Getaway Driver Arrested After 3 Suspects are Shot to Death

a reply to: DBCowboy

No, crooks read newspapers too. There are probably a thousand less burglars breaking into homes now because of the fear this caused.

a reply to: Snarl

I have to agree. All bets are off when criminals invade or burglarize a home. Homeowners have every right to use lethal force to protect themselves in the privacy of their own homes.

Believe it or not, the more victims turn the tables on criminals, some criminals will think twice before committing a crime.

a reply to: StanFL

No, crooks read newspapers too. There are probably a thousand less burglars breaking into homes now because of the fear this caused.

very doubtful, seeing someone killed by a cop while resisting hasn't stopped people from doing that. so seeing someone killed during a b&e probably won't stop them just make them look harder to see if anyone is home.

criminals aren't the sharpest tool in the shed.

I am not a fan of using a pump action shotgun, If someone has already broken into my home... the time for warnings are past.

The only person I feel for in this story is the young man that had to kill 3 people, I hope he is getting the support he needs to deal with that shock.

originally posted by: JDeLattre89

People ask me, "What type of firearm should I use for home defense?" I always recommend the AR-15 (chambered in 5.56). Never use a handgun when the situation allows for the use of a rifle. If you've got a high quality rifle ... don't reach for your Glock instead. Does a stock 12 Gauge hold a 30 round magazine? Add a red-dot optic to your AR and it won't much matter if the bad guys are running around to make themselves difficult targets. After that, all it takes is practice.

I must disagree for a couple of reasons.

note* I agree that a handgun is wrong except for a backup or quick grab.
But, the high powered rifle will go through walls of most houses (not mine) with a miss and endanger other inhabitants and possibly neighbors.
Thus, a pump-action shotgun is my home-defense weapon of choice. Nothing like a good rack to make a burglar pee his pants. Not to mention that it can be pitch black and you ain't gonna miss with a shotgun and it is far less likely to go through walls. And I am sorry, but you should not be using more than 12 shots EVER for a home invasion. If you need 30, then your home just got broke into by an entire biker gang and you got more problems than your AR can handle in that case anyways.
So, yeah, I recommend 12 gauge.

How can I agree with both of you and contradict both ya'll at the same time?
Here's another perspective:

Personally, I don't consider the 5.56 to be a high powered rifle, but that's not really relevant. Over penetration is always going to be an issue in interior settings. Frangible ammo mightbe the best bet if your assailants aren't armored.

Also, my last shotgun had 10, 15 and 25 round magazines, so capacity issues are a moot point with the right weapon.
BTW, I love the flexibility of the 12 ga platform for varied munitions from non-lethal to explosive! Ammo makes all the difference in penetration with a 12 ga (stay away from steel slug engine-stoppers).

My personal recommendation would be a pistol caliber rifle, preferably an SBR if you can afford it and don't mind the paperwork. Personally, I would prefer .45ACP, but 9mm is much more commonly available in rifle platforms. I'd stay away from the .40S&W due to over penetration. Again, your selection of rounds is important, although .45ACP is pretty slow there's a wide selection of "killer" loads available.

Just my two cents - the best firearm for home defense is the one you have available at the time that you're most comfortable with.

ganjoa

a reply to: Irishhaf

they make 12ga semi auto /auto loaders that work just as well.

930™ Tactical

also if 12ga hurts you to much they make em in 20ga, and a 20ga can kill just as dead as a 12ga.

originally posted by: JDeLattre89

People ask me, "What type of firearm should I use for home defense?" I always recommend the AR-15 (chambered in 5.56). Never use a handgun when the situation allows for the use of a rifle. If you've got a high quality rifle ... don't reach for your Glock instead. Does a stock 12 Gauge hold a 30 round magazine? Add a red-dot optic to your AR and it won't much matter if the bad guys are running around to make themselves difficult targets. After that, all it takes is practice.

I must disagree for a couple of reasons.

Disagreement is fine. At least you're thinking about things.

There are good arguments on both sides, and I understand the variables that work very well for me, may be second best for someone else. There are no substitutes for training, practice and preparedness ... except luck. Most people I run through the shoot house wind up coming to a conclusion similar to mine.

If I can only shoot a bad guy once ... there's no doubt I'd want to hit him with a shotgun blast.

-Cheers

Home invaders lives matter less.

I never understood the public outcry over incidents like the one in the OP. It's perfectly legal and makes common sense to defend his own home against invaders. Someone like me on the other hand is completely f#cked if someone chooses to invades my home. Surrender is my only option or going medieval on their asses. I got mugged twice in my life and there is still no legal way to get a gun for self defense. Meanwhile some thug just purchases a gun on the dark web and kills someone in a home invasion. The safety of german citizens Is not a serious political issue for the morons who run my country. Nobody is willing to even entertain the idea of changing our gun laws. Of course we have a lot of gun owners in germany but the majority of the guns are still illegal. My backgroundcheck is btw spotless. I never had a problem with the police.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
You're right. the person should have let those three kill him and then wait for the law to eventually catch them and try then convict them.

I don't know what I was thinking. I apologize.

Bad survivor! Bad Bad!

I'm well aware that my thoughts on this aren't popular on ATS. But the way I see it, the #1 job of law enforcement is to get people to trial. If you're going to step in for law enforcement and shoot someone, then it's your job to also accept that responsibility. Putting someone down in self defense is fine, but at the same time I also think that doing so obligates you to do as much for them as possible to get them to a trial alive. That means first aid, it means getting an ambulance there, and it means making smart weapon choices.

If you're not capable of doing at least that much, I don't think you're responsible enough to own a gun.

a reply to: Aazadan

The homeowner has no ####ing obligation to the person(s) who are violating the homeowners rights.

When you decide to break into a home, cause violence, then you are giving up every god-damned right you have as a human being.

a reply to: Snarl

Lol so true. You would think stories like these would make criminals think twice.. Eventually the hornets nest will refuse to be poked any longer in the near future. People are getting tired of this crap.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I agree with you.

Those thugs were lucky they got dispatched by 556.. I practice Filipino sword and machete art. I always have my talibong within arms reach at night. Those guys had gotten into my apartment theyd have an unpleasant 20 seconds of staring down in abject horror and shock at their severed limbs before sucumbing to exsanguination. Id rather get waxed with a ar15 than hacked or thrusted to death by a 18 inch long machete.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Aazadan

The homeowner has no ####ing obligation to the person(s) who are violating the homeowners rights.

When you decide to break into a home, cause violence, then you are giving up every god-damned right you have as a human being.

Why not? We've decided as a society that criminals get a trial to determine punishment. Both the home owner, and the burglar are members of society.

I get that things sometimes happen when guns are involved (they are designed to kill afterall), but if they survive the shooting, why shouldn't they get a trial? Maximizing the chances of them getting a trial means the shooter needs to do all that's in their power to ensure the person survives after the threat is neutralized.

If you want to live in society, then you give up the "right" to be judge, jury, and executioner.

a reply to: Aazadan

You would provide rights to those who violate others rights.

A homeowners rights are paramount.

Criminals rights do not trump citizens rights.

An AR15 for home defence?..how many walls will that go through?, sounds like a dumb suggestion.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Aazadan

You would provide rights to those who violate others rights.

A homeowners rights are paramount.

Criminals rights do not trump citizens rights.

Everyone has rights, until society strips them. You as an individual don't have the right to take them away from others just because you disagree with what the person is doing.

If you decide to strip rights from the criminals just because, then what makes you any different from them?

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Snarl

Really this means that there will be four less people (three permanently) who will never rob or harm anyone ever again.

Three people who will never face a trial by jury, because someone thought they could do better than a courtroom.

Also, maybe if the homeowner suggested they all hold hands and sing Kumbaya, they would've changed their minds.

a reply to: Aazadan

you know what they say about law enforcement, When Seconds Count, The Police are Just Minutes Away.
it is not your responsibility to render aid to someone that was trying to harm you and you beat them to the draw.
in fact had it been me i would have been adding insult to injury.

____ around, lose around.
is that painful, looks that way to me.
what kinda of bird don't fly, a dead sh@@bird.

maybe later i'd feel bad about it, but probably not.

originally posted by: vonclod
An AR15 for home defense? ... sounds like a dumb suggestion.

I know.

Better to call the cops and tell them, "Hurry!! Hurry!!"