The two Koreas - Education thread

I have noticed in many a thread about the rising tensions about North Korea that most people have absolutely no idea what North Korea is really about, what South Korea wants and how the USA fits into all of this.

Well first off, Korea was a part of the Japanese Empire - Japan ceded control of the peninsula after surrendering in WW2.

The division of Korea between North and South Korea was the result of the Allied victory in World War II in 1945, ending the Empire of Japan's 35-year rule of Korea. The United States and the Soviet Union occupied the country, with the boundary between their zones of control along the 38th parallel. With the onset of the Cold War, negotiations between the United States and the Soviet Union failed to lead to an independent, unified Korea. In 1948, UN-supervised elections were held in the US-occupied south only. This led to the establishment of the Republic of Korea in South Korea, which was promptly followed by the establishment of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea in North Korea. The United States supported the South, and the Soviet Union supported the North, and each government claimed sovereignty over the whole Korean peninsula. The Korean War (1950–1953) left the two Koreas separated by the Korean Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) in the later part of the Cold War and beyond.

en.wikipedia.org...

As one can see above, Korea was divided, like Germany was by Russia and the USA. It was meant to be re-unified but never was. Then Stalin installed the lovely Kim regime, personally writing the constitution for the DPRK himself.

In the video below, one can see for themselves that both Koreas would like to reunite. NK wants to do it by force and SK wants to do it through reconciliation and co-operation. The North built no less that 4 tunnels under the DMZ with the goal of storming Seoul while the South sought co-operation and reconciliation to make a train line to reunite the two capital cities.



Here below we see a South Koreans perspective on everything



As you can see, she heavily blames the USA for the current situation. What she fails to recognise (and taken advantage of by a biased RT reporter) is that the USA saved South Korea from becoming a communist state. South Korea has had decades more financial success from being part of the west - North Korea is like a time warp in terms of daily life, while China did not start to modernise until the 1990's.

The real problem is that nobody told North Korea that China and Russia have moved on a bit - they are not the decadent capitalists democracies of the west, but they sure have opened up and are participating in the global sphere after many decades of isolation (though admittedly Russia is creeping backward at the moment)

For those who ask what America has to do with this situation, the answer is everything. They are both the South's saviours and their curse. North Korea is single minded about reunification through force and their plan always was and is to storm Seoul and take the rest of the country by force to assimilate it into their regime.

In conclusion; North and South Korea are cold war relics. They are a demarcation line where the gauntlet was thrown down between the communist East (Russia and China) and the capitalist West (USA) The problem is that this relic is a live landmine just waiting for a US president to make the wrong decision and restart a war that this time around will most likely be nuclear.

originally posted by: markosity1973The problem is that this relic is a live landmine just waiting for a US president to make the wrong decision and restart a war that this time around will most likely be nuclear.

What hope is there that it does not turn into a war eventually?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: markosity1973The problem is that this relic is a live landmine just waiting for a US president to make the wrong decision and restart a war that this time around will most likely be nuclear.

What hope is there that it does not turn into a war eventually?

Well, as the South Korean lady points out, China is not that motivated to do anything from it's side because of the USA's THAAD missile defense system. It's radar is a little too invasive for their liking.

Russia knows that if it gets involved it's just going to be Armageddon.

So really, the only hope is

A) The pudgy dictator chokes on a spring roll and dies

or

B) He comes to his senses and does a u-turn on the missile / nuclear programme.

I can't see either happening, so our only hope is that Trump really did write the book on making the deal and that he did it in preparation for the most challenging situation of his life and career - dealing with NK as POTUS,

a reply to: markosity1973


North Korea is the relic here. Its also still a barking Dog proxy.

a reply to: markosity1973

So from your post, the only way to keep NK from getting nukes capable of hitting the US is by war.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: markosity1973


Its also still a barking Dog proxy.

I'm not so sure about that any more. Here is the press conference from Putin's meeting with Japan's PM Abe



Putin is very interested in improving ties with Japan. He is calling for calm over NK.

I think NK was the barking dog. Now it's just got rabies and has gone completely rabid in the absence of it's former master.

Oh, how simple you make it sound. Now the truth. If you were a Korean just which part of Korea would you want to live? North or South?
Now the South wants to bring together their country by peaceful negotiations the North by force. There is a giant snake in the grass that you fail to mention.
Not only the Souths government but the Souths people want unification. Whereas the Norths people have not the slightest chance of their voices being heard as ALL the decisions are made by one person and his small cadre of military people and that snake WILL NOT let them have a say and never will.
So I would imagine that the North Korean PEOPLE would love a peaceful unification but one person wont allow that because he is keeping his people in permanent fear for their safety and lives.
Now the question is "who is the stumbling block here and it's not the US and it's not the South Koreans"?

originally posted by: markosity1973
Putin is very interested in improving ties with Japan. He is calling for calm over NK.

I think NK was the barking dog. Now it's just got rabies and has gone completely rabid in the absence of it's former master.

He is calling for others to be calm. It would be like if my pitbull started threatening your children, and rather than calm my dog, I tell you to be calm and ignore it.

That will only work for so long.

Putin and China will be happy to let their enemies (The US) clean up their mess though.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: markosity1973

So from your post, the only way to keep NK from getting nukes capable of hitting the US is by war.

Not necessarily, but we are the closest to an all out confrontation we have been since the armistice was signed.

Successive Presidents have tried various things in order to try and stop the nuclear weapon development program (Clinton GAVE them a Nuke) and then backed out. So the North has zero trust in them any more.

The issue is extremely complicated and NK feels threatened and very isolated. Everyone knows that if you corner a wild animal it becomes dangerous and unpredictable.

Extreme diplomacy, intelligent dialogue and integrity from both sides is where hope lies if a peaceful resolution is to be achieved at all.

a reply to: markosity1973


But he may be just trying to beat Americas time, as it were, with Japan. Russia is savy enough not to want to look like they are stuck in a time, walking their dog but walking it none the less. Japan maybe role playing to here with Russia. After all whats go these two to the table> NK. Have we heard Russia taking any responsibility for NK? No it a tool and still is.

a reply to: markosity1973
I'm not a watcher of videos. Do they say much about the Chinese element in the situation? How when the United Nations forces pushed forward into the north, it was the Chinese army that responded and pushed them back again? How Douglas MacArthur speculated too recklessly about the need to take the war direct to the Chinese, and had to be sacked?
That is the kind of history which we don't want to be repeated.

a reply to: markosity1973


They have been firing off missiles for years when no one was bothering them. Leadership in NK are nuts and a lose cannon in the world. Their problem is not isolation but a madness. Maybe some serious attention will get them to the table and some changes......like the US building another ex-red country like it has China with its own economy.

a reply to: Logarock

I'll let you draw your on conclusions on this speculative report from Israel, but this guy believes that Russia may have shot down the missile that NK launched just the other day. He believes that Russia are trying to avoid going to war with the USA - because they know what is at stake here.

He makes a lot of sense, particularly in terms of how and why it could blow up into WW3 beyond a confrontation between the USA and NK.



The potential for this whole thing to boil over and end up in WW3

a reply to: markosity1973

Backed out? The North would extort deals and keep on working on nukes and missiles anyways. Their goal was ALWAYS war to take back SK. Nothing short of war was ever going to work, ever. Nothing has changed, except they are closer to hitting the US.

a reply to: markosity1973

Why would Russia or China create WW3 over NK?

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: markosity1973
I'm not a watcher of videos. Do they say much about the Chinese element in the situation? How when the United Nations forces pushed forward into the north, it was the Chinese army that responded and pushed them back again? How Douglas MacArthur speculated too recklessly about the need to take the war direct to the Chinese, and had to be sacked?
That is the kind of history which we don't want to be repeated.

Yes, the Korean lady mentions that is why there was an armistice signed. Because the POTUS of the day did not want to use Nukes against the Chinese for fear of starting WW3 only a few short years after WW2 had ended.

There was also supposed to be a peace plan worked on within 90 days of the armistice being signed. Over 60 years later and no peace plan has been brokered.

Both countries (USA and NK) are and have been all along in the wartime mentality with one another.

a reply to: markosity1973

The US is not in wartime mentality towards the NK.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Yes and nothing as demonstrated over time more stupidity than for the US to have split the country as an appeasement, a show of something, toward its former communist superpower allies China and Russia even early on when it was clear Stalin didn't give our sentiments a rats ass. Large and major american FP fail.

Well maybe Yugoslavia being set up as a country with other parts of countries with mixed ethnicity to demonstrate some sort of Kumbaya.

With Korea folks really underestimate the strong tribal identity the Koreans have. Korea doesn't see itself as part of the larger race anyless than say the Irish of Germans do.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Have you not seen the news lately?

NK may have been on the back burner in terms of media coverage for many years until recently, but go visit the DMZ and you will find that I am not kidding.

It does not matter who is the provocateur, neither nation has stepped down the military presence on their side of the DMZ since it was created.

ETA Neither China nor Russia really want to have the USA and it's military add their neighbor. So for them, maintaining NKs independence is of strategic importance.

Therefore they would be motivated to intervene in NK if the USA strikes.

a reply to: markosity1973

The US has not been in a war mentality. That's a huge part of the appeasement problem. We are at the end of appeasement, and it has gone on so long, that war is likely the only option left, because all other options require time, a well past presidents have drained dry.