A Reason for Faith in Jesus Christ

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Bless you too. Praise the Lord

originally posted by: thepixelpusher
God wants everyone to know he wants a relationship with them.

Yes, and we get nudges as we fall away and rely exclusively on our own will and intellect and "rational self interest", even if only because those things ultimately ring hollow. "Vanity, vanity all is vanity!" (King Solomon).
Without God and when just on our own, everything just kind of winds down and that certain "je ne sais quoi" or "joie de vivre" to use a couple of French sayings, is lost, and then we are lost, until from some dark and lonely place we cry out for God's presence and lo and behold wasn't he there all along watching over us, and knowing full well that we would not be lost to him or taken from his hand.

It's still up to us though to make a move in a certain direction in the right kind of spirit and truth at heart, and then watch how fast God moves to greet us, not unlike the father in the parable of the prodigal son.

Personally, I don't have any taste for the inauthentic Christian experience of "Churchianity".

That said, we do need to be in touch with other believers and likeminded people, which validates our testimony and strengthens us to go out into a crazy world with courage, faith and trust in God who transcends the petty dramas and all the absurdities of the injustices and the vicissitudes and trials and tribulations of life, where underneath it all is an eternity with God in Spirit, whereby even death loses its sting.

Grace upon grace. Joy upon joy, even in the midst and in the face of heartache and loss.

So it needed to be communicated, and communicated it was, and is.

It is good that the conversation about Jesus goes on, whether for, or against, because that which we resist, persists.. lol

I think that God is particularly interested in atheists, because when they break in favor of God, something very remarkable takes place.

God doesn't seem to mind if we wrestle with our faith and even with God. Any approach will do.

God doesn't require idol worship. His aim is to build us into spiritual higher beings to contribute to the growth of this Universe he created. Even if you don't believe that, you have to believe that contributing positively to this planet makes a difference. God just operates on a bigger scale. We are all immortal spirits that inhabit this earth body to learn and grow. This is but one stop on a journey to enlightenment and total love. Embrace the challenge here and grow as a soul/spirit. Remember, Life is the classroom and love is the lesson.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

yes you are right in saying that we need to share our testimony with like minded people

originally posted by: NightFlight
If you really believe the bible, read Deuteronomy 5: 7-11; and I'm paraphrasing, do not place ANYTHING before God. Not in heaven or on earth or below the earth, cause if you do, you and at least five to six of your future generations will be cursed for blasphemy. If you believe you have to first believe in christ to get to heaven as it is written in the new testament, well, it ain't gonna happen.

Sorry...

With Jesus - all the old laws are gone. You still need to do all you can to follow the gospel - and the then commandments but Jesus replaces the law.

NO ONE could get to heaven following the law of the Old Testament.

With Jesus? Anyone who proclaims His name before God and Man? Jesus will proclaim their name before God.

a reply to: silo13


Jesus doesn't do away with the law, but completes it and makes it whole when we break integrity with it.

It's to be written in our heart of hearts whereby Jesus makes it possible to increasingly operate within it. It's the law of life and love, the very heart of which is mercy.

Thank-You for such a lovely tribute to Jesus Christ.....I've read what you have said several times and have had hours long conversations in my head about how to respond, it really moved me very much. I think of myself as a reasonably smart and kind person, but my Faith in EVERYTHING has been shaken to the core...weirdly enough, to deny Jesus was never really that much on my radar, whoever Jesus was or stood for was always worthy of my respect.

So I have spent countless hours researching every rabbit hole you could imagine, and after recently losing the Love of my Life to cancer a few months ago, having Faith became some REAL reality I couldn't even imagine, he told me he made Peace with God, and he / we tried to make the most of his good days....lot's of camping....Nature healed him for the time there, he was happy.

I used to think this was a love song between an estranged couple, it never occurred to me this was a song to Jesus....all logical roads lead to him...

a reply to: MountainLaurel


I am so sorry for your loss, but am also happy that he came to the place of acceptance and grace.

If it was like with my mother, there was even grace upon grace in the dying process itself, and you were there with him as a fellow journeyer.

There's something about love, and by that I'm talking about real love, not romantic love, which comes and goes, that is everlasting and eternal.

I have no doubt that he's with God, and remains there, not just within you as a memory (like they say) but as himself with his own integrity, no matter how hard that might be for us to understand or fathom. In God and with God.

So like me you have a saint in heaven! and even though we're not supposed to try to actively communicate with the passed on, at the most fundamental level we just know that they never really died as in dead as a doornail, and somehow Jesus played a role in this entire familial frame of reference wherein saints in heaven live and do whatever they do. I hate the term RIP. My mother isn't resting in peace, she's active at some level or another, always loving and helping as per her nature. In many ways the best parts of me are her and Jesus, and there's no amount of Jesus that's capable of ruining a personality! lol

Thank you for your feedback. So much appreciated. Glad too that I've left it in my signature for anyone who might have an interest, a curiosity, or even a mere inkling that there might be something to all this Jesus business.

I feel that somehow, in the midst of all the words, that I've managed to put forth a reasonable basis for faith, but what makes it reasonable is that it's available for testing in the internal domain of one's personal experience. It's a compelling argument that's also framed within a personal psychological and thus, spiritual, context. It's very personal, but there's nowhere to run.. lol

So it's not just stone cold reason devoid of emotion or imagination; it's not an argument set apart, as if arguing the historical Jesus or the historicity of the Bible and New Testament and pointing outside myself or the reader's mind's eye.., and saying - "there, there he is, believe in him", no, what I'm suggesting instead is a mere consideration, to seek him out perhaps first in the gospels, and then measure it all and him according to a standard that at some level, deep down, remains and is available to us all. And then we come to see even though we were so blind, and that's funny! There are tears, tears of joy, of regret, and then of hilarity at our own prior absurdity in our measure of ourselves and our fellow man according to the lowest common denominator and/or an ill-informed opinion ABOUT this or that, here and there, then and now, me and you. Absurd!

The best things in the world and life, are invisible. But it's perfectly ok to test it on the testing ground of the knowledge of a personal experience, and play it all out and run it down; to seek, and in so doing, find, to knock and have the door opened to us, even to our astonishment and sense of unworthiness.

Jesus is a laughing friend with a very strong arm and grip who's capable of saving us from our own ignorance and absurdity.

Faith in him and what he's all about as an indomitable rock of reason and logic is all that's left when everything that is NOT reasonable, or of any lasting value, is carved away.

I'm glad he did what he did. It was the right thing to do, and it's about freaking TIME that we started to catch up to it at long last, to "grok" of it by making the attempt to sympathize with Him, then revel in it and share it openly as something that's freely available to all who thirst.

Are we not bride's of Christ, for better or for worst? Did He not say that he would never leave us or forsake us or turn us away in any honest and authentic approach (in spirit and in truth)?

God bless you dear.

You are surely comforted in your mourning, and are surely blessed for seeing God's Grace writ large.

Once we know it, we can't unknown it.

My hope is that someone, like yourself, might see the reasonableness of it, and experience the joy on the far side of sorrow and suffering, heartache and loss which transcends it, and then laugh or giggle, again, and for all the right reasons.

It's supra-rational and ultra-reasonable and it cannot be approached with a contemptuous bias, prior to investigation, so the atheists are screwed as well if they are willing to consider things willingly and open-mindedly, from the POV of their own internal faculty of reason and logic framed by a personal inward experience where any truth can be weighed and evaluated when it arises for consideration; the word.

What's both sad and funny, however, is that for some, they could read this whole thread and not understand any bit of it for the life of themselves...

But if I'm not crazy, then what would mean they are..

Anyway, it's valid and much greater than we can even imagine, the depth and breadth of God's love, and isn't it evidenced in the creation itself?

It's breathtaking.

Thanks again.

Best wishes,

Ankh

Sure there is some good wisdom in the NT but this hippy-Jesus you speak of isn't real. There is also a dark side full of eternal suffering and endless fire for non-believers.
He came not for peace but with a sword. A sword for non-believers. It's all over the NT. This is violent and bad fiction.



Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire."

The children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire:

suffer eternally in hell

originally posted by: MountainLaurel
...after recently losing the Love of my Life to cancer a few months ago...

Sending up a prayer that one day soon that the two of you will be reunited and all of the pain and disappointment will be long forgotten.

I recommend that you read a book written by Rebecca Springer called "Within the Gates" (formerly titled "Intra Muros")

It is one of my favorite books and it will help you stay strong during times of grief.

"Within the Gates" (formerly titled "Intra Muros" after the Latin for the same phrase and originally published in 1895) is the remarkable account of author Rebecca Springer's experience of being taken to Heaven in her spirit while her body lay dying and unconscious for several weeks. This is an excellent book to give to grieving family members.

The copyright has long since expired and the PDF can be found here and here

During a very severe illness, Rebecca found herself alone with no one at her side and needing comfort turned to Jesus. Jesus was at her side and led her to the "promised land" where she was taken to visit relatives and friends who had passed over.

Her description of several "mansions" that have been prepared for the newly departed is very comforting and one realizes that we are just a "heartbeat" away from the other side.

The "refreshing water" from the lake where one is renewed and refreshed after passing over is very illuminating. Within the Gates.

"Within the Gates" (formerly titled "Intra Muros" after the Latin for the same phrase and originally published in 1895) is the remarkable account of author Rebecca Springer's experience of being taken to Heaven in her spirit while her body lay dying and unconscious for several weeks.

Springer recounts in vivid detail the things which she saw, heard and tasted in Heaven. She also talks of family and loved ones with whom she was immediately reunited with. She describes meeting Jesus (the Master) for the first time and His incredible love for all of Heaven's inhabitants, as well as His concern for those still on Earth. She describes the heavenly mansions and dwelling places and the way that nothing in Heaven is impure or corrupt. "Not an atom of debris, nor even dust, was visible anywhere," she describes.

She explains how Heaven's inhabitants are frequently engaged in missions or tasks that are an extension of God's callings and gifting in their earth-life. She recounts how artists, musicians, authors and speakers all practice their skills regularly, honing them to perfection with the goal of continuing to use them for God's honor throughout eternity. She even describes her experience of corporate worship at a heavenly temple, and recalling how there were no churches or denominations in Heaven, just one faith for all. Intra Muros

Within Heaven's Gates (radio drama theater version) I know this doesn't include everything in the book for to do that the video would have to be 5 hours long. I just highlighted and picked out some of the best scenes of her vision.

a reply to: MountainLaurel

Remember, no one is ever lost. We are all eternal spirits. tied to a common source of Love that pervades our Universe and all dimensions courtesy of God.. We are all one and we can be together after this life experience.

a reply to: swedy13

You should read Simon Greenleaf's "The Testimonies of the Evangelists". He was a co-founder of the Harvard Law School and the worldwide authority on the the rules of legal evidence in the 19th century.

He makes an important point most if not all Americans totally miss about "the nature of evidence". That not all things are susceptible of scientific proof, or as he called it "demonstration". And, he introduces the natural of moral evidence, them being almost exclusively outside of scientific evidence. These he calls the "evidence in the ordinary course of human behavior". I think that's how he described it and I haven't read it in almost 10 years, but it is close.

For instance, how are you scientifically going to prove you brushed your teeth this morning? Or that you did any of the many things you did in the last week? You're not going to be able to do that. That's a poor description of what Greenleaf was describing as moral evidence. The testimony of individuals is moral evidence.

Many phds say that person testimony is irrelevant. And I say, unless you are the person in the dock for capital murder of your neighbor, and there's an unknown eyewitness out there who saw the murder and can truthfully testify the accused was not the murderer. Then, personal testimony becomes really important, at least to the accused.

Greenleaf also gives his view of why God puts his existence outside of the ability to be proven or disproven by demonstrative or scientific evidence. What did he say? To paraphrase, it is because that would destroy faith and taking it out of man's responsibility to choose...and I say, to choose him and Jesus.

There is no scientific evidence proving God,none that I've ever seen, aside from the design of everything in the universe. But here's a story proving Jesus is who he said he was. Its about a woman. In 1982 I think it was, she and her husband were in a hospital in Houston and were given her diagnosis of metastatic cancer of the liver; secondary liver cancer. Her husband was a pastor of a church. The diagnosis was made by three pathologists at MD Anderson and a graduate of the Harvard Medical School. These facts are according to her written account.

She and her husband left the hospital. She never sought any treatment or surgery. Secondary liver cancer is a 5-year death sentence, even now, 35 years later. My mother died of it in 1988.

Well, if you'd like to see that woman, now 35 years later, take a trip to Lakewood Church in Houston, TX for a Sunday service. Her name is Doty Osteen. She's Joel Osteen's mother. She was still alive not that long ago.

That's about as close to scientific evidence for the proof of God and Jesus as I know about, and there are thousands upon thousands of folks like her alive today in the USA.

Greenleaf simply teaches, and as most mature Christians understand, that you are not going to prove or disprove the existence of God or Jesus using scientific evidence. So, if that's what you are looking for, you probably will never find it.

a reply to: Clique777


Do you think, however, that a compelling argument can be made on the basis of reason, logic, and the unique individual spiritual and psychological point of view, like a knowing that once known can't be unknown, which is what I would suggest is the basis of the only true knowledge that's really possible, which can't be merely facts about or a mere description of.

Jesus can be tasted.

That's my contention.

Jesus is like our spiritual food freely given for our personal enjoyment and satiation.

The risen Christ in the spirit is of the mind and the heart, but also the mouth wherefrom the word is uttered.

His way of being involves a clean break with the nonsensicle wordly world of attachment and fear of loss and a leap into a new condition that places us hand in hand WITH God, so it's also a hand of friendship, particularly when we extend it with his love at heart towards others in so far as we do or did it unto the least of His having done it also unto Him.

To know him is to be unconditionally loved and placed on the new, free, pasture, where Jesus is Himself that which is relevant and meaningful and the first/last cause of that unconditioned ground of being, bound only by His love and righteousness.

His is the space of a great clearing which holds that space for us, to somehow join Him in a participatory koinonia.

This is the marvel of the magnificence and beauty of God's love made known and of the true friendship of Jesus.

It's a matter of character, and even His charm and the compelling nature of His love, the same love that God had/has for Him.

He included us in it. Would have it no other way.

It's the greatest invitation ever extended a human being in all of history, and that invitation remains..

I think it's compelling.

It's the best possible of predicaments that Jesus has placed us in with a necessary heavy handed love, and it's offensive only in the sense that the very best defence is a really good offense!

In this space He's generated and upholds, there is rest for the weary soul and sustenance enough to sustain us on our journey.

We must eat and drink of him and by that I'm referring to the spiritual and psychological dimension of what the mass signifies and represents which needn't involve the transubstantiation of the Eucharist.

Do you "grok" of Jesus? Do you understand what it is he's offering in his invitation?

Too good to be true is hard to take, I realize, but when it's reason and logic and love is examined carefully via a sympathetic inquiry that isn't tainted by any prior conception about "faith" or the contemptuous bias of non-faith; when we are open to what he is offering, by simply being willing and open minded and open hearted, there, he meets us where both his and our own circle of joy is made complete. This only validates the prior knowledge in the knowledge of spiritual experience.

He went all around the circle by about 99.99 the way, with integrity, leaving only the very smallest movement on our part, even as faith the size of a tiny mustard seed, or that tear both of regret and gratitude that someone among us upheld the highest standard without compromise, as a friend for our own sake, as well as His.

If God is our friend in Jesus, then who or what can stand against us? In Him and through Him, what we say and agree upon, matters.

Isn't there anything about Jesus that we can all absolutely agree upon without mocking him?

Sure there is, I don't care if you're a literalist fundamentalist or an atheist.

Worthy is the lamb of God!

Go with us all Lord as we pass into a new year, comfort us, and guide us along paths of righteousness, even for our own sake, and that of everyone's. You remain in our midst. You are alive, praise God of the Highest!

When we come to know you we also find our best and truest self.

You empower us Lord, in a compelling manner, to Love God above all and our neighbor as our own self.

You restore us to life and sanity. You are a light in a dark and ignorant world.

Come to us Lord and live with us, you and the Heavenly Father both.

And may all who seek you, find you, only to discover that you'd already found them first.

Let us learn how to accept what you've done and offered us, no matter how difficult and even painful that might be to welcome you, who alone can be trusted, and who's invitation is that of the perfect gentleman and a man among men.

This type of courage and bravery is quite the thing to behold and to give consideration to, to lend it our ear and our minds and hearts, to taste it, eat it, and evaluate it most fully and if it makes sense, integrate it and house it in our innermost being, like the man in search of treasure who, upon finding it, immediately reburied it, marked the spot and then went out and sold everything he owned to buy up the whole field (making certain that it would be wholly owned, and never lost once found).

It is the light that lights the world, through our own comprehension and understanding, that there really is a love that conquers all and that hands the last laugh over to the little man, even at the expense of an evil and wicked system.

It's the yeast in the dough. Doh!

Oh to be with Him, and with you, dear reader.

What a marvel. What a wonder.


Our father, who art in heaven..