Conclusion is the Simple Answer - Finding the Absolute God of Creation

Manu - "To Think"

The higher I climb on this tree called thought, the more I see that truth is simple. While I strive to fulfill this obligation as a member of the body of mankind, I find the simple truth as a conclusion: God is not named or represented in any way other than from the nature (DHARMA) of Creation itself. Dharma is the nature of things named. Negating each relative then shows the Absolute shining brightly from the crumbled temples of old. What is the value of relative duality? Assembling the parts back to see the whole is the point of digging deep into this abyss of divided words. At each stage, simply see that none of the parts are the one Absolute God if they can be named separately from God's nature, which is what the true God is. Was the fruit of creation restricted in Genesis 1 in any way? No. Where does this leave the Relative Prime (Jesus)?

TAO 1

The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named is not the eternal name
The nameless is the origin of Heaven and Earth
The named is the mother of myriad things

Thus, constantly free of desire
One observes its wonders
Constantly filled with desire
One observes its manifestations

These two emerge together but differ in name
The unity is said to be the mystery
Mystery of mysteries, the door to all wonders

The question of where this leaves Jesus is simple. If Jesus is a relative to God, then he is a named thing, relative to God. Although I do not need the TAO TE CHING to verify this, I do need other witnesses. For this, I will first refer to the Bible itself.

John 8:28

So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.

Lacking his Father's truth in total, Jesus had to be taught. This is a relative state of mind for Manu Prime. If you read the entire chapter of John 8, you will notice that Jesus calls out the Father of Israel (cited in Exodus 4 as Yahweh) as the Devil. Above, you see that Jesus was taught by his Father, which he leaves unnamed. I am aware that many of the Jewish writers of the New Testament reference Yahweh (LORD) as the Jewish Lord, but this fact is a dead idea if the premise of this thread is true. It is also worth noting that Jesus is identified as the very Lord (Son of God) we call Lord from the Old Testament, which then shows you the essence of my point. Like all of us, there is an old nature to overcome, which is the nature of fear and death (destruction of life).

God is not named in John 8 for one reason:. God has no opposite in creation other than the entire creation as His image, which is the Son of God in total. Taking this very simple fact as a presupposition, we see that Jesus had to be taught by his own Father, which he clearly differentiates from the Jewish Father of Israel in John 8 (read it and you will notice this). I leave you with one video below to show the level to which the relatives fight for rule over a kingdom of crumbling temples. Crowns have thorns for a reason. The thorn next to the seed in the Hebrew Alphabet is Nun (seed) and Sin (thistle). Both are side by side, giving you the reason for the crown of thorns at the cross. This is symbolism for circumcision of the Son's sin as Lord of the Old testament (see Genesis 9:6 for a description of the sin in question). The Son of God is who you know him to be, which is Adam. He is the Relative Prime, or first named Man, firstborn over all creation.

As we know from the Bible, he is the name above ever name. What you may not have considered is how Pride gives that name the high seat, while God serves among the least of these who suffer the very sin of Adam from the foundation. Negate all relatives as God and you find one simple answer. By this, you find the invisible God of Creation and only true ruler to be found.

Colossians 1

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Speculative Conclusion

As for me, this is my confession today before men: We have yet to meet God if we name him as one single part of his creation. As an introduction to God, we meet ourselves first, knowing we have an opposite image to find. This end truth will not be found in enlightenment, in realization, in named things or in kingdom building. It will not be found in meditation, in temples built by men or in any of the supposed presuppositions of religions of the world. Where will you meet God?

Perhaps the easiest realization of all. Who is the Son if you read the verse above very closely? Look carefully. Consider what I have said and you suddenly see God in the mirror. Who is God? Where are you now? What is your location? Where is Jesus now?

John 14:20

On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

Babylon crumbles with this knowledge. The temple is no single relative claiming to be ruler and king. The only King is the one who rules himself with the same Love that rules God. Who is God in Creaiton - ONE THING ABSOLUTE!

BABYLON BY SYMBOLISM - ROME AS KING DAVID

Not the End of the Thread!

Love is lost in Fear. Fear is cast out with Perfect Love. Is fear attached to your conclusions about truth? I would submit to you that if you find your fear attached to any named thing in creation, you will find freedom from that fear in simply knowing that God is the Perfect Love that cuts the entangling vine binding you to any named thing, any named institution and any named ruler you can identify.

Simplest Truth of All

We meet God when we become what he is.

1 Corinthians 15

24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Start from the end - God is Love. ALL in ALL is Love in all of us with unity of all relatives by the end. This is Absolute, or God identified in all things by their created nature at the end. No identification of God is possible without first ending the enemy of fear. Until the creation of each person is finished, this realization is incomplete at best, leaving us with a clear indication that we do not yet know God by his essence. What causes death? Separation from what God is, which is Love.

How can a person know God?

In nature, the strong force is Neutral (Neutron) and Positive (Proton). No judgment and no fear. Be Absolute LOVE!

originally posted by: DayAfterTomorrow
How can a person know God?

God is just a word. What the word means is defined by the sentences having it. As far as I can tell, there is no evidence for the existence of God. God, it's meaning, only exists in our imaginations. If we did not talk about God, God would cease to exist.

I think what's even more interesting is the idea all words are delusions. Words are not the reality they represent. We talk about reality, but we have no idea what reality actually is in reality.

I read a really interesting idea about particles in physics. The idea is that no particles actually exist. When we measure the existence of particles what we are measuring is just two energies moving at different speeds.

Nature always turns out to be so much stranger than anything we could have ever imagined.

a reply to: DayAfterTomorrow

I realize right away that many may read this and ask, "What do you mean by this?" My answer is first to read the thread and links. Second, the premise is very simple: Negate all things that are relative to the whole. When you do, you find that the absolute is the essence of creation by nature, which is Love. Once you realize this, work back across the territory of churches, Lords, rulers, kings, traditions, teachers, masters and so on. Work back across to see if any of them are absolute. Negate each of them as God. Cross them off the list. Cross them off the list of truth. Cut the entangled vine of fear and you find God as Love. You are what God is when creation's work is complete. All in All. Absolutely what God is.

If your answer generates a division of fear and judgment, then the conclusion you draw is relative. There can only be one way to see God. Love as Absolute. Becoming this absolute then sets a person free completely from the divisions and fear. This is the work of the one who thinks. God's work is the same.

Is this a denial of Christ? No more than I can confirm him apart form his second coming. None of us have the eyes to see this before his confirmation and appearing occur. 1 Corinthians 13 tells you the essence of the dimly lit mirror and how completeness arrives. If true, then a collective knowledge at that time removes all doubt. Today, there is no need to confirm or deny, but simply remain neutral, which is where I choose to be. I will wait for the end of the book to be sure. This is the honest answer. I place my faith and hope in God, which is Love. Truth is a matter of God's insight, not my speculative relative sight. Faith in the Absolute and hidden God is a matter of honesty. Why proclaim my faith in a relative if that relative is not the Absolute? Again, we know only when we do collectively, since the Son is all of us combined. I cannot judge this apart from the entire assembly being informed and united. To do otherwise is to be dishonest to my task, which is to think, not judge. The Gift of heaven is already free. Faith is faithfulness, not blind acceptance of what we read from named sources. Gnosis is direct knowledge. Pistis (faith) is founded on a dependent relationship. Nothing can separate any of us from God's Love, which you will read in Romans 8. Nothing means no thing, not even me.

Faith, Hope and Love. Each of these are merely pointing back to God, which is Love. See 1 John 4.

a reply to: dfnj2015

As a practical thought, you are correct in this. Negating God as a named thing is the very premise of the thread. Other than the highest Arete and Good we can name by the word Love, there is no other name we can find as high. God is beyond this to be sure. It is, however, the best place to start if God can be found beyond words, relatives and names. Would you agree?

"It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see." My favorite quote of all time by Henry David Thoreau.

What do we "see"? Light in the form of an image. When you "look" at the forms created within the image you miss the light (God). What you see is what matters, which is the reflection of God who is light.

The divine spark is within everything either directly or indirectly in my opinion.

a reply to: DayAfterTomorrow

The problem with anything that comes from the Bible is that no testable claim in the Bible has ever been proven by science.




So would the passages you highlighted be the only thing it got right??

Or was it never actually an accurate account of the universe's beginnings??

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Yes. As most people never realize, light is completely invisible until it reflects, which is the essence of Manu (To Think). Insight is sight within. Enlightenment is light entering the dark void of our mind. Information is formed within. It's truly the only direction we are going to be able to use to see the light.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: DayAfterTomorrow

The problem with anything that comes from the Bible is that no testable claim in the Bible has ever been proven by science.

So would the passages you highlighted be the only thing it got right??

Or was it never actually an accurate account of the universe's beginnings??

I would disagree with your premise. I can show you how John 1 is the Word, while Aleph Bet is the word Father in Hebrew. This is clearly a reference to DNA for more than the reasons I just stated. It goes into the depth of the Hebrew on all levels of the tree of knowledge (word). TAO is the naming (predication) of our predicatory mind. Naming things is the essence of the Speaker (TAO) of the Tao Te Ching. Not only does the Bible confirm all physics, it is superior as a narrative to theory, far more than science has ever provided. This is the problem with the predicatory mind. It is preaching with no real knowledge.

As you note, this is not evidence for God, but really good evidence for design by a higher intelligence. God goes beyond the idea of a mere smart relative, even if that relative is immortal. God is not relative to his creation, but creation relative to him. It's important to know that absolute cannot have a relative. I find my faith and hope grounded in this highest truth of Love, or the very foundation for creation.

As I stated in the second post to this thread, I cannot confirm nor deny. Until I know (by I, I mean us all), then I as a relative can only wait for all of us to wake up and see together. Faithfulness is a dependent relationship, which implies we are all dependent on one thing--Love. I would have it no other way. No other abstract concept compares.

originally posted by: DayAfterTomorrow

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: DayAfterTomorrow

The problem with anything that comes from the Bible is that no testable claim in the Bible has ever been proven by science.

So would the passages you highlighted be the only thing it got right??

Or was it never actually an accurate account of the universe's beginnings??

I would disagree with your premise. I can show you how John 1 is the Word, while Aleph Bet is the word Father in Hebrew. This is clearly a reference to DNA for more than the reasons I just stated. It goes into the depth of the Hebrew on all levels of the tree of knowledge (word). TAO is the naming (predication) of our predicatory mind. Naming things is the essence of the Speaker (TAO) of the Tao Te Ching. Not only does the Bible confirm all physics, it is superior as a narrative to theory, far more than science has ever provided. This is the problem with the predicatory mind. It is preaching with no real knowledge.

As you note, this is not evidence for God, but really good evidence for design by a higher intelligence. God goes beyond the idea of a mere smart relative, even if that relative is immortal. God is not relative to his creation, but creation relative to him. It's important to know that absolute cannot have a relative. I find my faith and hope grounded in this highest truth of Love, or the very foundation for creation.

As I stated in the second post to this thread, I cannot confirm nor deny. Until I know (by I, I mean us all), then I as a relative can only wait for all of us to wake up and see together. Faithfulness is a dependent relationship, which implies we are all dependent on one thing--Love. I would have it no other way. No other abstract concept compares.

Would you like to explaine how the universe was created in 7 days...or how the whole world flooded when there is not enough water on earth to do that....or how 2 or every animal could fit on a boat the size of the ark......or where the genetic bottle kneck in our DNA from all of humanity coming from Noah's family incesting us into existence.... or sodom and gahmora not being desroyed by silver, nor even being called sodom and gahmora, exc, exc , exc...


All of those type things are still testable to this day.

If you take the Bible as if it were esop's fables, where it is a story meant to teach a moral (which is the way the Jews have always viewed it) then it could all work hypothetically.. but a literal view isn't even on the table..

Your taking a modern view of the world and finding a way to make the scripture fit within.. not using the scripture to make scientific theories make sense..

a reply to: DayAfterTomorrow

You should cut the vine of love also to see what is behind that...cut ALL the vines , but i know you won't.

Someone is about to go first though...this much i do know.

Consider all the teachers and gods that have spoken are indeed the problem...trying to recreate that which insists on remaining separate...

Truth is not found in duality...never will be..this is obvious...so why strive to stay in chains while claiming they are needed?

Bigger questions exist ...but are unasked because the LOVE they perceive as the whole...insists..
And refuses to discontinue its boring and meaningless ways.

They forgot the questioners that hid in the shadows while they barreled forth believing all was Love

Now they will be FORCED to answer...Avatars such as Christ are unprepared for us..and so it should be.

originally posted by: DayAfterTomorrow
The higher I climb on this tree called thought, the more I see that truth is simple.

Of course!
Thought is ego, in which all appears as duality.
Even what you imagine is 'truth' has to partake of the duality of the ego.
Now there is a 'simple truth', vs a 'complex' 'truth'?
Is one more truthier than the other?
Thoughts rarely lead anyone, anymore, from the inherent duality of their structure.
Hence the biblical warning to never believe anything that you think or feel (feelings are thoughts/ego)!
The 'truth' that you find in thought, 'simple' or otherwise, remains thought/ego, conditional.
Truth is ALL inclusive!
As in "I Am that I Am!", "Truth Is that Truth Is!"
Tain't nothin' but! *__-

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Your taking a modern view of the world and finding a way to make the scripture fit within.. not using the scripture to make scientific theories make sense..

There would be no need to use relative facts to demonstrate an accurate image of God. This is the premise of the thread, as well as the only position we can take on the subject--neutral / positive. The fundamental physics of the strong force in nature is our starting point for any realization about physics. Christ stated a neutral (do not judge) and positive (only love) attitude. Electrons are the weak force in nature necessary for breaking symmetry, or what you might consider individuation of parts into relative. From a purely physics point of view, the only way to create humanity from primordial chaos is in the presence of light. Light is not unintelligent, nor unintelligible.

a reply to: ParasuvO

Consider all the teachers and gods that have spoken are indeed the problem...trying to recreate that which insists on remaining separate...

Truth is not found in duality...never will be..this is obvious...so why strive to stay in chains while claiming they are needed?

I get what you say here, which mirrors my thoughts in the OP, yet you cannot know this apart from being individuated by the parts, which allows you to stand distinct from the original template. It's the point! Individuation is the reason symmetry and invariance are broken.

a reply to: namelesss

Truth is ALL inclusive!
As in "I Am that I Am!", "Truth Is that Truth Is!"
Tain't nothin' but! *__-

Invariance and symmetry in nature are the center hub of the wheel (TAO 11), which is a template that can be revealed as present in all things. Of course this is true and unchanging, but the ability to individuate from this state of invariance is the only way to ensure the original image is both translated (translational symmetry) and unharmed in the process. There can never be a you distinct from me unless the weak force breaks this symmetry in a state of decay. I will always go back to physics on this topic to show the intent of both the weak force and necessity of entropy differentiating the relative flow of life in cycles of transition. The genius of creation is only seen when this is realized. Abraham did not sacrifice Issac. Issac is the point!

What was the primary concern of Christ? Ending entropy (death), but not until the fullness of creation manifests the individuals to God's absolute original.

a reply to: DayAfterTomorrow

I'd like to see a thread of yours dealing with Greek mythology and the interconnectedness of its stories and myths because they fascinate me to no end.

originally posted by: DayAfterTomorrow
a reply to: dfnj2015

As a practical thought, you are correct in this. Negating God as a named thing is the very premise of the thread. Other than the highest Arete and Good we can name by the word Love, there is no other name we can find as high. God is beyond this to be sure. It is, however, the best place to start if God can be found beyond words, relatives and names. Would you agree?

That which cannot be named cannot be found. What the word God is referring to cannot be spoken about. So, I would say no to your question because to think otherwise would be some form of delusion about God.

I think when we die we look into the face of God. We become so enamored by God's infinite beauty time ceases to exist. We melt into God's mind experiencing eternal heavenly bliss. Experiencing the face of God in all it's infinite beauty is the greatest possible experience by definition. Why would you ever want to continue to experience time at that point?

originally posted by: DayAfterTomorrow
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Your taking a modern view of the world and finding a way to make the scripture fit within.. not using the scripture to make scientific theories make sense..

There would be no need to use relative facts to demonstrate an accurate image of God. This is the premise of the thread, as well as the only position we can take on the subject--neutral / positive. The fundamental physics of the strong force in nature is our starting point for any realization about physics. Christ stated a neutral (do not judge) and positive (only love) attitude. Electrons are the weak force in nature necessary for breaking symmetry, or what you might consider individuation of parts into relative. From a purely physics point of view, the only way to create humanity from primordial chaos is in the presence of light. Light is not unintelligent, nor unintelligible.

No scientist would agree with any of that....

First off we would need to actually establish that any of it was real or accurate in the first place..

It is "this is what happened because santa said it was."

When no one has established that santa is real in the first place..


Love and good and evil are man made concepts not tangible measurable things...

What one culture considers good the other can consider bad. Those things aren't even universal from one house hold to the next, let alone across the universe.

originally posted by: DayAfterTomorrow
What was the primary concern of Christ? Ending entropy (death),

I do not see that at all.
'Christ' is unconditional Love, which was the teaching of the Jesus.
The state of unconditional Love/Enlightenment/Nirvana transcends the 'conditional ego/thoughts' in which 'death' and 'life' conditionally are found.
That 'death' is transcended is incidental. There are many conditional things that are transcended in such an unconditional state; 'time/space', 'life/death', all 'duality'.

but not until the fullness of creation manifests the individuals to God's absolute original.

'Creation' is scientifically and philosophically impossible.
Two, the moment that one becomes unconditional Love ('accepts Christ', experientially) is the moment that We enter into our Universal Self/God/Heaven, Nirvana!
There is no 'not until' anything!
The only that stands in the way is us;

“Your task is not to seek for Love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi

tat tvam asi (en.wikipedia.org...)

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: DayAfterTomorrow
What was the primary concern of Christ? Ending entropy (death),

I do not see that at all.
'Christ' is unconditional Love, which was the teaching of the Jesus.
The state of unconditional Love/Enlightenment/Nirvana transcends the 'conditional ego/thoughts' in which 'death' and 'life' conditionally are found.
That 'death' is transcended is incidental. There are many conditional things that are transcended in such an unconditional state; 'time/space', 'life/death', all 'duality'.

but not until the fullness of creation manifests the individuals to God's absolute original.

'Creation' is scientifically and philosophically impossible.
Two, the moment that one becomes unconditional Love ('accepts Christ', experientially) is the moment that We enter into our Universal Self/God/Heaven, Nirvana!
There is no 'not until' anything!
The only that stands in the way is us;

“Your task is not to seek for Love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi

tat tvam asi (en.wikipedia.org...)

1 Corinthians 15

24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

originally posted by: DayAfterTomorrow

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: DayAfterTomorrow
What was the primary concern of Christ? Ending entropy (death),

I do not see that at all.
'Christ' is unconditional Love, which was the teaching of the Jesus.
The state of unconditional Love/Enlightenment/Nirvana transcends the 'conditional ego/thoughts' in which 'death' and 'life' conditionally are found.
That 'death' is transcended is incidental. There are many conditional things that are transcended in such an unconditional state; 'time/space', 'life/death', all 'duality'.

but not until the fullness of creation manifests the individuals to God's absolute original.

'Creation' is scientifically and philosophically impossible.
Two, the moment that one becomes unconditional Love ('accepts Christ', experientially) is the moment that We enter into our Universal Self/God/Heaven, Nirvana!
There is no 'not until' anything!
The only that stands in the way is us;

“Your task is not to seek for Love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi

tat tvam asi (en.wikipedia.org...)

1 Corinthians 15

24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

I cannot hold conversation with an error filled book (IF you take it literally).
Would you like me to 'correct' the quote for you; to clarify it from nebulous poetic metaphor into meaningful real experience?
I was 'hoping' to converse with a human, with experience and rational thought.
Sending me poesy from a book of metaphor argues nor proves anything.
I will stand behind my experience/Knowledge over your intellectual imaginings imbibed from some book, should you want to enter into a rational discussion, I'll be around.