Leaked Draft of Trump’s Religious Freedom Order Reveals Sweeping Plans to Legalize Discrimination

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: tanstaafl

Apparently "plain old right & wrong" doesn't exist in this country, because it took that law to force American businesses to stop discriminating based on race. Did you know that the State of Mississippi even banned the kids show "Sesame Street" because it had a racially diverse cast? And that was in 1970, 6 years after the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed. So clearly they didn't share in your sense of "plain old right & wrong" then, either.

Is that true about Sesame St? Never knew that.

Still it does raise an interesting point - if a minority group is under represented then it should be looked at but also if it is over representative. BOTH could be forms of discrimination.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Again, biology says that your argument is null and void. Going by biology, you would have people who appear male wandering into the ladies and some people who appear female wandering into the gents, because that is what their genes (the essence, the beginning of their biology) dictate.

Its nonsense. Going into the bathroom with which they are most comfortable however, would not be logically flawed, because as we are increasingly finding out today, gender is NOT as simple as the fact averse, fundamentalists on the right would have you believe.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Again, biology says that your argument is null and void. Going by biology, you would have people who appear male wandering into the ladies and some people who appear female wandering into the gents, because that is what their genes (the essence, the beginning of their biology) dictate.

Its nonsense. Going into the bathroom with which they are most comfortable however, would not be logically flawed, because as we are increasingly finding out today, gender is NOT as simple as the fact averse, fundamentalists on the right would have you believe.

Yes gender is very very simple.

Males and females have different bodies (I won't explain and assume you understand).
A tiny minority of people are born with both sex organs, with or without the ability to carry a child.

A man who decides he wants to live as a woman is a man.
A woman who decides she wants to live as a man is a woman.

That's about the sum of it.

There is really no need to over complicate it.

a reply to: UKTruth

Actually no, there is no need to over complicate it, as you just did by suggesting that this is a matter of a man simply deciding to become a woman, or a woman simply deciding to become a man.

Gender dysphoria is not a choice people make, it is a condition with which a person is born, and it is not a strictly mental one either. There are hormonal differences between a man who has gender dysphoria, and one who does not. There are differences in neural connectivity, brain wave function, and a whole host of other entirely biological and physical differences involved.

But people rarely actually interact with the fact of that, unless they are willing to accept what they find out, which, invariably, is that things are less simple than they want them to be.

a reply to: olaru12

Can a christian refuse service to another christian of a different denomination? You can certainly hide racial discrimination in that concept.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Again, biology says that your argument is null and void. Going by biology, you would have people who appear male wandering into the ladies and some people who appear female wandering into the gents, because that is what their genes (the essence, the beginning of their biology) dictate.

Its nonsense. Going into the bathroom with which they are most comfortable however, would not be logically flawed, because as we are increasingly finding out today, gender is NOT as simple as the fact averse, fundamentalists on the right would have you believe.

Yes gender is very very simple.

Males and females have different bodies (I won't explain and assume you understand).
A tiny minority of people are born with both sex organs, with or without the ability to carry a child.

A man who decides he wants to live as a woman is a man.
A woman who decides she wants to live as a man is a woman.

That's about the sum of it.

There is really no need to over complicate it.

I'm a conservative, and I have a psychology degree that I have never used professionally (I'm in land development, lol), but back when I was in grad school (early 1990's), the "deviance" of gender dysphoria (GD) was just beginning to creep into the DSM as a "conditional disorder" (these days I believe the term is "mental condition").

GD is an extremely rare condition. The Left always grossly exaggerates the raw numbers within the various grievance groups they use to forward their agenda, but among them, those who can legitimately be diagnosed with GD are truly a very tiny group.

Again, I am in no way up-to-date on the current diagnostics and clinical data, but back not that long ago, a surgical solution to the GD "disorder" was the very last option. Until fairly recently, there were very few surgeons in this country who did gender re-assignment operations. There's a reason for that...

The majority of those diagnosed with GD have more common underlying psychological disorders like major depression, anxiety disorders, and borderline schizophrenia with episodic psychosis. The biggest problem in treating those with GD is that it's hard to know whether treating the underlying psychological disorders will mitigate the GD itself or the other way around.

GD can be successfully treated as the disorder it is using a combination of psychotherapy, psychotropic drugs, and behavioral and cognitive therapy. Again, this goes back 25 years, but reassignment surgery was never considered a "cure" for GD, and i'm not sure it is today. My guess is that it actually makes things worse in many cases.

I would like to see some data on the suicide rate of those diagnosed with GD who have undergone reassignment surgery. My guess is that it's exponentially higher than average, and that would tell me that reassignment itself is definitely NOT a "cure".

I have empathy for anyone in mental anguish, and without a doubt, folks legitimately suffering from GD and associated mental disorders should receive all the help they can get for their conditions.

However, there are some out there who are clearly just perverts taking advantage of the current liberal/media fixation on GD, and who really just want an excuse to pee in little girl's toilets. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if these perverts outnumbered the folks who can legitimately be diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: UKTruth

Actually no, there is no need to over complicate it, as you just did by suggesting that this is a matter of a man simply deciding to become a woman, or a woman simply deciding to become a man.

Gender dysphoria is not a choice people make, it is a condition with which a person is born, and it is not a strictly mental one either. There are hormonal differences between a man who has gender dysphoria, and one who does not. There are differences in neural connectivity, brain wave function, and a whole host of other entirely biological and physical differences involved.

But people rarely actually interact with the fact of that, unless they are willing to accept what they find out, which, invariably, is that things are less simple than they want them to be.

Mental disorders should be treated, but certainly no need for new bathrooms.

originally posted by: olaru12

If signed, the order would create wholesale exemptions for people and organizations who claim religious objections to same-sex marriage, premarital sex, abortion, and trans identity.

TRUMP does this because of the Muslims in the USA?