Jesus view on homosexuality and civil law

a reply to: Raggedyman

Well said -- and thank you for saying it

I don't really have anything to add. Jesus gave us one commandment -- to love one another as He loved -- and that says it all, and you already said it.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Raggedyman


This isnt true. I cant understand where these ideas come from. Even an objective neutral observer can see that Jesus taught a lot of judgment and made comments that did not support a moral relativism.

No thats the OT law. the NT is what christians are to go by. This is why Christians get in so much trouble because they think the OT covenant applies to them when it does not.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Raggedyman


This isnt true. I cant understand where these ideas come from. Even an objective neutral observer can see that Jesus taught a lot of judgment and made comments that did not support a moral relativism.

Correct for he also said I did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it.

When Mary Magdelene was about to be stoned for adultrey Jesus did not stop them but simply said he who is without sin cast the first stone.....

Watch the love our King does when he returns....to his Father's enemies.

Yes but then told her "go and SIN no more". Don't understand why folks always leave this out. He also reproved the woman at the well that had 5 husbands but he didn't separate Himself from her.

He fulfilled the law when He played the scape goat and sin offering blood of lamb.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Raggedyman


This isnt true. I cant understand where these ideas come from. Even an objective neutral observer can see that Jesus taught a lot of judgment and made comments that did not support a moral relativism.

No thats the OT law. the NT is what christians are to go by. This is why Christians get in so much trouble because they think the OT covenant applies to them when it does not.

What OT law? Who said anything about the law in that post? Looks to me that you really cant tell what is law.

a reply to: Woodcarver

No idea what you mean exactly.

But my post stands. Not to mention the whole don't judge crowd are a bunch of hypocrites. If a pedophile offered to watch their child would they say yes? Nope. Because they judged them ... and rightfully so.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Raggedyman

I think the problem between christians and skeptics of christianity is that christians try to disconnect jesus from the old testament books. Either jesus is god or he is just some guy who got some credit for being nice and spreading budhist ideologies to barbaric jews.

If he is god, then he is the same guy who tells people to kill gays and unruly children. If he was just some guy, then he still supported the killing of people because he clearly states that he is not here to change the old laws. Which were mostly to kill people.

Here si where confusion sets in. the OT was for the HEBREWS/jews. Read the opening pages it tells you who it is addressed to. I have to ask..Cant God change his mind? Of course he can. ALot of those verses though you refeer to are not LITERAL.
Point is th ebible is TWO seperate BOOKS IN ONE EAY TO CARRY FORM.

the OT is a HISTORY for anyone else who is a Gentile(non hebrew/jew) Thats it.

CHristians are to follow the new testament covenant alone. See the laws were not changed. they are addressed to seperate peoples.

a reply to: Logarock

Well, please show me where in the bible you get that from...

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

That isn't a spiritual or moral judgment. It's just being careful.

a reply to: Dwoodward85

Well please show me where Christ taught judgement?

a reply to: TinySickTears

Ditto

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Logarock

Please give examples. Even Jesus himself said not to judge others or you will be judged.

Well Jesus told the woman taken in adultery to sin no more. Told another that if they went back to their old ways their end would be worse than it was. There was never any open ended grace without "laying the ax to the root".

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Jesus only taught Christians one message
Love
Not judgement
Not civil unrest, not anti homosexuality
Jesus and the apostles never fought against civil law, never fought slavery, never fought against Rome.
Christians are not moralisers, not the oppressors, not judges.
Christ taught Christians to love, even those we disagree with us.

If someone chooses to live a life contrary to christianity then that's their choice, free will, a gift from God

On marriage, it's not a christians buisness to decide for another individual what is right or wrong
Jesus taught us to love others, irrespective

For God so loved the world

Some questions,

Do you believe that the bible is the divinely inspired words of god?

Do you believe that jesus is god? Or that he speaks for god in a divinely inspired way?

On the bible, yeah it's pretty close

Jesus is God but we are not Jews, we have a New Covenant

Love God, love each other, no law

There are two types of Christians, the ones who follow what Jesus said and ones that follow what man has said (religion).

Jesus did not address homosexuality which would have been apparent all around him in the Roman army (and apparently really REALLY bothered the Pharisees and their emphasis on purity ... cf. Paul's letters).

In fact, the only commentary he possibly made on it was when he healed the pais of the Centurion.

If you realize that neither Jesus (nor his Father) was a Christian, things become much more clear.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Raggedyman


On marriage, it's not a christians buisness to decide for another individual what is right or wrong
Jesus taught us to love others, irrespective

For God so loved the world

Strange you would say that because He did say about divorce, the idea and the legal judgment had no place at the beginning and was clear that man and woman were involved in the edict of marriage. If you are suggesting that christians cannot comment on ideas out side of these definitions you are simply not looking at what He said.

God hates divorce, it is written, because divorce is so horrific for those who go through it
Jesus never commented on civil law, please prove me wrong
Not because I disagree, because I need to know

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Not to mention the whole don't judge crowd are a bunch of hypocrites. If a pedophile offered to watch their child would they say yes? Nope. Because they judged them ... and rightfully so.

Hmmm... so if I don't let my child grab a hot pan with bare hands, am I hypocrite for utilizing that heat for practical purposes while protecting my child from the known risks? Am I "judging" that pan? Or the heat? Or the source of that heat? Nope. I am simply using my common sense and taking reasonable precautions for known risks.

Nor am I hypocrite for taking reasonable precautions to protect a child from a known risk. I'm not condemning the person to hell. I'm not taking it upon myself to hurt him in any way. I'm not pretending to know how or why he does what he does. I am simply recognizing a known risk and taking reasonable precautions.

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Raggedyman


This isnt true. I cant understand where these ideas come from. Even an objective neutral observer can see that Jesus taught a lot of judgment and made comments that did not support a moral relativism.

IIRC I read many passages that seem to have these words in them. "If you do this, thou shall "surely" die" "This" meaning a number of things. Not just homosexuality.

You need to differentiate between Judais and Christianity, just saying

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Raggedyman


This isnt true. I cant understand where these ideas come from. Even an objective neutral observer can see that Jesus taught a lot of judgment and made comments that did not support a moral relativism.

No thats the OT law. the NT is what christians are to go by. This is why Christians get in so much trouble because they think the OT covenant applies to them when it does not.

What OT law? Who said anything about the law in that post? Looks to me that you really cant tell what is law.

OT covenant/law. includes the 10 commandments and alot of other things covered in jewish/hebrew.

The OT covenant is SPECIFIC to the hebrews/jews. the catholic church has twisted it to cover christians which it does not. Its why rome is the whore of babylon. Jesus as said did not abolish the law of the OT and fulfilled it.

NT covenant is for everyone else who is not a chosen people person AKA gentiles. We have only follow at most 3 commands from Jesus and God. Example..Keeping the sabbath. We are not required to do so.

But what about the law? the OT law is SPECIFIC to the Hebrews/jews. The NT law is specific for GENTILES. So th e laws were never abololished they just apply to different peoples.
Is that fair? No but the Hebrews are to be a example for all to strive for but not a requirement.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Raggedyman

Next time you try to explain Jesus' views it might be nice to use His actual words.

Yeah, good point, I was talking to christians
If you don't know the bible, I was not talking to you

originally posted by: Boadicea

Nor am I hypocrite for taking reasonable precautions to protect a child from a known risk. I'm not condemning the person to hell. I'm not taking it upon myself to hurt him in any way. I'm not pretending to know how or why he does what he does. I am simply recognizing a known risk and taking reasonable precautions.

There is a difference between saying what someone is doing is wrong, and saying they are definitely going to hell and can not be saved.

The don't judge me crowd believes the FORMER is 'judging' and can't be done.

And it's reasonable precaution against a risk because you JUDGED the person and decided they are a risk. It's ok, it's normal, it's actually healthy and proper.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Raggedyman

Next time you try to explain Jesus' views it might be nice to use His actual words.

Yeah, good point, I was talking to christians
If you don't know the bible, I was not talking to you

Awesome, I am a Christian, I know the Bible very well, I don't find what you said to be accurate.