Will Humanity Recognize Alien Life When See It?

This is an interesting article which got me to thinking some deep questions.
www.sciencenewsforstudents.org...

In a 1967 episode of Star Trek, Captain Kirk and his crew investigated the mysterious murders of miners on the planet Janus VI. The killer, it turned out, was a rock monster called the Horta. But the Enterprise’s sensors hadn’t registered any sign of life in the creature. The Horta was a silicon-based life-form. That made it different from any on Earth where everything is carbon-based.

Still, it didn’t take long to determine that the Horta was alive. The first clue was that it skittered about. Spock closed the case with a mind meld. He learned that the creature was the last of its kind, protecting a throng of eggs.

But recognizing life on different worlds isn’t likely to be this simple. It could prove especially hard if the recipe for life elsewhere does not include familiar ingredients. There may even be things alive on Earth that have been overlooked because they don’t fit standard definitions, some scientists suspect. The scientists that look for life outside Earth are called astrobiologists. They need some ground rules — with some built-in wiggle room — to know when they can confidently declare, “It’s alive!”

I've always been skeptical of science's tendency to label a planet or moon as "possible" for alien life. There are obviously rules of physics which apply to anything in the universe, but the rules of life? Possibly not. The idea that life must be carbon based, requires water, has finite temperature restrictions, or even the arrogant presumption that the periodic table of elements is even remotely "complete" all strike me as short sighted. While life on Earth may require these things, and our knowledge of elements is fairly well formed for our own solar system, what's to say there isn't an entire string on non-carbon, unknown on Earth elements which function as the building blocks of life on other worlds? While water is Earth's solvent, that relationship is largely based on carbon... so different foundational building block may well equal different solvent. Temperature ranges for support of life are likewise based solely on what we've observed on Earth, while we must base our knowledge on what we know (duh), it seems shortsighted and tunnel visioned to assume that it is distinctly impossible for some unknown manner of life to have formed in a temperature extreme known to be toxic to carbon based life forms.
lco.global...

Hell, none of this even scratches the surface of the potential for energy based life somewhere in the universe. Some of those considered "genius" by society bluntly call the idea ridiculous
futurism.com...

In this video, a fan asks Neil de Grasse Tyson what he thinks alien life might be like. Is it possible that an alien species could exist as pure energy? Tyson explores a potential drawback to energy-based life forms. Comic co-host Eugene Mirman just wants to know if you could eat them.

Mark Eichenlaub, who specializes in physics, also weighed in on this issue:

You cannot isolate pure momentum or pure charge – the idea doesn’t even make sense. It would be like asking for a poem that was made not out of words, but pure beauty, or a balloon that wasn’t made of material, but pure loftiness. (People might use the imagery of “pure beauty” metaphorically, but you cannot literally have pure beauty existing on its own.) The same is true for energy…
In short, there is no evidence that you can have consciousness without a physical matrix for it. “Electricity is the flow of electrons. Heat is matter vibrating incoherently. It all requires matter. There is no energy by itself.”

Ah, but note the discrepancy here. "Electricity is the flow of electrons" Electrons... the subatomic building block of everything around us. That essentially means energy has a matter component, so for something to be "pure energy" does not mean it would be devoid of a matter component, making the "reasons" why a pure energy life form couldn't exist a circular, moot argument. Again, just because something isn't understood or hasn't currently been documented as occurring doesn't mean it is impossible for that something to happen... it just means in our experiences it hasn't been seen, so it is unknown and improbable.

So is it that alien life hasn't existed where science has searched for it, or is science simply not looking for the right things?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I believe there are an infinite amount of possibilities in an infinite universe. Nothing is impossible and everything is possible. To think otherwise is both arrogant and naive.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

You need look no further forward, but backward to the twin Viking missions to Mars in the middle to late 1970s and their "search for life" experiments that were quickly dismissed as fruitless despite the protest of the designer of the experiments that continues to this day to claim that the data was cherry-picked to ignore tell-tall signs of fossil live on Mars.

Actually, NASA had jumped the gun on the preparation of the public for finding life anywhere in space. They wanted a negative answer. They just wanted the public to know that they were thinking and working toward legitimate concerns in that area.

Actually, number two, the twin Viking orbiters found tell-tale evidence of their own on the surface of Phobos which has artificial markings that are indications that it was moved into its close orbit to Mars. They have obscured the easy finding of those images for decades now, and despite repeated missions to Mars they never display such images again. On top of that, Phobos has a lower mass than its girth would predict. That indicates that it has major voids inside which co-insides with it being an asteroid maneuvered into its position and used as a habitat.

--I know, wild words all, but do your own serious research and leave the interpretations of "anti-UFO scientists (and government) out of your thinking.

Well yea... She almost won the Presidency..

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: burdman30ott6

I believe there are an infinite amount of possibilities in an infinite universe. Nothing is impossible and everything is possible. To think otherwise is both arrogant and naive.

What makes you think this is an infinite Universe ??

I find it interesting that all the supposed "open minded ones" all cling to the same stories spouted for thousands of years by so-called GENIUSES and ENLIGHTENED ONES.

I hear what you are saying, but this is the same statements made by Avatars who Astral Travel or even have done much more, they actually believe this, whilst being limited by the beings they encounter.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I think we are a bit too carbon-centric in our approach, to be honest, but then again that is life as we know it, so I guess it's only natural.

Our definition of what "life" is depends heavily on this carbon centric approach, does it not? We can theorize well enough about other life forms, but I doubt we would think to look for it in, say rocks.

I don't think we have look very hard for it here on Earth either, to be honest.

Because if it does not replicate in a familar, DNA and carbon based fashion, we just don't think about it as being life.

Now if it showed intelligent behaviour we might catch it, but if it had the behaviour pattern and apparent intelligence of.. say moss.. we would probably just thread on it and be on our way

BT

www.youtube.com...

There were several episodes on the various Star Trek series that dealt with indistinguishable life forms. Even The Outer Limits and others delved into the aspects of different types that would likely escape detection.

Carl Sagan gives a prime example here.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

How do you look for something if you don't know what it is? That really is a huge mystery.

I believe the answer can be found in how we perceive "things", it's always just what stuff reflects, right? Like you look at a green leaf, what colour does that leaf really have? Everything but green, that's why the green waves get reflected and we see it that way.
So if you're talking about looking for something not reflecting ultra-violet, x-rays, light it seems like we are missing something very crucial right? A whole set of electromagnetic waves on frequencies with wavelengths we don't even know exist and we might want to start looking for that. But oh no that's impossible there is any other combination of wavelength and frequency than the few we know. Is it?
Or give up the idea that lifeforms invisible to us could be visually detected at all. But where would that lead to? SETI? Also a huge frequency range issue if you ask me, because of interference with earthly waves....
We're basically blind and deaf if you think about it.

a reply to: ParasuvO

The point I was just trying to make was that we barely know anything in the grand scheme of things and to think the universe, wether Infinite or not, conforms to only our laws is really silly.

There are many things our brains cant comprehend even here in our own planet/dimension/reality so to think we understand 1,234,567,890,XXX (might as well be infinite) is even more silly.

Well, I would be a lot more convinced by all these theories about life being able to exist that isn't based on carbon / water if somebody actually showed me some.

Good lord... "Carbon-centric"... the next thing for folks to get butt hurt riot.. erm.. protest about.


Me?? Nah, I see baffling stuff all the time.. and I have a tad more education than the average Joe. I know the limits of my knowledge.... and I know the limit of what Ive been exposed to for many decades. My mind was blown in the 80's with my first viewing of an electron microscope.. and what it saw on a deceased spider carcass, which is a world unto itself. Its right there, but magically hidden by our own limitations to experience it. I am awed by life all the time... and death. Im also awed we have given up exploring terra...

I can safely say that "life" is a weird thing and I learned how blind I was to the many forms of life way back in the day before remotes and computers that nope... who the hell knows what life CAN be. Whats life of other places can be, be based off of, etc etc. I learned that from the Outer Limits. No joke.. episodes called Corpus Earthling and Cry of Silence.

Yeah, Ive known Im a superior smarty pants idiot for decades. You just havent figured it out YOU are too... yet.

ETA.. the outer limits thing... I was young and it was the first time my thinking had been challenged by anything before... that life as I understood it wasnt necessarily all life possibilities. I realized it sounded like I meant the Outer Limits was a series of documentaries.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Even if alien life is remotely similar to our own, there will be a human tendency (amoungst some) not to consider it "evolved enough" to warrant respect. We already have an entire wealth of biological life aboard our own planet, that we are already aware of, and the large majority of humanity pays it no mind as possibly being "intelligent life".

*cue outbreak of Animal Right Activists, Vegans and Vegan Sympathizers*

So far as "alien" life is concerned, there are concepts such as Douglas Adam's humorous hypothesis of "a super intelligent shade of blue". So we'd really be starting off on the foot of whether or not the "alien" in question had the ability to (or desire to) communicate in a fashion we could bluntly understand as a form of direct communication (or attempts thereof).

*cue outbreak of New Age Eclectics*

I know this all is probably painfully obvious to anyone in the serious realm of Exo-Biology, and there are no shortages of Biologists and Botanists who do their best to enlighten the masses as to the wonderful world of our home planet and it's varied inhabitants and their varied methods of non-verbal communication, but I seriously believe there will only be a small margin of peoples to make first contact with Exo-Life simply because they have such a narrow definition of what constitutes Life Worth Respecting and Preserving.

As to whether or not we have been "looking in the right places" I firmly believe the answer is all around us, we're just too preoccupied with the wrong specifications for what constitutes "alien".

Most people immediately think Little Green Men or Greys, others Lizard or Cat people, or some variant of the humanoid physique. Others are more bent on looking for microbials or other types of fozzilized evidence offworld....oddly enough, all of which MIMICS life we know on Terra.

Leave the Super Intelligent Shades of Blue for the more open minded to postulate.

*cue Gifted Children, Nonverbals and the Average Wistful Daydreamers*

Call me the sort who believes all the answers we require on this field of study are already here on our little Terrestrial globe.....and many going extinct every day due to the carelessness, arrogance and shortsightedness of the Dominant Life Forms herein.

*cue Environmental Activists*

Heck, for all we know you're right on the mark and subatomic particles may have consciousness....which is one reason the Higgs Boson was so elusive for so long, it just wasn't interested in talking to us until the time was right. Observer effect and all that, maybe it sensed peaceful intent and said "what the heck, hows it goin'?"

After all, stranger things have happened.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Beautifully written. I have always found it suspect that astro-biologist's only look for carbon based life in the so called Goldilocks Zone. For so long they kept saying that RNA was just junk.

so for something to be "pure energy" does not mean it would be devoid of a matter component, making the "reasons" why a pure energy life form couldn't exist a circular, moot argument.

Great argument - of course it is circular. I will say this - I have seen how energy can be manipulated to affect my life - the key being intent in manifesting my needs. All done in my backyard under the moon. Sure its anecdotal, but it works for us.

If you start off with a fixed mind only looking for evidence to support your leanings then science does humankind a disservice. Fear of being ridiculed or having grants withdrawn has that effect on scientist's who after all are human and need to feed their families.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Larry Nine - The Intergral Trees
en.wikipedia.org...

The story occurs around the fictional neutron star Levoy's Star (abbreviated "Voy"). The gas giant Goldblatt's World (abbreviated "Gold") orbits this star just outside its Roche limit and therefore its gravity is insufficient to keep its atmosphere, which is pulled loose into an independent orbit around Voy and forms a ring that is known as a gas torus. The gas torus is huge—one million kilometers thick—but most of it is too thin to be habitable. The central part of the Gas Torus, where the air is thicker, is known as the Smoke Ring. The Smoke Ring supports a wide variety of life.'''

Plot setup[
Twenty astronauts aboard an interstellar "ramship" colonized the Smoke Ring five hundred years before the story begins. Their descendants have adapted their cultures to the free-fall environment. Without gravity, even those who live in integral tree tufts are much taller than Earth-average humans, having grown up in much weaker tides.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Peeple explained an aspect of "how do you look for the phenomena if you don't look outside the filters of our perception"

Like you look at a green leaf, what colour does that leaf really have? Everything but green, that's why the green waves get reflected and we see it that way.

Lol... funny thing, I was watching "The Martian Chronicles" and toward the end the Martian and Rock Hudson are communicating or chatting both occupying different times separated by vast amounts of time, but in the same location. Time and dimensions will no doubt play a part at some future time as understanding grows.

Throw in infinitely small and infinitely large.... my mind's not that strong, I'll wait for the movie.....

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Nope....cause it/they/them have always been right here and we dont see them or understand what to even look for......

Then there is Dragon's Egg. Cool story.

Dragon's Egg is a 1980 hard science fiction novel by Robert L. Forward.

In the story, Dragon's Egg is a neutron star with a surface gravity 67 billion times that of Earth, and inhabited by cheela, intelligent creatures the size of a sesame seed who live, think and develop a million times faster than humans.

Most of the novel, from May to June 2050, chronicles the cheela civilization beginning with its discovery of agriculture to advanced technology and its first face-to-face contact with humans, who are observing the hyper-rapid evolution of the cheela civilization from orbit around Dragon's Egg.

So who knows what flavor of "life" is out there.

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: burdman30ott6

I believe there are an infinite amount of possibilities in an infinite universe. Nothing is impossible and everything is possible. To think otherwise is both arrogant and naive.

I used to think that to..but if that was true
Somewhere someone would have made a event that destroyed the universe us along with it.
But that have not happen, so that kind of rule out infinite possibilities.. no ?

a reply to: Peeple

The problem with this reasoning is, if something's colored UV or IR, it doesn't become invisible, it's black, or some shade of gray, depending on the albedo.

It doesn't become clear.