Fall of the Anti-War Movement: Did the Liberals ever actually care about ending wars?

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Logarock

Gawd!

You're even more diabolically cynical than I am, and I love you for it.

Thank you! I really though the blowing up of Libya and the killing of Gaddafi was Obamas high point and shining moment. Loved the idea to smuggle weapons to Syria.

As a veteran of 24 years of military service, I can say both political parties are war mongers. When I entered the military in the late 1960's the Democrats were the party in power. The president at the time bragged that not an outhouse in Vietnam could be bombed without his approval. The the following president authorized US forces to enter Cambodia to destroy major supply storage dumps. The US forces move to within view of this ammo dump and Nixon caved in to public & media pressure. The forces were withdrawn. The war continued for 3 more years resulting in a loss for the South Vietnamese.

The anti-war element in this country routinely attacked returning soldiers. They would throw urine and feces at men and women who were lucky enough to return home. They went on to the colleges to harass veterans who were only seeking an education. Sadly, this continued throughout my working career with my peers.

The anti-war people are not anti-war but pro-socialist. They are pro left regardless of political affiliation. The election of Trump is the opportunity to protest and riot in attempt to drive their socialist agenda.

The college campus in my time just tolerated leftist (anti-war) activities only to be fully supported today. This movement has morphed in to many different names. This gives them more opportunities to demonstrate. Anti-women, anti-illegal immigrant, environmental groups and now anti-Trump movements.

The radical nature of our college campuses is the result of the anti ----(fill in the blank) movements. They are anti-free speech, anti-capitalism, anti-military and anti-Republican. If being anti-war is the cause that gets them the most attention, then that is what they are.

This thread is ridiculous. I can't think of a single Democrat I know that's pro-war. In fact the only one I can think of is Joe Lieberman.

Republicans are mostly pro-war because war makes money and pushes your "values" on other people, which are the two things they care about most after guns and abortion.

a reply to: CB328

Well, they re-elected a proven warmonger who campaigned as an anti-war candidate for a vote and a buck.

“I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am President, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank. “

– Barack Obama Campaign Promise – October 27, 2007

***

There are millions of pro-war Democrats.

originally posted by: CB328
This thread is ridiculous. I can't think of a single Democrat I know that's pro-war. In fact the only one I can think of is Joe Lieberman.

Republicans are mostly pro-war because war makes money and pushes your "values" on other people, which are the two things they care about most after guns and abortion.

You are not looking too hard! Lyndon Johnson (D-TX) escalated the Vietnam War to a half million troops and 58 thousand American KIA. Harry Truman (D-MO) entered into the Korean War with 56 thousand dead American soldiers. FDR (D-NY) cost around 300,000 dead Americans in WW2. Yep, those damn Republican warmongers!

As a Vietnam veteran, I can tell you that Johnson's wife was on the board of directors for Bell Helicopters and a large construction company which operated openly without interference from the communists in Vietnam. I can't remember its' name but they operated baby blue equipment.

a reply to: buddah6

Are you speaking for the war mongers, or against them?

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: buddah6

Are you speaking for the war mongers, or against them?

I am speaking against warmongers but no party has clean hands!

a reply to: buddah6

And both parties have dirty hands, bloody hands.

a reply to: LesterJust

Who would create the new system if the current one collapsed? There are 350 million or so people living in the US right now. There's no way that many people can live among each other without some very solid rules. Which ones do you honestly trust to write or enforce a new system?

Anarchy simply won't work. Land rights/property rights are nothing without law enforcement & the acceptance of a judicial system; otherwise the first person to pull a trigger becomes the new property owner. In fact, I'd imagine that gangs, cartels, militias, organized crime families, and the militaries of other countries would immediately move to seize the assets in this county if our system collapsed.

originally posted by: CB328
This thread is ridiculous. I can't think of a single Democrat I know that's pro-war. In fact the only one I can think of is Joe Lieberman.

That depends on what you mean by "pro-war". Are you talking about political rhetoric or political actions? Because I'd say that any politician who votes for wars, argues for wars against Group A or B, or supports undeclared drone wars is actually "pro-war". And there are plenty of Democrats like that. You could even add politicians who vote in favor of funding a side in a war as being "pro-war", since that particular war would likely end if we weren't arming one side in it.

Republicans are mostly pro-war because war makes money and pushes your "values" on other people, which are the two things they care about most after guns and abortion.

Surely you don't think that only Republicans invest in the defense industry, have fought in the military, or work for defense contractors, do you?

And ironically, the politicians and/or candidates that received the most defense related lobbying money from 2015-2016 were Hillary Clinton ($1,073,587) & Bernie Sanders ($419,534). Here's a list of the top 20 politicians who received lobbying money from the defense industry in that time period.

note: 16 of the 20 recipients are indeed Republicans. But you said you couldn't name a single Democrat, so at least now you can name 4.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: DBCowboy

Man I hope you have checked out the show Black Mirror. Season 2 started out with an episode that really made me a little nervous it could be right around the corner.

Next thing you know if you don't have enough likes on social media you end up jobless and in the gutter.

Very good show...quite intense and makes for uncomfortable viewing at times...which is great.

Didn't know you had to be "liberal" to be anti-war, but whatever.

originally posted by: projectvxn
Suddenly liberals care about war again.

It's only ok if democrats do it. Just remember that and everything will be fine.

We have always been at war with eastasia.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: TheScale

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: projectvxn

Not true. There always have been and always will be anti-war pacifists on the Left wing. The Democratic Party simply ignores and opposes us until they need to use our outrage for political gain. Our views include things like diplomacy instead of war, joining the ICC, nuclear disarmament, drastic reduction of the defense budget, ending our perpetual wars, etc.

However, our views have always been less popular than the stereotypes. As in, many people in the center-left and left are just as pro-security, pro-military, pro-investment in defense related industries as the right wing. The difference is typically in what tactics to use. This is why the leadership in the center-right Democratic Party routinely ignores the pacifists and supports various forms of "military interventions". The Democratic Party is only center-left on social issues.

This is like claiming that all conservatives are pro-war. I know for a fact that wouldn't be true, since I know quite a few conservatives who claim to hate the MIC, hate the constant wars, and think we should mind our own business.

And this is why many of us dont see any option at fixing the problem unless rome burns to the ground. the machine is too well maintained for us to affect its trajectory.

Burning it to the ground won't change anything either. The wealthy would still be wealthy and the powerful would still have connections & the knowledge to rebuild civilization as they see fit. Many of them already have properties, wealth, and connections throughout the rest of the world. So it would be easy for them to relocate, wait out the upheaval, & then return when the dust settles to reclaim things. And as long as most people have a price, we'll keep losing.

You could erase all life on this planet and the "gods" would just restart it the same way...again as always.

Only way to fix this world and beyond is to take care of them...otherwise just be a slave in the games...FOREVER.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

No of course not. Everything is partisan. Everything is black and white. There is only the right person that is on the right team. What that person actually does, has no bearing on anything. As long as everyone gets to virtue signal their entire lives, everyone is happy.

I care about LGBT so I am a Democrat! Obama is great! Who cares if he is a murdering war monger!!

I care about stopping abortions so I am a Republican! George Bush is great! Who cares if he is a murdering war monger!!

VIRTUE! VIRTUE! I AM BETTER THAN YOU!!!!!!!

a reply to: Winstonian

Good stuff man!

Miss seeing you around all the time.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

The Liberal 'anti-war' movement is, was and always will be subject to what's in it for the Liberals.

The Liberal 'Anti' is still alive and well, but the focus has now been shifted to 'anti-Trump' and doing all it can to sabotage the US Government.

It's almost treason, and it most certainly has nothing to do with what's right or wrong, these arses were waiving the pitchforks before Trump even took office, calling for impeachment and in some cases, especially the Liberal media, were heavily suggesting someone ought to assassinate Trump.

They are still campaigning, riled up like the (mostly) easily directed and steered sheep they actually are.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Yeah me too. Had to kind of back off of youtube and all of my other keyboard warring with my kid on the way. I also get sick of seeing the same 10 "progressives" invading intelligent conversations with their regressive partisan brainwashing.

I am planning for my big comeback shortly!