trump's. We have over 100 years of progressive, modern-liberal Democrat meddling (since the beginning of the so-called 'Progressive Era') to thank for that.

So Trump is a "Progressive?" Thanks for clarifying that. (Here I thought the Progressives were for liberalizing marijuana laws and closing down the Prison Industry!)

a reply to: Kali74

Okay, so since the Kkk and neo nazis support Trump he must be a nazis?? Do you not hear yourself talk. Hitler was a Democrat, he hated everything to do with conservatism. The left wing party system were for slavery and the conservative side wanted it gone. I don't see much of a difference between what us happening now and what did happen ages ago. Liberals/ aka nazis are doing the same thing they did ages ago with the white male/ Jews. Pretty soon you lunatics will be rounding up white males and putting them in concentration camps. You guys are already redefining words, and using censorship, all the things Hitler did before he started executing Jews. Plus, Hitler lied to the people, told them horrible lies about the Jews, basicalky brainwshed people into thinking they were the enemy. WhaT are college professors doung, lying to all of you, and we the Antifa, or in Hitler day, his army. Do you see a correlation here yet? Can you wrap your tiny brain around that? No, you can't because media, college, brainwashing. Oh and who was in charge of the media back then? Hitler! Who.told people what to.print and not print to control Germany? Hitler! Who controls the liberals of today, the media, who controls the media, who ever is in charge of the liberals!!
Your new slaves, the illegals, why do you guys want them around, so you don't have to pay them the full amount. You basically want the low paying jobs to go to the illegals so the suburbs in California can look pretty. You guys are using the illegals to do the jobs you don't want to do. What did the slaves do back in.the day? The jobs that nobody else wanted to do! Except they didn't get paid, like the new slaves do. They too were promised a better life, just like we lie to the illegals and make them believe the same thing. Funny how history repeats itself!

a reply to: liliththedestroyer

Wow. What color is the sky in your reality? Hitler was placed in power by the remains of the old aristocracy, the very definition of the right. He was vehemently opposed to democracy, and his "socialism" consisted of working people to death.

a reply to: infolurker

fascism is the merging of business with gov't.

a reply to: liliththedestroyer

Hmm perhaps you've heard of this quotation, by a Protestant German pastor who opposed Hitler:

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

I would not be surprised if you did not hear the first part of it - the part before the Jews bit:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Yeah...

a reply to: liliththedestroyer

Trump himself is a liberal. The issue with Trump is he's a figurehead and isn't actually running the show. The GOP guides him and he walks that walk.

Hitler convinced a bunch of people to do bad things in his name.
Trump is a puppet not even internally responsible for most of the things his administration pushes through.

So there's one huge difference despite how much the GOP does infact act like Nazi's.

Your comment about how white males will be the ones rounded up is amusing, and the furthest comment from the truth. People that think white males are going to be put in concentration camps need psychiatric help.

originally posted by: richapau
a reply to: infolurker

fascism is the merging of business with gov't.

So a profitable dictatorship.

a reply to: Mordekaiser
It's an interesting phenomenon, because capitalism is something that is on the left.

Yet, with increases in power (and money is power), business interests can usurp the rights and freedoms of the people.

However, moving the concentration of power towards the state ends up undermining capitalism.

Fascism ended up being totalitarian, which is when the state seeks to control every aspect of individuals' lives.

The label 'totalitarian' could easily be applied to Soviet Russia, Fascist Italy, and Nazi Germany - but of these three countries, each used rather different economic systems.

Russia forbade private ownership; private businesses were completely abolished under Soviet Russia.

Germany had private ownership, if not much freedom of direction; numerous private businesses that existed under Nazi Germany still exist to this day.

Italy had pseudo-private ownership; the lower legislature under Mussolini eventually was made up of various industrial syndicates - the Chamber of Fascist Corporations. These syndicates oversaw production and Mussolini himself ended up having to compromise with these big businesses to get things done.