Can monsters ever be reformed?

Arkansas goes ahead with double execution

THE first double execution to be carried out in the US in 16 years has been completed, but not without complication.

The execution of a second Arkansas man killed by lethal injection Monday was interrupted after lawyers claimed the first was still moving more than five minutes after he was issued a sedative.

Rapist and murderer Jack Jones was given the injection and pronounced dead at 7.20pm Monday (10.20am Tuesday AEST), but lawyers for fellow inmate Marcel Williams claimed the death row killing was botched.

Following Jones’s execution, lawyers for Williams claimed officials spent 45 minutes trying to place an IV line in Jones’s neck before placing it elsewhere. In a last-minute appeal, they said Jones was still conscious, moving his lips and “gulping for air” after being administered with the sedative midazolam that is supposed to render inmates unconscious, according to local media reports.

The state’s attorney general’s office disputed Williams’s legal team’s account, and US District Judge Kristine Baker decided the punishment would go ahead.

Williams, who was also on death row for murder and rape, was pronounced dead at 10.33pm, 17 minutes after the procedure began.

Do you believe Monsters are forever beyond reform?

I will sound naive and gullible for admitting this, but yes, I do believe even the WORST of the WORST can eventually be reformed. Nobody can be 100% certified evil. They can be 99.999999% evil, but not completely beyond being reformed. Of course, the closer to 100% evil you reach, the more difficult, time consuming and resource-destroying it will become, so it is not technically possible for the WORST of the WORST to be rehabilitated before they die (unless they live to the age of at least 100).

I haven't really thought about this topic in such a deep way before, but the above article got me thinking: "In the one guys final note, what personal or spiritual gain could he have benefited from saying what he did choose to say, which isn't even mandatory to do?

To me it seems like a person who has reached a level of understanding that is so strong that all he can do is express how sorry he feels for what he did in an effort to make his victim's family suffering easier to cope with from the moment he dies and onward. Would a monster truly be capable of such a feat? I don't believe so.

Edit: You can choose to view this thread as a reference to the issue of whether Corporal punishment is correct, but I only just thought of that now, after posting it. I don't think it's necessary to discuss, but feel free to do so if you want to.

Define monsters ? ......I think some little kids are monsters!! (But, they can be fixed if you teach them at a young age)... As for the people who are serial killers , rapist or who just want to hurt other people, .....No...you can't fix them. Just get rid of them. No innocent person should have to suffer ,be tortured, physically harmed , or targeted by the hands of another .... . Some people are just wired wrong.

No. There are just some crimes that deserve the death penalty and if I had my way, there are many who would die a hell of a lot slower.

originally posted by: DAVID64
No. There are just some crimes that deserve the death penalty and if I had my way, there are many who would die a hell of a lot slower.

I always thought that the really bad guys...serial killers etc....should be executed publically on pay per view , or something similar.....And the money you pay to watch should go to charities and education, homeless vets , etc.....it's a very morbid thought, I know...but...I'm all for getting rid of these psychos.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

it's not about reform it's about punishment. you rape and kill someone, no matter how sorry or remorseful you become later, you still should forfeit your life. why should you get to live when your victim doesn't?

We are all different.

Most are wired properly, and have understanding and proper cognitive functions.

Just like physical birth defects the mind is also not always proper.

There is still ones conscious to listen to. However, I do wonder if some are just soulless and have no conscious.

Rehabilitation has had varying rate of success and failure. It is all dependent on the individual; Manson for example, is a lost cause.

Personally, I think if you have committed atrocities you should be sent on to the next life. No sense in sheltering and feeding a monster for decades, especially when an honest person has to work and toil for everything they need, and on top of it support a monster via taxes.

originally posted by: Cygnis
We are all different.

Most are wired properly, and have understanding and proper cognitive functions.

Just like physical birth defects the mind is also not always proper.

There is still ones conscious to listen to. However, I do wonder if some are just soulless and have no conscious.

Rehabilitation has had varying rate of success and failure. It is all dependent on the individual; Manson for example, is a lost cause.

Personally, I think if you have committed atrocities you should be sent on to the next life. No sense in sheltering and feeding a monster for decades, especially when an honest person has to work and toil for everything they need, and on top of it support a monster via taxes.

Your last paragraph is not an easy one to digest, but it is a truthful one. Perhaps CP for the WORST of the WORST is a necessary evil after all...

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
it's not about reform it's about punishment. you rape and kill someone, no matter how sorry or remorseful you become later, you still should forfeit your life. why should you get to live when your victim doesn't?

Jail/Prison is actually not about reform or punishment either. It's actually about separating those who are a danger to the rest of civilised society from those who are not.

originally posted by: DAVID64
No. There are just some crimes that deserve the death penalty and if I had my way, there are many who would die a hell of a lot slower.

I understand your desire for revenge. However, it's not guilty until innocent for a reason. The problem with the death penalty is that sometimes the wrong person is put to death. You may be okay with that. Maybe for you our justice system is best served when 1 out of 10 people put to death is actually innocent is okay for you.

However, that is not the way our justice system currently works. We have innocent until proven guilty. The idea is it is better to let some criminals get away with murder rather than killing someone who is innocent. There are 100s of people who were proven to be innocent after they were executed. The cases well documented.

I think life in prison would be a better option than the state execution. I just think the chance of people getting it wrong is too high. It's a question of values. Some people are okay if innocent people are put the death. I am not. Evil people are going to murder people whether we have the death penalty or not. I'm not sure revenge is that important.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Jail/Prison is actually not about reform or punishment either. It's actually about separating those who are a danger to the rest of civilised society from those who are not.

you better go back and check again, there are people in jail that are not there for violent crimes, they are there becauce they broke the law and are being punished.

haven't you ever heard the term crime and punishment.

and this from the, wiki

A prison, correctional facility, detention center, jail (gaol in dated British English), penitentiary (sometime used in American English) or remand centre[a] is a facility in which inmates are forcibly confined and denied a variety of freedoms under the authority of the state. Prisons are most commonly used within a criminal justice system: people charged with crimes may be imprisoned until they are brought to trial; those pleading or being found guilty of crimes at trial may be sentenced to a specified period of imprisonment. Besides their use for punishing crimes, jails and prisons are frequently used by authoritarian regimes against perceived opponents.
Prison

The Loch Ness monster cannot be reformed I tell you! He will eat fisher folk till the day he dies!

Nope . Theres some in this world that cannot ever be reformed .

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Only if they really want to be. But most monsters enjoy being monsters.

I dont get it , someone kills another person and that is bad . Then they are killed and its ok . Am i missing something .

It has never been about reforming..it has always been about punishment.

But there are some crimes that I feel show enough of the soul of the individual that leads me to believe there is no hope to reform them ever.

Torture the victim, crimes against children, things like that... better to remove them than risk them repeating the crime.

originally posted by: DAVID64
No. There are just some crimes that deserve the death penalty and if I had my way, there are many who would die a hell of a lot slower.

Wouldn't "Life in prison without the possibility of parole" deliver exactly the same ?

a reply to: hutch622

I dont get it , someone kills another person and that is bad . Then they are killed and its ok . Am i missing something .

nope you got it right, and not missing a thing. they killed someone, in these cases with malice.

in 1995 jones raped and killed Mary Phillips. he strangled her with the cord to a coffee pot.

in 1994 Williams kidnapped, raped and killed 22-year-old Stacy Errickson, he also kidnapped and raped two other women before that. and admitted to it.

both men got to live 20 some odd years longer than their victims.

i personally say good riddance. the state of Arkansas has seen to it that those who are a danger to the rest of civilized society will never be a danger again. punished for their crimes, no matter how sorry they were for it afterwards. but i dare say their sorrow wasn't as much for their viticms and their family's as it was for themselves.

Before we move forward in any manner in the future of this world, we must first find a way to adequately identify the psychopath and drive them from society by means of treatment. We must be careful not to become what we seek to destroy.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

If you are Christian you should believe this intrinsically. It's what Jesus preached. "All can be forgiven" means that anyone can rise above their evil, recognize it, atone and be a better person.

But even as an atheist, I'm for reform over punishment. I feel like punishment is just a means to make people feel better about being wronged. It helps in a catharsis way for the victims, but does nothing to prevent or deter the crime in the first place. Nor does it serve as a tool to make criminals stop being criminals. Time and again you hear people refer to prison as college for criminals. Go in for a shop lifting charge and come out with knowledge on how to steal identities and other # like that.

If we want to fix recidivism rates we need to overcome our desire for revenge for the victims in order to rehabilitate these people so they don't recommit. Let them prove to us they are beyond redemption after many failures instead of writing them off altogether after one major offense. I know this is possible too as there are countries like in Scandinavia that have EXCELLENT prison systems.

a reply to: sooth

that's all fine until that day. but until that day comes, if circumstances warrant the death penalty then it's the way it should be.

and i got news for ya, the world will never be the utopia that people want. there will always be those that will rebel against it, for one reason or another. which should be a topic for a new thread.