Jesus view on homosexuality and civil law

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Do you really think they were practicing that sin until their death ? Repentance is key, with actions backing that up.

To think a person can practice major sin of any type until they day of their death, and still go to heaven is cognitive dissonance. However since death absolves a person of all sin they don't go to "hell" either,

wait...............
death absolves a person of all sin?

Romans 6:7

For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.

So basically yes, the exception would be those executed directly by God as he acted as judge and the direct executioner.
So to tie it to the topic of homosexuals as we are talking about, a homosexual that died in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah would not be absolved of his sin. They are gone and never coming back, but they aren't in hell either, soul death essentially, they no longer exist.

But let's say the Catholic church caught and executed a homosexual in the year 1000 AD, that judgement never came directly by God but was the Church's way of dealing with sin, which was incorrect. They actually have the hope of the resurrection too.
Acts 24:15

and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

All those homosexuals that died from AIDS, they paid the price, there going to be back, and God is going to expect them to change, there going to be given a second chance. If they refuse to change at that point then....let's say God has not changed his perspective since the days of Sodom.

That's why I say let them do as they please, free will, humans can't judge, but God does and will, and it's better and easier if we leave at all up to him anyways, we keep ourselves out of all kinds of problems. A Christians only obligation is to point out what the bible says on the topic and then leave it alone.

a reply to: Agartha

If it was for christians only I wouldnt post it on ats
The teachings are for christians only.
Again, Christ was teaching christians, His teachings were not authored for the secular state
Christ never taught civil law.

If civil law dictates gay marriage is acceptable, christians are not to fight it, we are called to love.

My issue is you are saying christian law is for non christians, that doesnt make any sense at all, Jesus was never a dictator.

a reply to: TzarChasm


Unfortunately you miss the context of the importance of justice
God is just

Nobody is denying the OT, nobody hides it, its not forgotten, it is not roses and lollies, its still part of the bible.

You make out its forgotten, hidden, not relevant, its not

Jesus is just, Jesus will judge. He hasnt changed, only in your comprehension has He changed
There is coming a time when Old Testament justice will be served again, one final time.

You are pretending something that is not pretendable, there are no excuses for the OT, for Gods justice.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
The christian god is such a nice god. He loves and cares sooooooooo much!

Let's have a look at the loving and caring, shall we?

Rape is fine.
Genesis 19:8
Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Beating slaves is ok if they live a day or two after the beating.
Exodus 21:20-21
And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.

Actually, slavery is just fine and so are the beatings.
Leviticus 25:44-45
And as for your male and female slaves whom you may have — from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves. Moreover you may buy the children of the strangers who dwell among you, and their families who are with you, which they beget in your land; and they shall become your property.

1 Peter 2:18
Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh.

The christian god doesn't like anyone who has been injured either.
Deuteronomy 23:1
He who is emasculated by crushing or mutilation shall not enter the assembly of the LORD.

Leviticus 21:18-19
For any man who has a defect shall not approach: a man blind or lame, who has a marred face or any limb too long, a man who has a broken foot or broken hand, or is a hunchback or a dwarf, or a man who has a defect in his eye, or eczema or scab, or is a eunuch.

But I forgot. Your god is such a caring and loving thing.

No one is holding a gun to your head TD, dont believe, thats ok

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: TerryDon79
The christian god is such a nice god. He loves and cares sooooooooo much!

Let's have a look at the loving and caring, shall we?

Rape is fine.
Genesis 19:8
Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Beating slaves is ok if they live a day or two after the beating.
Exodus 21:20-21
And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.

Actually, slavery is just fine and so are the beatings.
Leviticus 25:44-45
And as for your male and female slaves whom you may have — from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves. Moreover you may buy the children of the strangers who dwell among you, and their families who are with you, which they beget in your land; and they shall become your property.

1 Peter 2:18
Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh.

The christian god doesn't like anyone who has been injured either.
Deuteronomy 23:1
He who is emasculated by crushing or mutilation shall not enter the assembly of the LORD.

Leviticus 21:18-19
For any man who has a defect shall not approach: a man blind or lame, who has a marred face or any limb too long, a man who has a broken foot or broken hand, or is a hunchback or a dwarf, or a man who has a defect in his eye, or eczema or scab, or is a eunuch.

But I forgot. Your god is such a caring and loving thing.

No one is holding a gun to your head TD, dont believe, thats ok

So your reply to me proving that your god isn't the loving and caring thing YOU said, is the above?

Typical religious tactic when flaws are pointed out. Evasion.

originally posted by: wheresthebody
It really is a shame that more "christians" aren't all that christ-like.

I'm thankful more Muslims arent more Muhammad -like.

a reply to: Raggedyman
His words is true till this day and remains unchanged. Your vision does not matter. What matters is what He says. His commandment is Clear. There is no changing it at all.

John 14:15-21King James Version (KJV)
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

a reply to: SoulSurfer

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Matthew 22:37-40

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: TerryDon79
The christian god is such a nice god. He loves and cares sooooooooo much!

Let's have a look at the loving and caring, shall we?

Rape is fine.
Genesis 19:8
Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Beating slaves is ok if they live a day or two after the beating.
Exodus 21:20-21
And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.

Actually, slavery is just fine and so are the beatings.
Leviticus 25:44-45
And as for your male and female slaves whom you may have — from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves. Moreover you may buy the children of the strangers who dwell among you, and their families who are with you, which they beget in your land; and they shall become your property.

1 Peter 2:18
Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh.

The christian god doesn't like anyone who has been injured either.
Deuteronomy 23:1
He who is emasculated by crushing or mutilation shall not enter the assembly of the LORD.

Leviticus 21:18-19
For any man who has a defect shall not approach: a man blind or lame, who has a marred face or any limb too long, a man who has a broken foot or broken hand, or is a hunchback or a dwarf, or a man who has a defect in his eye, or eczema or scab, or is a eunuch.

But I forgot. Your god is such a caring and loving thing.

No one is holding a gun to your head TD, dont believe, thats ok

So your reply to me proving that your god isn't the loving and caring thing YOU said, is the above?

Typical religious tactic when flaws are pointed out. Evasion.

I know you TD, I know your capacity to understand
Its not worth it to me.

God can defend himself

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: SoulSurfer

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Matthew 22:37-40

Concise outline of Gods commands to christians in the New Covenant
And this additionally, if you dont mind, as well

Matthew 6:14. For if you forgive men for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 But if you do not forgive men, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.


Luke 6:38. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.

a reply to: Raggedyman

How would your god do that?

Rape me?
Send bears after me?
Stone me?
Drown me in a flood?

Sounds like such a loving and caring god.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Agartha

My issue is you are saying christian law is for non christians, that doesnt make any sense at all, Jesus was never a dictator.

And yet only those who follow God's commandments as stated by Jesus can be saved and go to heaven. Which means that a couple of gay men who are kind and good hearted cannot go to heaven because they did not live according to what Jesus taught (that marriage is only between a woman and a man).

It does not matter if Christians love gay people or not, Jesus and God will not accept them unless they repent of their sins (aka, stop being gay).

Jesus came to save everybody (John 2.2), not just those who call themselves Christians, which makes your civic/religious law argument obsolete.

Which means Jesus was not an 'all accepting/all loving' kind of prophet, he was very clear the doors to heaven were only for those who lived according to his rules (heterosexuals only).

a reply to: Agartha

So tell me Agartha, what are the christian laws in your opinion

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Agartha

So tell me Agartha, what are the christian laws in your opinion

Many. Regarding your OP one rule is heterosexual marriage only. And no divorce (Matthew 19).

Don't forget that every person on this planet is a child of God, meaning there is no such thing as laws for Christians only, Jesus meant them for everybody (John 2.2).

originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Agartha

So tell me Agartha, what are the christian laws in your opinion

Many. Regarding your OP one rule is heterosexual marriage only. And no divorce (Matthew 19).

Don't forget that every person on this planet is a child of God, meaning there is no such thing as laws for Christians only, Jesus meant them for everybody (John 2.2).

Are you a Christian Agartha
It doesn't seem that way to me with that answer

and no, Jesus allows people free will, a choice to follow Him or reject Him, that should be obvious

originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Agartha

So tell me Agartha, what are the christian laws in your opinion

Many. Regarding your OP one rule is heterosexual marriage only. And no divorce (Matthew 19).

Don't forget that every person on this planet is a child of God, meaning there is no such thing as laws for Christians only, Jesus meant them for everybody (John 2.2).

So, Jesus was lying when he said, clearly, that there are only two Commandments? Love God, and love others as you love yourself?

What a silly world you're describing.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Are you a Christian Agartha
It doesn't seem that way to me with that answer

Totally irrelevant, but I have replied to this question a few pages back.

and no, Jesus allows people free will, a choice to follow Him or reject Him, that should be obvious

Free will is such hypocritical concept when it comes to Jesus, as Christian doctrine is very clear that if you do not believe in him you will rot in hell.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
So, Jesus was lying when he said, clearly, that there are only two Commandments? Love God, and love others as you love yourself?

Jesus said they were the greatest two commnandments, he never said they were the only two. Or are you saying those two commandments eliminate the original 10 commandments?

Regardless, it's irrelevant anyway as Jesus then is condemning billions of people to an eternity of hell because they don't believe in him. That's cruel coming from a God who is meant to be the kindest and loveliest.

What a silly world you're describing.

Silly? LOL It's not my fault the book is full of contradictions, and Christians don't agree on its interpretation.

a reply to: Agartha

So you are a non Christian preaching what you believe about Christianity at christians

Do you really think that is common sense, do you really think that's normal
I can not imagine how you can do that and expect an intelligent conversation

originally posted by: Agartha

Jesus said they were the greatest two commnandments, he never said they were the only two. Or are you saying those two commandments eliminate the original 10 commandments?

What's interesting though, is that if you do what Jesus said and treat all others as you would want to be treated, those other commandments are pretty much taken care of. No one wants to be killed or stolen from or be cheated on or disrespected, etc.

What his two commandments does do away with are things that don't hurt anyone (like wearing clothes with more than one fabric, or eating shellfish, or getting a haircut, or being a homosexual). All Jesus did was boil it down to "be excellent" to others and you're fine.

a reply to: Agartha

Perhaps you should make yourself aware of the actual wording of the myth before expounding on it?

Yes, in the context of the tale as recorded in three of the Gospels, Jesus is saying that the Law and the Prophets (Torah) is fulfilled in those two Commandments, and in other locations, he claimed that he coming also FULFILLED the requirements of the Law, thus leading many Christians to claim they are subject to God's grace not the Law.

The "love others as yourself" maxim is very common with versions in most religions/philosophies.... it's kind of straightforward good sense in terms of ethics a variation of "treat others as you yourself wish to be treated.)

(PS, not only am I not a Christian, I'm gay. I see that you're grinding an areligious axe. That's a waste of your time.)