Can God create...

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: DarkvsLight29

originally posted by: SolAquarius
a reply to: DarkvsLight29
Also is this assuming god has some sort of semi corporeal form that is humanoid in nature as opposed to being an infinite formless cociusness?

Yeah assuming he's made himself a body.

An omnipotent God can both be formed and formless at the same time. That's kind of the point of being omnipotent is you are all things all at once. An omnipotent God is aware of every possible experience in any moment. Plus an omnipotent God has memory of every possible past experience and foresight to every possible future experience for all time as single point of awareness.

Yep.

originally posted by: DarkvsLight29

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: DarkvsLight29

originally posted by: SolAquarius
a reply to: DarkvsLight29
Also is this assuming god has some sort of semi corporeal form that is humanoid in nature as opposed to being an infinite formless cociusness?

Yeah assuming he's made himself a body.

An omnipotent God can both be formed and formless at the same time. That's kind of the point of being omnipotent is you are all things all at once. An omnipotent God is aware of every possible experience in any moment. Plus an omnipotent God has memory of every possible past experience and foresight to every possible future experience for all time as single point of awareness.

Yep.

assuming (blegh) that this is true, then all possibilities are equally realized and there is no actual point to any decision at all. if you are confused then think of "crisis on two earths" from dc comics. in all likelihood within this scenario such a being is locked into a literal standstill as every moment of every reality unfolds in its finality within the same instant, a book published in concrete. in a word, god is the most helpless of us all. an observer caught within a vast existential loop of its own devising, its supreme office doubling as an inescapable prison. you call that power...others would call it hell. the 10th circle, if you will...the one cleverly disguised as paradise and salvation.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Interesting thought. If God (He/She/They/Them/It) creates another God-copy with equality in all facets....wouldnt that add back in an endless circle?

1 + 1= 2 of 1...which theoretically equals the two together as 1...cancelling out?

The chicken came first because here in front of me is a living chicken..whereas this raw egg may or may not..become a hatched chicken. It could get dropped, cracked...whereas the living chicken already exists. Both have to exist, and one equals the other....

Much like the God Paradox....a 1,000 equal "GODS" in every way still equal one very large complete copy of the original...therefore is the original...

I digress...my head hurts now....will be following your thread with interest and aspirin.....

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
"Can God create another God that is equal in every aspect to himself?"

Sure. Because "God" is the nullifier of paradoxes.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
"Can God create another God that is equal in every aspect to himself?"

Sure. Because "God" is the nullifier of paradoxes.

if that is the case, then its no wonder that god is no longer around. as a "nullifier of paradoxes" how could he sustain himself as a paradox? the son that was his own father sacrificing himself to himself to appease his own displeasure resulting from complications he himself had foreseen and allowed, making such elaborate maneuvers "necessary" according to the rules he himself wrote and apparently could have bent/broken at literally any time of his choosing without lasting repercussion. because, you know, nullifier of paradoxes. moving past that, his job as benevolent guardian required a malevolent antithesis. in order to create and preserve, you must likewise engineer decay and destruction. he nullified himself to save everything else. truly noble.

You can create and destroy who neither either?

Here's my experience of the "god" energy... sitting in the void and then you hear this almost like bacteria like wave coming naming everything like a wave of concept, re-painting the entire world over the void one is sitting in. The leader marching along going: I am the god of Abraham over and over blah blah blah as all follow behind naming everything.

ANNOYING.

Abraham where ever the hell you are' keep your god that dude kinda sucks... everyone has given it so much power the ego is ridiculous on that thing.

Of course like any conglomerate you can sort of "cloud bust" them, takes a ton of energy though and it is over and over kinda like a satellite... eventually, after a few weeks they get the hint and piss off, make you your own special little place and leave you alone.

a reply to: TzarChasm

What a funny thing to say
God makes rues but then you say He should break them, why, to appease you?
Justice means the rules must be kept. Justice means that the law should treat everyone equally
You then said no lasting repercussions if the Father broke the law for some, surely that's naive, also it's morally wrong.
Maybe not for some of us, if marality is subjective?
You just want a God that sways to your own will and desire

It's interesting that you say that The Father sacrificed His Son to Himself, it's an indication you have no idea about christianity.
Considering how vocal you are, you fail on the basic foundation

Then let's talk free will, a God that doesn't allow us a choice is not a God, you can choose everything you want in this life except God. Because you can't choose the God you want, you reject Him. That's fine, you reject Him, He won't force Himself. Free will

Can God create, can nature create is my question?

a reply to: Raggedyman

Everything is nature... energy and form.

Inflate an energy by giving it some energy from oneself... it's vampirc in nature... a giving of power but no receiving of it unless very supplicant like a slave.

You can draw all the energy you want in meditation outside of that whole hive mind like a puppy waiting for scraps.

Doesn't matter if those things exist or not; as far as the all of everything goes... as one is in essence no different. Letting such a thing go viral and giving it so much and getting well basically nothing back in the free will and cause and effect business? And you are already the heir of all you sow.

That energy is just walking around reaping.

No thanks.

If God were to create this builder.. he already lifted it. His creating was part of the "lifting". So, yeah he can create something heavy that he can lift.

If he were to create another god like himself, then he'd need to make it a mirror self. Otherwise, both Gods of the same material would collapse all reality.

The energy around each other would be like two magnets together facing the same direction.

a reply to: Realtruth

I Guess you didnt read the OP so you would not understand my answer.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: spy66


Since God is absolute infinite and takes up absolut all Space there is, And Always was and always is. Then the younger twin would be finite no matter what.

God can not lift a stone when God takes up absolute all Space there is. The stone would be a finte and would be smak in the middle of God.

which leads us to conclude that he is in fact not omnipotent because he cant make 0 = 1. a truly omnipotent entity could juggle paradoxes like oranges. ALL powerful means no exceptions. but of course, what would subatomic particles like ourselves understand about juggling paradoxes and operating an entire universe (or multiverse!) simultaneously and singlehandedly? its astounding how everyone has some idea of what being godly or divine is all about except for people who are actually godly/divine. i wonder where those people are hiding...?

If God is absolute everything there is and takes up absolute all Space there is. Then God is omnipotent.

God can create anything he wants. But why would he create a twin, whats the point?

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: Raggedyman

Everything is nature... energy and form.

Inflate an energy by giving it some energy from oneself... it's vampirc in nature... a giving of power but no receiving of it unless very supplicant like a slave.

You can draw all the energy you want in meditation outside of that whole hive mind like a puppy waiting for scraps.

Doesn't matter if those things exist or not; as far as the all of everything goes... as one is in essence no different. Letting such a thing go viral and giving it so much and getting well basically nothing back in the free will and cause and effect business? And you are already the heir of all you sow.

That energy is just walking around reaping.

No thanks.

Unless that assumed vampire is the energy source
I am guessing you think the energy was always here

I am no slave, was, I am free now.
Yes, there are issues now, when He returns then I will no longer live in a world that is enslaved.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Wow, that really is a fascinating perspective on the whole topic. Thanks for your input.

You just made me think of a quote from the movie Troy (2004), which as I have just confirmed goes like this:

Achilles: I'll tell you a secret, something they don't teach you in your temple. The gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now, and we will never be here again.

Even if you hate the movie, at least consider the quote above on its own merit and relate it to what you just said. Because when I first heard that quote in the movie and then thought about it after, it seemed somewhat profound but I couldn't understand why.

Your reply just made me realise the following: if there is an omni-X God that is the divine creator of everything, can you imagine the magnitude of stress this entity has been under and will always continue to be under as long as everything exists? Of course God's existence would be hell and compared God would probably envy that we can exist and even those of us in the worst situation thinkable would not have to experience a 00000.1% level of stress that God has, does and will always have to.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Returns? If god is in your mind as existing then also comes a devil... neither one can ever be you? Where is your personal responsibility in action to the whole in your creation and destruction?

Some want to say oh no god created everything and devil makes me do all I dont want to do in it because hey ima good boy or girl.

Tsk tsk no responsibility in the world? Then why even have a from at all...

Such systems were created to avoid responsibility to ease ones conscious from their burdens they were carrying in mind... like the arms inside oneself becoming the arms outside oneself dropping a load. But saying hey I'm not the one picking it up from outside and carrying it inside to then reflect it back to the outside?

Fools.

Leave it as it is outside and you wont pick it up, you won't reflect it... it just is what it is, the act of trying to make it something other than what it is only occurs in one place... YOU the ego saying that is you... but none of this we carry is ours, it didn't come from us it is a chosen inheritance of like and dislike constant judgment of good and bad... taking the responsibility of this "god/devil" in condoning and condemning but that is an opinion a point of view not reality in total to anyone but oneself.

That does not alter any single thing in reality it is just grasped illusions and concepts forming the world one lives in or experiences as that grasping itself as a consciousness through the senses instead of existing as pure awareness itself.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

What reality are you in
I said we have fre will, then you say I blame the devil.
That's a little strange on your behalf isn't it

We are responsible, hence judgement, personal judgement

a reply to: Raggedyman

I am simply aware.

I am not knowledge as it is not mine it is a tool to create or destroy I rather use creativity to better things as a tool than destroy... however I have no issues pointing at all one holds that promotes a vicious cycle of suffering held that does nothing to create anything but destruction.

Such is nature but it does not have to be one's nature to embody such things; especially when they are not yours just carried as your's so are you the ass; or the one riding it?

Either way a beast of burden is involved... freedom frees both.

God devil? Neither either... do not embody whatever possesses you. See what flashes in "the mind" realize that it is a reflection a mirror the only one that grasps or says anything is the one grasping at the reflection... better to just be a mirror all things move and pass before it but it reflects nothing in it as grasping but all in it as it arises and passes.

Of course one can choose to embody a spirit of something; but after one has taken up such residence? Then it is easy to lose who the host and who the guest is. Next thing one knows? Full of all of these things not oneself taken as a self... a conglomerate of grasping and energy towards and at empty concepts unreal unless made so... dont make them so and they just pass on through in their own reflection of being.

Understanding this as the real embodiment of simply being? One comes to a state of just awareness... there is no mind just the eyes reflecting what is seen, ears sensing sound etc. but ultimately those are just energies and vibrations.

So giving those things sensed energy? Choice, freewill helpless to them? A slave of those energies taken as a self when they are not anything other than a grasping an attachment.

Nothing can ever ever arise the same from one moment to the next ever as it was; chasing that dragon as if it could? Ignorance the very veil itself. Greed for everything seen one finds pleasant and pleasing to that ego self or conglomerate not oneself, and hate for all of that one finds displeasing in all not oneself that brings discomfort and disease.

In such a manner one becomes a spinning vortex; a torrent of chaos seeking order... when the present is always in order. The grasping and attachment creating an extreme seeking to flee another extreme runs right into itself over and over... lay both down and there arises an experience of neither.

Then all just simply is. The I am what I am means undefined; what you experience in all that grasping makes it defined... when it is beyond all definition. Experience what is beyond all definition and it is a glimpse of reality itself as it is. Let go and eventually all simply remains as it is, ungrasped, unmade, not-attached, unborn.

The past grasping arises after that stopping and washes over one when ceasing to run from the bad for the good... this is the point of where the energy or spirit starts washing over to bring it all into balance, letting all what one has created with intent; wash over both good and bad not attaching to either...as such it is the reaping of all one has sown.

That is the experience of the last supper; when one stops eating from the tree of grasping or knowledge then one begins eating from the tree that is just life.

What if God created a pinhead with infinite angels dancing on it?
Would it finally answer the question of how many angles can dance on a pinhead?

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
"Can God create another God that is equal in every aspect to himself?"

This and such questions are entertaining only to those, who do not know God.

The Truth is, that God is creating only like himself (in his image). This cannot be a Body.
The Truth is that God is omnipotent. This is a fact,that cannot be changed by him or anything what thinks differently than him.

In a very primitive description,it is right that "God is creating God". It is wrong that God is creating "ANOTHER", because he can't have anything beside him.
Everything lives in him and is like him. So the next statement is, aswell true : "is equal in every aspect to himself".

While God said, [B]YOU[/B] can try things out (means you have even the freedom of choosing to create unlike him - the biblical reference would be "you can eat from every fruit from the Garden"), it is true that he can create something that is not like him, but only temporarily.

When his child chooses to do this, the time is created (biblical refference: "the snake was more crafty") and this creation is given time to decide what is the best (which is of God and which is not of him) and to return to God ("for i am the Alpha and the Omega").

So while you still think, that it is possible to Create unlike him, you will suffer. Understand that the process in creating unlike him can bring only suffering, because it is opposite of God. link:What is the opposite of suffering

The answer to the "A boulder that is too heavy to lift" you have got now: It is you in a Body, which can not lift the heavy boulder (earth). Unless you stand on your hands (upside down view).

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Why do you believe in God? I'm curious, was it because you had an experience and thus, now you believe? What if your experience was an implementation of secret technological advancement posed upon you by means to which you are completely unaware?

What if you are God having a human experience?

originally posted by: Neith
Why do you believe in God? I'm curious, was it because you had an experience and thus, now you believe? What if your experience was an implementation of secret technological advancement posed upon you by means to which you are completely unaware?

What if you are God having a human experience?

It seems you are unaware of my personal views when it comes to the concept of God. I have over 200 threads on ATS, the vast majority of which have nothing to do with trying to prove or disprove if God exists. I actually cannot think of one off the top of my head that takes either of those narratives, but it's possible I have at some stage so I don't want to purposely lie. But I will stress the point that the vast majority of my time spent on ATS has nothing to do with trying to prove or disprove whether God exists.

I was raised from birth up until I became an adult with the idea that there is one God and he is the God of Abraham. Any time I asked questions that couldn't be explained I was told "because of God" or "because God said". This was not a problem for me at the time because I did not have critical thinking skills and didn't have a reason to question anything. When I got to the age range of about 15-18 I really started getting annoyed with having to do things (or being told I couldn't do things) in the name of religious belief that did not make sense to me.

I would resist having to do them, and this resistance became stronger as I aged because it seemed strange to keep doing something that was not against the law or required by the law and still forced to do so because of religious beliefs when I didn't want to do them and saw no benefit in doing them. By the age of about 19, I made an ultimatum to my parents: either I am permitted to stay here and live here without myself having to do these things, or I will start making arrangements to move out and we can each live how we desire. I emphasised that while I was under their roof I would respect their wishes in regard to religion, but if I moved out I would not be taking those religious beliefs with me.

After some heated debate, both my parents came to the agreement that they would prefer if I did stay at home (we were going through some family issues at the time) and while they would much rather prefer if I did uphold their religious beliefs whether I was in their house or not, they were willing to come to a compromise. I was welcome to stay and would be treated with respect as long as I did not try to start preventing them from expressing their religious beliefs or prevent them from discussing their religious beliefs in front of me. I agreed with the first part but not the second, but since they did come to compromise it was only fair that I did too. Thus, I agreed.

Fast forward to myself today, 31 years of age, and my current views, after being separated from being FORCED to believe or express my beliefs with actions for about 22 years, I would classify myself, if I had to, as an Atheist (somebody who does not believe in the existence of a single God or multiple gods). However, and this will separate me from some who identify as Atheists, I do NOT believe "God does not exist", I just do not believe there is sufficient objective evidence OR my own subjective experiences so far to confirm that God definitively exists.

I am 99.99% sure that if God does exist, he has been misrepresented in many significant ways by every religion to ever exist (except Deism which some might consider a "religion" but I think it's actually rather a way of thinking). Thus at this time, I cannot be a theist of any kind. It is not possible.

Now that I have explained my position, I can answer your questions without confusion on your end.

It seems most of your reply hints at the idea that non-human beings with a higher intelligence or capability than humans have managed to fool us into thinking incorrectly about our own nature. That is possible, I do not deny it is possible, but I do not have any strong evidence to believe it is true, thus I do not.

The last question of your reply is something I have considered and still do not deny, but the strong evidence for it to be taken as true is not there. Thus I do not believe it is truth.

I could of course be wrong about my personal views, but I still believe my current position is reasonable considering what I have explained so far. Hope I have cleared up any confusion for you.